Iareawesomeness extras for the week of 4/18/09

Hey everyone,

Ibi wrote the breakdown post again this week and EroSennin did the Bleach post from offshore, that’s how F**king Bleach crazy that guy is! You have to respect that.  I’ll be returning to Naruto duty next week, and I thank Ibi and Ero very much for saving my ass these last couple weeks, getting me through mid terms; they both did an amazing job. Ero will probably be doing Bleach on a semi regular basis from now on while Ibi will continue to be used like the dirty whore that she is… ^_^ (Everyone knows I’m joking, so please don’t kill me later >_<)

You will not understand the IRA manga strip this week if you haven’t been in the chat room.  This is the beginning of the the Guest story arc ^_^

Enjoy the extra’s this week!


i are awesomeness chapter 008

i are awesomeness chapter 008


This weeks iareawesomeness demotivational poster...

This weeks iareawesomeness demotivational poster...

Bubble Contest

This weeks IRA bubble contest... lets try not to let Trek dominate this week shall we?

This weeks IRA bubble contest... lets try not to let Trek dominate this week shall we?


This weeks iareawesomeness nin debate...

This weeks iareawesomeness nin debate...

Last week Gai got pwnd by Kakashi… I bet Kakashi’s nuts are sore from all u swinging on them so hard… anyway, here is this week’s nin debate.  Have fun with it.  The poll is below, but the winner will be chosen from the poll combined with the comments.  I’ll have the bracket up next week.

Note: Since this battle takes place with both nin at their full potential, Naruto does not have whatever Itachi gave him so that Itachi is at full power when they fight.  Everything else as far as power is current with the manga.


~ by 火影 千手 iareawesomeness on April 18, 2009.

646 Responses to “Iareawesomeness extras for the week of 4/18/09”

  1. FIRST!!

  2. 2nd

  3. 3rd

  4. heheh!!! guest hunting is awesomeness!!!!!!!!

    [1] – “Hey guys, I just realized!! .. I’m a total bitch!!!”
    [2] – “… I knew that A LONG time ago”
    [3] – “… uhh, excuse me.. Who the fuck are you again???”

  6. 4th!yay

  7. A demotivationl poster O_O

    [1] – “ohh!! I have a great idea!!! In between chapters, we can have a threesome!! Dont tell kishi!”
    [2] – “Konan!! You know my lack of body weight has made me sexually impotent!!!! Why do you insist on asking questions like that!!!”
    [3] – “Yeah.. none for me either.. I got someone with WAY bigger boobs waiting for me back in Konoha anyways!!”

  9. Does Konan have a lip piercing?

    Theres a round thing bellow her lip in that pic…

  10. @SCHY – no, that’s a chakra rod! Konan is the last pein body! Lolzz

  11. BUBBLE:

    Kushina: Nagato, we called you here today because we’re concerned…
    Nagato: Is this a fucking set up?! You lying bitches!
    Naruto: Nagato, lately you’ve changed. Look at you’re self. See what the drugs are doing to you! You’re hurting everyone close to you!

  12. KONAN: Emmmm…Nagato? NAGATO:Shut up Konan!I think i finnaly have an erection!yeah baby! Naruto:Emmm…I dont’t think you can call a vibrating rod an erection….

  13. Nin debate is posted…

    @ Schy – yes, and I think that allows her to communicate with Nagato, though she is not a zombie (o_0)

    @ ajd – OMG Konan is Kushina?!?!?! ^_^

  14. OH S**T

  15. @ Schy – why havn’t you gone into the chat with ur new fancy lap top?!?!?!

  16. conspiracy theory?

  17. ROFL @ Guest with bandana and THUG4LIFE tatoo. That really made my day.

    For the Debate, Im going with Itachi. Naruto wouldnt be able to hit Kakashi with his slow but strong attack style. Also, Naruto wouldnt have an answer for Itachis mastered MS.

    For the second week in a row i picked the character I liked less to win. I deserve a cookie!

  18. Err i mean Itachi…not Kakashi. Their names kinda rhyme xD

  19. 1:nagato eat this cheese
    2. you want me to… EAT!!!
    3. not THAT argument again

  20. yayz! The bubbles back!


    Konan: “Hey, I brought some pringles! Anyone want one?”

    Nagato: “No thanks, I’m full…I had one last year.”

    Naruto: “OMG…he has to eat something before I pwn him. Trouble is, he’ll find a way to throw up his food, even if I feed him INTRAVENOUSLY…”

  21. Konan thoughts: Man, I never would have expected this! Must be rinnegans’ final secret!


    Naruto: You are amazingly strong, but Hinata doesn’t love me for no reason! Get ready for the worst One-night-Stand your Skinny ass has ever seen!

  22. …coolbeans? Is that YOU?

  23. 1.nagato are you drunk again?
    2.please konan for the love of god give me a sandwich!!!
    3.ramen… i need post battle ramen

    1.hey its another fatty look at the fatty nagato
    2.naruto go a year without eating KNOW MY PAIN
    3.i… i need…. i need RAMEN

  24. Itachi!! – Reason: Genjutsu, Sharingan, Mangekyou Sharingan, case closed!!!!!

  25. @fobkage
    yes, search your feelings you know it to be true

  26. 1. oh if it isnt the fox kid
    2. no no no its half a fox hes been fixed
    3. well ya but… awwww

  27. BUBBLE

    1. BRB
    2. LOL
    3. LMAO

  28. LOL @ coolbeans…

    @flex – no way…not only is sage-kyuubi more awesomeness than Po the panda, but you gotta remember, Naruto has seen Itachi fight twice now…he has a fairly good idea of the way he fights…whereas Itachi has never fought a Sage before.

    Two, genjutsu works by manipulating the chakra in your opponents brain, right? Can Nature chakra be handled that easily? I would think not…especially if the one casting the genjutsu has never had any experience with it…

  29. HAHAHAHAHHAHA LMAO!!!! XD It’s GUEST Hunting Season! Let’s bust some caps up their asses! 🙂 And the Demotivational Poster…Mmmmmmmmmmm…what was I saying again? 0_0 Awesomeness Jeremiah!!!

    Me? Dominate the contest again? Well I just took a advantage of everyone debating over Gai vs. Kakashi and it wasn’t so hard to tell you the truth. 😉

  30. Bub:

    1. Nagato he is here!
    2. Yes, yes, listen to me cry about my pain.
    3. OH, jeez…all this trouble from “Miss pack’o’post-its”, and a paraplegic Olson twin.

  31. Great stuff! I laughed, I cried, I pretended to do paperwork when my boss was looking. The ‘thug-guest’ is f’n funny.

    @fobkage: the Woo shoo finger hold is impressive, but kinda a close range technique.

  32. Nice Jeremiah – LoL @ the guests and supertrek, Here i thought you would put a screaming IReflex in the background yell “JEREMIAH …. FU*K YOU” (if anyone missed that in the chat room – PRICELESS)

    GOD DAMN IT Jeremiah – you put the ho….kage motivational poster toooo close to the bubble contest – ideas dying …. must think of ….. wait what?

    And if anyone was hideing in the shadows while this debate raged between me and total and to some xtend Tsukaimei (but he died from a salt overdose – steal my pretzels, that’s what you get) ITACHI FTW.

  33. Ohhh and Jeremiah – since we are talking about both Naruto and Itachi at full strength – that allows for Itachi’s eyes to be @ their best just after he got the Mangekyou Sharingan right? (damn i hate saying MS – prob the disease he died from).

  34. @Jeremiah~lol :)Dont i need a password to get into the chat room?
    I never got it sent to me Via PSN. I know you must think im crazy for not going there 😛 …but i just cant get in!!!

    Itachi VS Naruto….i’d say Itachi. We still dont know the depths of Sasanoo’s power. And im asuming it blocks all atacks. Itachi would have made the perfect 5th Hokage i think. But his selflessness allowed him to sacrifice himself to keep his idiot clans name pure. >_<

  35. 1. Is it time to change your diaper again?
    2. (farting sound)
    3. I think I’m gonna puke

  36. BUBBLE:

    Konan: “Principal Nagato. Naruto is finally here.”

    Nagato: “You really did it this time boy! Headmistress Tsunade’s all over my ass! What do you have to say for yourself this time?”

    Naruto:*Pant* *Pant* “I rushed here as fast as I could when I heard the news. I swear it wasn’t me who put the cherry bomb up Kakashi’s ass and I have proof it was my science teacher Matio Gai!…Something about the science of a Dynamic Entry…”

  37. BUBBLE:

    Konan: “Fu*k too much eye liner again”
    Nagato: “Yes, go away and fix that will you Konan”
    Naruto: “Is she gone yet? … Wow that was emo”

  38. @Schy: No need for a password to get into the chatroom man. Just click on the chatroom link or just join the chat on any page you go to. You can’t miss the constant annoying *POP* sound every 2 seconds. >_<

    Naruto vs. Itachi. Naruto FTW because F**K the Sharingan users…did I say that out loud? Lol jkjk, I really think it’s because as we don’t know the full potential of Itachi’s Susano power or when he was at full strength. We also don’t know the full potential of Naruto’s Kyubi + Sage powers. I just think that by looking at the mere fact that the Kyubi PWNS all and adding Sage energy to it would whup Itachi’s ass back from the dead just so he could apologize to his little bro then die again! 😉

  39. BUBBLE:

    Konan: Nagato! Use your secret jutsu!
    Nagato: Konan…finally a useful suggestiong! Puking-up-guts no Jutsu!
    Naruto: You guys are totally…*barf*

    Man…I’m lame. *sigh*

  40. In the bubble contest picture. Naruto looks like he sorta wants to join Nagato and Konan. Konans goth, Nagato is emo, there in a dark place covered by a mutilated tree (paper was once a tree)And Naruto is sorta bowing to them, while Nagato looks like he’s looking down on Naruto. He wants to join there emo/goth club. Somebody make a bubble out of that 😀
    Naruto is even trying to be goth/emo he’s looking at the ground like a goth and clenching his fist-hurting himself like a emo. 🙂

  41. BUBBLE

    Konan: “How …. Amusing”
    Nagato: “Here i thought you could only be depressed, yes that’s the one”
    Naruto: “Says the guy with the eating disorder”

  42. Oh i see “chat room”

    I cant get in it. Vodofone content control is in place and its blocking me from entering for some reason 😦 (why is classified as 18+ 0_o)

    I cant remove content control either…i need a access point, but i cant get one 😮

  43. BUBBLE:

    KONAN: This is my BITCH FACE


    NARUTO: This is my…. aghhh gotta shit!

  44. BUBBLE:

    KONAN: I’m pregnant…


    NARUTO: …Uhm.. no.. I call that JIRAIYA’S LEGACY

  45. BUBBLE:

    KONAN: I am sooo glad Lee-tard, and Suckura are not in this week’s bubble contest.

    NAGATO: Yeah… now you can get raped multiple times, I can be called tickle-me-emo, and…

    NARUTO: Will you both shut the fuck up… in about 2 chapters you’ll both be history

  46. BUBBLE:

    Konan: “What is this some kind of joke?”

    Nagato: “You’ve got to be f**king kidding me!”

    Naruto: “YES! I Naruto challenge you to a Sumo Wrestling Contest! YOSH!”

  47. BUBBLE (for SCHY)

    Konan: “…you…you wanna join? I don’t know…”

    Nagato: “No way…look at you…not nearly emo enough…no cuts on your wrists, no pain in your eyes…you’re still very happy-go-lucky, Naruto.”

    Naruto: “But look! My hair kinda covers my eyes! That’s gotta count for something…”

  48. BUBBLE

    KONAN: “Is it time to change your diaper again?”
    NAGATO: (farting sound)
    NARUTO: “I think I’m gonna puke”

  49. BUBBLE:

    Konan: i cant believe that he has been penetrated like by seven black rods and its still standing!!

    Nagato: Wow!!! and konan had it with only one!!(he has to be mine!!)

    naruto: my a** is still sore from the last stab…didnt think that being a pornstar was so though…

  50. BUBBLE:

    Konan: “5 bucks says he can do it.”

    Nagato: “10 bucks says he can’t and you have to start dieting with me you tubby bitch!”

    Naruto: “Shush, alright here it goes. I’m going to fly off into the sky like Neo from the Matrix!”

  51. Ahhhh, that’s better.

    I am no longer fobkage…IAREDARKAVATAR, bitches!!!

  52. BUBBLE:

    Konan: How long do you think this is going to last, Nagato? I’m so tired of this arc…let’s keep this one short.

    Nagato: Yeah, I know. I don’t think I can last much longer. I think I see light – or am I seeing things?

    Naruto: *Thinking* OMFG! What IS that? If that’s Nagato, he needs to eat something. I can’t wait to get this over with so this arc ends…disgusting!!

  53. BUBBLE:
    Konan: He’s here. Told you it wouldn’t work.
    Nagato: ….
    Naruto: F@ck. Who knew crawling back up the birth canal would be so exhausting!

  54. BUBBLE:
    Konan: Impressive.
    Nagato: *hisssss*
    Naruto: *Gasp* Why to I feel like I just lost my virginity?

  55. BUBBLE:
    Konan: Huh. The kid has moves…
    Nagato: Bitch!
    Naruto: You know Konan, some places would consider us married now.

  56. BUBBLE:
    Konan: See? I told you it wasn’t impossible.
    Nagato: Foreplay?!
    Naruto: Yeah. *pant* Rock. Paper. Hardwood. Cherry. *pant* Didn’t Pervy Sage teach you anything about Kunoichi?

  57. LMAO super, on the bubble!!! matrix references are awesomeness

  58. BUBBLE:
    Konan: The kid worked the latch in one go.
    Nagato: You…didn’t…
    Naruto: Why do I want a cigarette right now? I don’t even smoke.

  59. k…5 innuendo bubbles about Konan’s “tree” and labia-shaped opening oughta cover it. eh?

  60. omg – nice one prawl – “in about 2 chapters you’ll both be history” – CLASSIC!!!!

    ibi – r u submitting multiple bubbles to keep super from dominating??? LOL

    super – he has seen itachi twice and succeeded in beating him exactly 0 times…. once genjutsu take hold of Naruto its over…. the end

  61. 1. food you will eat.
    2. eat i will not
    3. sandwich cheese a ninja desires these not

  62. super – oh and did i mention Susano’o is basically an IMPENETRABLE shield…. what else is there to know about it???? and then that WTF sword of Totsuka Itachi used on Oro…. how can naruto, or even kyuubi beat that????

    This is for Jeremiah, who wants me to cite my shit
    Sword of Totsuka:
    Naruto loosing to Itachi Before: http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/259/11/

  63. got another link of susano’o for you reflex:

  64. BUBBLE:
    Konan: You’re spitting up blood again.
    Nagato: You know I forgot how to swallow.
    Naruto: Soup’s on, bitch. I’m gonna lead you to water AND make you drink.

  65. @flex – that’s not fair…naruto hasn’t beaten itachi yet cos he hasn’t yet faced him while in sage mode.

    Something tells me you know this already, but are ignoring this on purpose cos either you’re trying to get a proper response from us noobs or because you really are swinging on Itachi’s balls this time around…

  66. BUBBLE:
    Konan: Your lunch has gotten cold. Again.
    Nagato: I sucked on a breath mint. I feel bloated.
    Naruto: Yeah? Just wait. I’ve got a sausage for you. You’ll be stuffed.

  67. BUBBLE:

    Konan: “Pein, life is pain”
    Nagato: “Did you mean Pain or Pein?”
    Naruto: “Its Pein not Pain, isn’t it? Fu*k now I’m confused”

  68. @fob: Yeah but itachi hasn’t used his Mangekyou Sharingan on him either. Nor the many other fire jutsus that make his RasenShuriken useless.

  69. @ DarkAvatar – my point is, itachi has unbeatable techs and Naruto sucks vs. Genjutsu

  70. whoops

    @darkavatar: Yeah but itachi hasn’t used his Mangekyou Sharingan on him either. Nor the many other fire jutsus that make his RasenShuriken useless.

  71. @felx – agree

  72. @flex – (Point of clerification) i agree with you. itachi well theres no one he doesnt hurt when they fight…. other than ero but as we all know ero is all but a god

  73. I don’t know about Susano’o as unbeatable…it seems to take up a heap of chakra and severely weakens the user. Kinda like the lotus.

    Sorry for the lack of cut and paste, guys, but check the manga again, Chapter 393 page 2.

    If Naruto can dodge Totsuka (kage bunshin no jutsu!) and outlast Itachi with his awesome chakra pool – I believe Kakashi said Kyuubi/Naruto had 100x his own chakra – he can make an opening for a well-placed FRS or even just a Fuuton: Rasengan.

    In regards to Naruto sucks vs Genjutsu, did you read my earlier post? If not, I basically said that genjutsu manipulates the flow of chakra in an opponent’s brain, thus Itachi having no experience fighting a Sage, would have difficulty manipulating Nature Chakra.

  74. avatar join the chat room

  75. @Darkavatar: True but naruto can’t control the Kyuubi – so genjutsu will still work on him

    Also why would Itachi have to manipulate Sage chakra to use his genjutsu? As fukusaku said, sage is a balance between natural, spiritual and physical makeups of chakra – so itachi would only have to manipulate 1 of these for his genjutsu to work – and it would dissrupt the balance between the 3 types and naruto would theoretically lose sage mode.

  76. @Darkavatar: True but naruto can’t control the Kyuubi – so genjutsu will still work on him

    Also why would Itachi have to manipulate Sage chakra to use his genjutsu? As fukusaku said, sage is a balance between natural, spiritual and physical makeups of chakra – so itachi would only have to manipulate 1 of these for his genjutsu to work – and it would dissrupt the balance between the 3 types and naruto would theoretically lose sage mode.

  77. Sorry for the double post

  78. if it requires heaps of chakra to use, then how did Itachi manage to use it after the long battle he’d already had with sasuke???? must not take than much, since Itachi had already used Tsuykomi AND Ameratsu against Sasuke!!!

    About sage mode – True, sage mode is very strong, but naruto can only use 2 FRS’ per sage mode. If this is the case, it would be hard to fight Itachi for very long before running out. Sure, you could say that “he could summon more sage clones” – but the only reason he had clones to summon vs pain was because he knew he’d be fighting pain before the fight – if this was a random encounter, naruto would be fucked concerning sage mode – as soon as he was knocked out of sage mode, Itachi activates Tsuykomi – game over

  79. @Mudshovel – genjutsu alters the flow of chakra in the brain in a very precise way, so that the brain misinterprets the information it is being fed by the nervous system and from the other four systems. Sage mode adds an extra chakra type to the mix. There would be sage chakra inside his brain, otherwise Naruto would not be able to connect with it and manipulate it. Thus Itachi, while casting a Genjutsu over Naruto, would need to manipulate the sage chakra inside naruto’s brain, along with the rest of the chakra inside, to fully put Naruto under his illusion, which would be difficult as itachi has no experience with sage chakra.

    Normal genjutsu wouldn’t work, as a sage is not a normal person.

  80. @Mudshovel – genjutsu alters the flow of chakra in the brain in a very precise way, so that the brain misinterprets the information it is being fed by the nervous system and from the other four senses. Sage mode adds an extra chakra type to the mix. There would be sage chakra inside his brain, otherwise Naruto would not be able to connect with it and manipulate it. Thus Itachi, while casting a Genjutsu over Naruto, would need to manipulate the sage chakra inside naruto’s brain, along with the rest of the chakra inside, to fully put Naruto under his illusion, which would be difficult as itachi has no experience with sage chakra.

    Normal genjutsu wouldn’t work, as a sage is not a normal person.

  81. Oops, double post. Sorry!

  82. IMO – Itachi is the ultimate counter to ALL of Naruto’s abilities

    Fuuton Rasen Shuriken – countered with grand fire ball + other fire techs + ameratsu
    Weakness to Genjutsu – Amazing at Genjutsu + Tsuykomi
    Multiple shadow clone jutsu – Sharingan
    Sage mode – Ameratsu (LMAO)

  83. @darkavatar: however what we are talking about here is all theoritical seeing as it hasn’t happened (obviously), we must also take into account that Itachi has reached the pinicle of genjutsu illusions (as stated in the naruto data book 3

    However unless kishi has stated otherwise (i don’t think he has) what’s to say that sage chakra is more difficult to dissrupt than normal chakra in the brain? Okay, you can say it has made naruto stronger physically etc etc, but that does not mean that he is more resistant to Genjutsu in sage mode, than he is normally. Naruto has always been depicted as terrible against genjutsu, so how does adding sage chakra, make him better equpped to handle it?

  84. **theoretical

  85. BUBBLE:
    Konan: It’s impossible kill Nagato !!!
    Nagato: Yeah, you can’t kill me !
    Naruto: Why should I ? You’re half-dead from starvation anyway…

  86. BUBBLE:
    Konan: Laxatives are not a major food group.
    Nagato: Like I’d take diet advice from you, Pig.
    Naruto: Yeah, well, you are what you eat, Nagato. It’s all making sense to me know.

  87. BUBBLE:

    Konan: He withstood your black rods of Pain.
    Nagato: Impressive.
    Naruto: My f*cking legs are shaking, man! I can’t take it anymore! F*cking take it out already, before i shit myself!

  88. BUBBLE:
    Konan: I’m so bored…
    Nagato: Hungry…
    Naruto: OMG! These two…it’s like fighting a pair of Sai’s mice.

  89. BUBBLE:

    Konan: “Nagato … don’t”
    Nagato: “I want your answer”
    Naruto: “yes that tampon does make you look fat”

  90. BUBBLE:
    Konan: He’s here, at last.
    Nagato: Naruto…
    Naruto: *Pant Pant* I finally did it. Took me forever, but I never stopped running and now…. I’m seeing the inside of a vagina!

  91. dammit!! i really should read the other posts b4 i do my own… sound like a copycat now… -_-

  92. bubble
    1)Come to think of it why are u so skinny nagato?
    2)Sorry no spoilers for my secret jutsu.
    3)Now i now why the preta path is so fat

  93. Itachi all the way.No offence but naruto cant even break out of itachi genjutsu what are the chances of naruto winning

  94. @mudshovel – you know what? Forget it. I don’t know enough about sage chakra to comment on whether it could cancel genjutsu.

    @flex – ummm…yes he did use Susano’o at the end of the fight. Then he walked to sasuke and died. I will say it again, quoting chapter 393 page 2 as my reference: Susano’o requires a massive amount of chakra and severely weakens the user.

  95. Alternatively, Kishi said in an interview that Sasuke is no match for Naruto with his current abilities. Sasuke can do all that itachi can, perhaps even tsukuyomi and Susano’o.

    So if Naruto can whoop sasuke, then why not Itachi?

  96. their fight was pre-sage mode training…pre knowledge of naruto’s lineage (i think he’s become a better ninja after his meeting with Yondaime) in reality i think that because of naruto’s kage bunshins (if used correctly) he can stay out of a genjutsu…they might be even(ish) in ninjustu, itachi has Katon jutsu, esploding clones, and MS’s moves but naruto has rasengan’s variety (oodama, futon rasengan, rasenshuriken)and summons…naruto probably has the edge in taijutsu (mainly because we havent seen much of it from itachi, and because naruto has sage mode’s natural energy expanding his aura)…experience? naruto is unpredictable so itachi should throw the book out the window…it’ll do him no good. As for susano…everyone thought that orochimaru’s wall was impenetrable but the four tails proved that wrong…imagine a 6 tails unleashed against that thing…but the blade is where things get interesting…it could conceivably lock away kyubii…things would get tight in this matchup, but i believe that ultimately naruto could pull this off

  97. susono ends every debate or tech


    itachi pwns naruto

  98. Bubble contest
    1) Such immense strength…

    2) This is unheard of!!!!

    3) Thats right – only one hand… And once I find a place to set this invisible boulder your both in deep trouble.

  99. @ Avatar:
    first off – itachi’s skills are different from sasuke – itachi has skills that cater more toward naruto’s weakness – i mean – he is a master genjutsu user WITHOUT the sharingan whereas sasuke… isnt

    secondly – sasuke HAS THE ABILITY to use Tsuykomi and Susano’o BUT he has yet to FIGURE OUT HOW to do either!!!! Itachi does, so….

    thirdly – Sasuke killed Itachi as part of Itachis grand master plan… remember Madara’s monologue about the the beginning of time or w/e and shit like that???? He also said somewhere in there that it was Itachi’s plan to have sasuke kill him so he could transfer his power.. i can find the link if you want?

    fourthly – Itachi didnt die from lack of chakra due to susano’o. well not susano’o ALONE… he died because
    a) – he wanted to die so he could ‘help’ sasuke
    b) – he gave some of his power to naruto and was already weaker than normal
    c) – JUST BEFORE he died he transferred some of his last power/chakra to sasuke with that gay forehead poke

    if he were to use susano’o right off the bat, it would be over instantaneously

    oh and this is just a thought – what if the susano’o is like a summoning… would it be able to sustain itself after being summoned??? ex. jiraiya’s toad – it takes chakra to summon them but once that is done they fight with their own energy…. is susano’o the same way???

    @ drosensei – naruto wins in taijutsu? against sharingan? really?!?! sage chakra may extend his reach, but itachi wouldnt let naruto come close to him
    oh and susano’o isnt impenetrable???? it took a direct hit from an incredibly powerful, inhuman lightning bolt and didnt falter…. i doubt its a false assumption (it being impenetrable) — well at least to 6-tails… MAYBE 8 could break it

    Oh and no one has answered the question – what does naruto do about the “2 FRS per sage mode” thing…. how does he beat that

    AND YES, i am, once again getting too “in to” this debate… ahhh hell – idc – i wanna win again 😀

    damn this is gonna be long…. WAIT!!!!!!

    Ix ReFleX xI – 😀

  100. 1 last question??? does fox mode count if naruto doesnt control it??? if its based on abilities NARUTO has, then 6-tails is out of the question because NARUTO DOESNT control it….. meaning susano’o really is impenetrable, MEANING naruto is fucked!!!!!

    lmao – success!!!! LONGEST POST GOES TO ME!!!!! (above)
    and i am officially out of the debate now… i did my part *TAG-TEAM NO-JUTSU!!!!!* – i summon… JEREMIAH!!!!!!!

  101. @reflex: lol, i agree dude but you forgot d) he was sick with a disease and was prolonging his life with medicine to fight with sasuke

  102. @ mud – lol really? thats sound made up but vaguely familiar… link please??

  103. @reflex:okay – give me a bit – gotta go through a bit of manga

  104. @reflex: this is on narutopedia

    It was said by madara – so i guess i’ll look through those chapters till i find him saying it

  105. horray Itachi fans. Prove of Itachi Beating Naruto

  106. @reflex ahh found it (comment before this is still waiting moderation)

  107. lol damn – i completely forgot that!!!! MUAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!! NARUTO LOSES, ITACHI WINS!!! NOTHING YOU GUYS OR SUPERTREK SAYS CAN CHANGE THAT FACT!!!!!!

  108. BUBBLE:
    Sorry, I made a mistake earlier so I’ll write it again 🙂

    Konan: It’s impossible to kill Nagato !!!
    Nagato: Yeah, you can’t kill me !
    Naruto: Why should I ? You’re half-dead from starvation anyway…

  109. @flex – good thing you’re out of the debate dude, cos you’re killing yourself with your own arguments. Now let me bury you, once and for all.

    1) I would ask you to post a link to a page that says that Sasuke cannot use genjutsu without his sharingan, but you and I would both be wasting our time. Drop that point.

    2) we have not yet seen enough of Sage mode to say for certain that Naruto would be pwned by genjutsu. I would say that – given the amount of times Naruto has encountered Itachi – Naruto knows enough to not look into Itachi’s eyes, and not look into his ring…if he is wearing it.

    3) If Susano’o is a summon, where’d it go after the fight? Why’d it just disappear? It’s a technique, and in case you all missed it, chapter 393 page 2 (damn I get sick of quoting the same page over and over), Zetsu says pretty clearly, “That Susano’o technique carries a huge risk,” while Itachi proves his point by coughing up his entire digestive system nearby. Regardless of whether itachi planned his death or not, whether died from his illness or not, can anyone, given the evidence on that page, refute the fact that Susano’o costs much chakra, and severely weakens the user? Don’t bother putting your hands up, because I’ll bloodbend them back down again and slap you with them for the waste of energy.

    4) taijutsu vs Sharingan. Baka. Sharingan can see the movements of an opponent before they strike, but even if itachi blocks a punch, Naruto’s Nature Aura will still knock him over.

    5) 2 FRS’s were important when Naruto fought pein because he was fighting against 6 opponents. 1 FRS will end Itachi. 1 shadow FRS will set it up.

    6) WTF? 6 tails is out of the question cos he can’t control it? What’s wrong with you son? Just cos be can’t control it, does not mean he cannot use it.

    And this chapter has shown that he can now control the Kyuubi’s chakra. Did you miss the whole Sage-Kyuubi thing?

    It’s good your gone…now bring on someone who can actually debate your guys point.

  110. Sorry for the loooooooong post!

  111. @DarkAvatar: Hmmm, this could take awhile

    1) agreed that point is dropped

    2) True we haven’t seen enough of sage mode to dtermine much about it, but remember itachi is extremely skilled genjutsu user so i find it hard to believe that sage mode would give him much difficulty. Also can Naruto last the whole battle not looking into Itachi’s eyes? i doubt it. heres a link that will prove it
    Take note of what Asuma and Gai say – “you are the only one who can do that”, “A method is needed when fighting someone just by looking at their feet”
    I doubt naruto has learned this – Eat Tsukyomi.

    3) True Susano’o is a technique, but you must take it to account when he used and the condition he was in, he was sic with a disease and was prolonging his life with medicine
    He had given naruto a jutsu of some sort and was not trying to kill Sasuke. He was merely trying to draw Oro out in the fight.
    True it might take a bit of chakra, but what if he used it when he was in perfect health, and with 100% Chakra level? I once again doubt it would knock him over quickly

    4) Why would Itachi give naruto time to get into sage mode though? True he might not even know of the existance of senjutsu, but he does know of the kyuubi, and could assume that naruto is trying to draw out the fox (he wouldn’t let that happen) If it was a planned encounter – i think Itachi would pick up on the eyes. True he might get an ass kicking by the nature aura, but the there is a huge risk in getting close to itachi, as kakashi commented on the fight against itachi the first time – his seal speed is extremely fast … exploding bunshin.

    5) If he was useing susano’o that combo would be useless – if not – wouldn’t he just use some Katon style (fire) to stop both comming close to him?

    6) Most of naruto’s transformations need a bit of time before he can attack – Amateratsu. Also as sasuke proved – the sharingan can stop the kyuubi from takeing over – surpress it, what’s to say that Itachi’s eyes could not have done that at their best?

    And fair go – sage + Kyuubi mode – its power hasn’t been shown at all – baseless.

    Also comparing their stats from the NDB 3 – Itachi has naruto trumped in all stats except stamina.

  112. woops, didn’t think that it would be that long XD. Sorry

  113. naruto would be practiacally owned and pwned again and again by itahci

    1–tsuyomi–genjutsu owns naruto
    2–amretsuri—-ninjutsu most powerfull
    3-susono owns allllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

  114. BUBBLE

    Konan:In every job that must be done
    There is an element of fun
    You find the fun and snap!
    The job’s a game

    And every task you undertake
    Becomes a piece of cake
    A lark! A spree! It’s very clear to see that…

    Nagato: A Spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down
    The medicine go down.

    Naruto: Can’t hold back….the evil Poppins genjutsu is to strong…must resist breaking into choreographed dance.

  115. @mudshovel – damn you!!! Eck…more fighting…

    First off, I assume this matchup happened under the same circumstances as gai vs kakashi. Chuunin exam style. Naruto would be in sage mode before he entered the arena.

    In regards to fighting while staring at his feet, that is gais way of fighting. Not only that, but it’s pre-shippuuden! No way that’s still valid to say Naruto couldn’t last without looking into his eyes.

    And I have to disagree on the chakra issue and susano’o. Again, Zetsu said that Susano’o carries a huge risk. This implies massive chakra drain, and physical exhaustion.

    Naruto can throw shadow FRS’s forever. If itachi was to block them all with Kaaton style jutsu, he would burn through his chakra.

    Itachi can’t control Kyuubi like sasuke can’t control hachibi. Jinchuuriki control over their bijuus prevent this.

    Any questions?

  116. Ahsan you backstabber!!!!!!!!! LOL

  117. BUBBLE

    nagato:ya god damnit you can do it
    naruto:shut up bastards let me concentrate toucing ur own ass isnt that easy u know

  118. Why have I no backup…='(

    …GAH!!!!!!! ILL TAKE YOU ALL!!!!!!!

  119. ahmmm dark avatar

    uchiha clan has gr8 chakra banks naruto can do frs only in sage mood(that is without damagaing himself and really good ones)and that too only two so

    susono owns all
    and naruto will be fu**** by tsuyomi

    naruto didnt last a sec in simple genjutsu so tsuyomi will own him

    and even if he breaks free susono owns alllllllll

  120. and right now u are getting owned

    come over to the right side

    come to usssssssss

  121. BUBBLE

    konan:no chance

    nagato:no but maybe but no but maybe but nooo

    naruto:yes im gonna shoot lasers out of my eyes

  122. Ahsan, I hereby disqualify your heinous remarks as they aren’t even written properly.

    Uchiha chakra bank = good

    Naruto chakra bank = unbeatable

    And Shadow FRS is different from normal FRS.

  123. BUBBLE

    konan:now nagato

    nagato:take this youuuuuu *laser launches from from his wheel chair of doom* “”LASER OF DOOM””


  124. And if they did qualify, I would dismiss them as they do not take into account anything I, flex or mudshovel have said.

  125. mr dark

    no matter what you say

    ur precoius naruto cant stand genjutsu in which itachi is a master

    and furthermore susonooooooooooooooo ownssssssssss allllllllll

  126. srry but i wasnt here and i cannot read all of the comments so ill start newly

  127. Again, with that susano’o crap. I won’t even respond to that.

    No one said naruto could stand genjutsu. But he can avoid it.

  128. Don’t start “newly”. It’ll break the flow of this debate.

  129. ok now im seroius


    if you remember correctly itachi has great speed right

    and he only needs to put a spot of his body such as a finger on naruto to trap him in genjutsu

    itachi said it himself while fighting naruto kakshi sakura and chiyo

    so evenif you forget susono (which owns alll)

    naruto simply cannot avoid genjustu

  130. What with genjutsu Dark Avatar. lol. and to your above post ……

  131. @darkavatar: lol and it continues …

    True we can’t say for certain if he learned to fight with gai’s style, but we can’t say he has. note against a 30% Itachi standard genjutsu, he couldn’t break it, so could he break Tsukyomi with sage arts? Doubtful as Itachi said that only a sharingan of the uchiha blood line could hope to defeat it.

    But we can only take what zetsu saw at face value – he only saw that technique used once, when Itachi was drained and messed up a bit, and being such a strong technique, using it when you are drained would mess Itachi up even quicker – but if he was useing as i mentioned above (100%), it shouldn’t take such a massive toll from him.

    Can he throw them forever? He has to at least make it look like a FRS – hence there would be a bit of chakra wasted for the facade, but wouldn’t the sharingan see threw his deception anyway? If he was to smoke bomb the area around him – Itachi wouldn’t be stupid enough to stand infront waiting for a jutsu.

    I didn’t say control – but sasuke could surpress it before it took control over naruto, why couldn;t itachi do it? ttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/309/04-05/
    Also Naruto can’t control the kyuubi which also makes him somewhat vulnerable to genjutsu.

  132. good point mudshovell if itachi suppreses the kyubi narutos chakra would not be unlimited even if naruto has learned to fight gai style

    remember i said above itachi can cast genjutsu by aven one finger toucing the opponent and his peed is so great that he can easily touch naruto

  133. srry

    i mean


  134. BUBBLE

    Konan: Time for the final step in Nagato’s plan for world domination, GIVE US THE CUDDLE… fish… I can’t do this…

    Nagato: IGNORE ME!

    Naruto: The village was destroyed by you two? Wow…the ninja in my village suck.

  135. BUBBLE

    konan:noooooo dont kill me killl him(nagato)

    nagato:i dint kill jiraya she did kill her

    naruto:wats happening….. hey wait a min this is a genjutsu nooooooooooo

  136. GAHHHHH!!!

    OK, look:

    No one said naruto can fight like gai. But that comment was made pre-shippuuden! Don’t tell me that now after his mastery of sage techs, his fusion of sage & Kyuubi chakra, his fathers resetting of the seal, his control over his bijuu, that naruto would look into his eyes, or his ring, knowing full well what it would do to him?!?

    Rinnegan could not see through shadow FRS, how come sharingan can?

    Again, sasuke could not suppress Hachibi cos Killer bee had control over it. Why should Itachi be able to suppress the kyuubi?

    SageKyuubi Naruto has access to kyuubi’s practically unlimited chakra bank. He literally could throw them forever

  137. BUBBLE

    konan: hey nagi (nagato) he is really far more clever than his villages intelligense

    nagato: nooooooooo we are dead !! he is clever and is doing a really cool, pose

    naruto: really i look cool …wait till i show this pose to hinata…

  138. @Ahsan – please, call me Avatar.

  139. okzzzzzzzzzzzzz

  140. @Darkavatar: lol we seem to be going around in circles

    If i remeber correctly, naruto did the shadow FRS in the smoke screen to Pein, so he couldn’t see it at all, i was implying that if he didn’t use a smokescreen the sharingan would see through it and if he did Itachi would haul ass.

    Again (lol we really are going nowhere lol) naruto doesn’t have complete control over the kyuubi, however killer bee does have control over the 8 tails. (i do agree that he is slowly controlling it more but still not at killer bees level of control)

    Susano’o would put a stop to those forever SFRS lol, or a well timed Grand Fire Ball, or a … this is going nowhere.

    can’t really be f’ed debateing this much longer – hopefully some more ppl will enter it soon to raise points that we haven’t thought of.

  141. Hmmmmm…I know!

    *inhales, exhales*


  142. Hmph…didn’t work…ah well, he’ll come soon.

    I agree mudshovel. I’m calling it a day.

    But I still win. My avatar is awesomeness lol and it is for that reason that I claim victory!!!

  143. Lol – curse you not SUPERTREK … wait he’s away hunting guests right? *looks around nervously*

  144. Over ITACHI’s dead body …. wait bad example

  145. No, mudshovel, that was a GREAT example…mufufufu…

  146. BUBBLE

    Konan: You’ve got some peanutbutter on your face AGAIN, Nagato…
    Nagato: Huh, where?
    Naruto: [sigh] Jesus Christ! What are you? Five?

  147. BUBBLE:

    Konan: “it’s oviously gonna be naruto”
    Nagato: “No Itachi FTW”
    Naruto: “where the Fu*k is supertrek when you need him?”

  148. BUBBLE:

    Konan: You’ve got the most powerful eye technique in the entire freakin’ world and all you can come up with is stabbing people? Give it up already!
    Nagato: NEVER!
    Naruto: [sigh] The village got destroyed by HIM? He’s in a fucking wheelchair for crying out loud!

  149. bubble:

    Konan: Now I have you in my invagination-no-jutsu *scratch, scratch*

    Nagato: Wha! You…You mean…All of us…inside?! No wonder you’re all depressed.

    Naruto: Jeez, *pant* you see the crabs outside?! *pant* I mean, they’re the size of a Buick!

  150. BUBBLE:

    KONAN: I’ll stop him! BOUNTY-NO-JUTSU…


    NARUTO: HEY! Stephen Hawking! I was gonna spare you, but your abuse towards women stops NOW!

  151. BUBBLE:

    KONAN: I know this is a bad time, but seriously… your blood-red hair… you look like ronald mcdonald.



  152. Okay, seems like it’s time for a fresh voice in this debate …

    About Naruto pwning Itachi with his sage mode, aren’t you all forgetting that sharingan can see a person’s chakra?
    Knowing this, it would seem most plausible to me that Itachi would see Naruto’s sage chakra and do either the following: 1) be able to use that information to set a genjutsu trap Naruto would fall into, thus disturbing and breaking him out of sage mode, or 2) be smart enough to use clones until Naruto’s sage chakra was used up.

    As for Susano’o being Itachi’s trump card … well, I’m on the fence about this one. Yeah, it’s a super powerful (and as far as we know) unbeatable technique, but with Naruto’s ability to produce a thousand clones it leaves too many openings. Susano’o is a defensive jutsu/ability, much like Kankuro and his puppets, so I would think getting up close would be an easy way to take care of the fight. Key phrase here is “I think”, so unless Kishi tells us how exactly Susano’o works, we can’t know if it’s a truly impenetrable shield/wall or if it only works against long range attacks like the one Sasuke used.

    Having said all that, my vote went to Itachi for this fight because when it comes down to it he has more fighting experience, and while that doesn’t guarantee victory, it does go a long way toward helping a person win. Plus, Itachi uses people’s emotions to make them make stupid decisions – we’ve seen this repeatedly against Naruto and Sasuke. Add to that his fighting style, which is always calm and measured, and I’d say it gives him the upper hand.

    Of course, if it were up to Kishi, Naruto would definitely win … this is his manga, after all ^_^

  153. @ darkavatar –
    now time to trump your counter-arguments (again – sorry mud)
    1) – I’m not saying sasuke can’t use genjutsu… im saying he isn’t a LEGENDARY MASTER of using it like Itachi. Itachi became famed for his use of genjutsu… did Sasuke????
    2) – regular genjutsu may not work, but as soon as he looks in to the eyes, TSUYKOMI BITCHES!!!!
    3) – The ‘susano’o’ being a summoning was just a thought, and not a valid argument……… if you’re gonna assume sage mode voids genjutsu, then why can’t I assume susano’o COULD be a summoning like the frogs??? — again though i say this – my point is, if he uses susano’o right off the bat!!! its over!!!!!
    4) – mudshovel stole my point
    however – in the case of naruto already being in sage mode i have this to say…. if he’s in sage mode, how long will he last before he gets knocked out??? — the second he goes out of sage mode, basically all of your arguments are usesess (genjutsu, taijutsu, sage/kyuubi mode)
    5) – Fire element techs – wind is weak to fire, so when naruto launched FRD, hit it with a fire ball and watch naruto panic
    6) – as i already said, if 6 tails is used, it becomes ‘kyuubi vs Itachi’ NOT ‘Naruto vs Itachi’, like the whole fight here is about… about him controlling kyuubis chakra???? still un-seen so therefore void

    Avatar – i have yet to see you provide one DECENT argument that isnt based off completely unknown assumptions – ie: sage mode disrupting genjutsu, naruto controlling kyuubi etc.

    provide me links that proves these ever happened and we’ll see

  154. elfarren – the susano’o is an ultimate sharingan defense…. i doubt it has a single weakness of “a bunch of people walking up to the user” <—– LMAO

    and if it were up to kishi – naruto would be rescued from genjutsu by sakura…. AGAIN!!! LMAO!!!! naruto you weak bastard!! LOL

  155. BUBBLE:

    Konan: Hey Nagato*chuckles*, what if he mixes his Kyuubi- and Hermitmode?
    Nagato: I can see KERMIT MODE, LULZ!
    Naruto: Wow.. an anorexic pincushion and a papercut fetishist cracking nerdy jokes at my expense.. Note to self: never enter broadcasting-emo-treehouses though pussy shaped doors again!

  156. BUBBLE

    1. eh? nagato, whats wrong with the naruto?
    2. (to konan) seems like he saw this weeks iareawesomeness demotivational poster!
    3. (gasping) …ho…..hokage…..

  157. BUBBLE

    1- Mmmm…the big black rod…
    2- Prepare to feel Pain!
    3- The Pervy Sage Secret Sodom Technique! Not again…focus…there is no shiny pebble on the ground…dont bend…

  158. Alright it’s true that susano’o was able to block that insane technique by sasuke but it seems that itachi would use that as a last resort, not right at the beginning due to chakra drain/side effects…as for genjustsu, what’s to say that naruto wouldnt have kage bunshins help him escape? or if not that…he could call upon kyubi chakra to disrupt his chakra flow, it wouldnt even have to be any tails, it would be enough to effectively get him out of genjutsu because Kyubi chakra is vastly different than his own. As for sharingan vs sage mode naruto’s reach is extended, any block you try would still hit the target, itachi would be forced to doge most of them, and all that dodging is both physically draining and would leave him off balance. Naruto is also more resistant to damage and his power is increased, so even one hit could swing the fight in naruto’s favor. Itachi’s Katon techniques may also be stopped if naruto is in kyubi mode.
    naruto did this only partially drawing kyubi chakra, he didn’t even have any tails yet.
    @ darkavatar I’m with you on this one…so you’re not alone…lol

  159. BUBBLE:

    1. Skill challenge vs. Will
    2. Roll d20
    3. Come on lucky die. Aw, critical failure.

  160. BUBBLE:

    Konan: Lets pray he doesnt have scissors!
    Nagato: Or some Weightgain4000!
    Naruto: Well i got RASEN…. oh well.. BRB!!

  161. @ dro – thats why we’re saying IF itachi used susano’o at the beginning

    oh and he has alredy been trapped by genjutsu twice, and has yet to avoid genjutsu either time…..

  162. @ Reflex: Okay, maybe I should have been a little more specific … when I mentioned 1,000 clones, I meant attacking Itachi, not just walking up to him (though that would be pretty hilarious!) *L*

    I was talking about this in the chat room, and while Itachi was using Susano’o, we never saw him attacked in hand to hand combat*; therefore, saying he’s impenetrable is only proven true when he’s being attacked with a weapon or jutsu, thus leaving the possibility Naruto could hit him with a clone.

    *Please keep in mind that I’m only playing devil’s advocate here when I say Naruto could approach Itachi in hand to hand combat (and that’s if he was able to get past totsuka, which I kinda doubt).

  163. For Naruto vs Itachi thing..

    We all know that Naruto has allways been bad against genjutsu. But now he has learned sage mode so his chakra control must be a way better than it used to be, sage mode requires very good chakra control.
    So isn’t genjutsu like controlling chakra in opponent’s brain? I think that Naruto would now be able to stop genjutsu with his better chakra control.

  164. *POOF* *looks around bored* Who summoned me? *Notices Naruto vs. Itachi debate*…Oh, I’m so in on this one! I got your backs Drosensei and Avatar! Naruto FTW!!! 😀 Now just give me a moment to destroy those weak arguments Reflex and Mudshovel put up. Lol, jkjk… 😉

  165. And btw that IRA manga really made me laugh xD

  166. BUBBLE:
    Konan: Bud
    Nagito: Wise

    k bobs, itachi would win b/c naruto cant get out of his genjustu, proven thing, just deal.

  167. bubble

    1 : where the fu*k is that blond kid..?
    2 : gaaah gwk .!!@@#@#@#%$ oooohhh!!!
    3 : now that iv gotten into his crack… i just have to make a thousand clones and see the fireworks …!!! BWUUUHAHAHAHA!!!

  168. oh no… supers here and he’s gonna back naruto up!!!! lmao… really??? lol

  169. lmao elfarren – imma just kidding with you… i knew about totsuka NO WAY naruto’s gonna get by that

  170. @Reflex and Mudshovel: Ok I’m now going to point out the issues you two have so diligently picked over.

    1.) Naruto is weak against Genjutsu

    …Since when? Oh yeah, I remember that back when Naruto Pre-Sage training was weak against Genjutsu…in the PAST. Yeah I remember that…but we’re not talking about the past we’re talking about here and now with both of them at full strength and at their CURRENT level. Can you really say we have no proof that added Sage Energy wouldn’t help Naruto defeat Itachi’s genjutsu? Here are some of those viable links.

    ttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/259/10/ (If you use more power to disrupt your chakra flow, you cancel the genjutsu) Hmmm….more power to cancel the genjutsu…here Naruto give it a try would you! ttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/259/11/ Awww, dammit Naruto you failed! If only…if only you had some other incredible source of power to draw from now to cancel out the Genjutsu. You were weak in the past but what do you have now that…Ah, now I remember you not only do you have Kyubi chakra but you have SAGE CHAKRA.

    “Use more power to disrupt your chakra flow, you cancel the genjutsu.” (The great Sage and Sanin Jiraiya)

    BAM! Your proof that Sage Chakra not only could help fight Genjutsu but would also make Genjutsu harder to use on him. If you don’t understand that please just read MrTukka’s comment above mine before responding for even more proof of the advantages of Sage Chakra against Genjutsu.

    2.) @Ashan: Please tell me where in the manga it says that all Itachi needs to do is “touch” someone to put them under genjutsu. I would LOVE to see that link.

    3.) The big bad Susano.

    I’m not going to even debate the fact that Susano takes up a heap of chakra because Avatar has already proven that to you’ll with the link to what Zesu said about it. Sick or not if a technique takes a lot of your chakra…well then it takes up a lot of your chakra! Nuff’ said!

    About it being impenetrable. To what degree? As far as we know it’s only blocked what…Sasuke’s explosive tags and a weak ass lightning strike? Yes the lighting was strong but can you really compare it to the destructive force of the Kyubi…the Nine Tailed Bijuu? Don’t even try because there is no comparison. The lighting Strike is more like a Lighting Spark compared to the Kyubi chakra. Overall I would like to see this “impenetrable” Susano block a full blown Chakra Blast from a 6 tailed Kyubi. 8 tails is just overkill. The lighting Strike was more like a lighting spark compared

    4.) Speed, Taijutsu, Ninjutsu

    Speed- Sage mode and not to mention that just One Tail greatly increases Naruto’s speed ttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/229/06/.

    Taijustsu- Frog Katas! Just look at Preta Pein’s face for reference. 🙂

    Ninjutsu: Pffft! Are you kidding me? Naruto’s FRS which IS a wind technique will be countered how? Fire? What? Is Itachi blowing fire out of his mouth going to “put out” the FRS? LMAO, that doesn’t even make any sense. What makes fire strong against wind is that wind adds fuel to the fire. So if Naruto throws a FRS at Itachi and Itachi does some fire technique on it a flaming FRS will come out of the other side slicing AND burning Itachi’s ass in half while the fire technique will expand from the wind provided and Naruto gets the hell outta the way.

    Itachi uses Amaterasu instead on Naruto but Naruto makes clone first. How will he tell the right one apart and try not to waste his chakra? Answer: He can’t! Naruto makes PERFECT Kage Bushin clones eve since the age of 12. Byakugan can’t even tell the difference and it’s all about seeing chakra!

    5.) Anything else because I’ll be glad to touch up on it [insert dirty joke here] 😉

  171. @Reflex: Oh, and I almost forgot….

    “and i am officially out of the debate now… i did my part *TAG-TEAM NO-JUTSU!!!!!* – i summon… JEREMIAH!!!!!!!” (Reflex)

    *A Couple Posts Later Between Avatar and Mudshovel*

    “@ darkavatar –
    now time to trump your counter-arguments (again – sorry mud)” (Reflex)

    Wow! A man that can’t even keep his own word…how could we trust anything you say. Sounds like a bunch of BS to me. Lol! 😉

  172. @ reflex
    yea but your using examples from before his maturity (pre jiraya’s death, sage training, reading jiraya’s book, meeting with Yondaime)…yes he was trapped in genjutsu in the rescue gaara arc, that was pretty much the first time he fought him…the reason he was trapped was because Itachi was able to cast the genjutsu with his finger…who expected that?! The second time he knew what he had to do…use kage bunshins, the only problem is that he used them already to try to attack itachi
    If i remember correctly its common knowledge in the shinobi world that once a ninja knows how another one fights, the fight is pretty much over…naruto has seen itachi TWICE before, he knows what he’s probably going to try to do…capture him in a genjutsu at the start…while you can use the same argument for Itachi…Naruto has vastly changed since their last meeting…sage mode and more analytical abilities
    as for the risk of susano’o…
    that is directly from the jutsu itself…when he coughs up blood
    that is probably from the strain of the fight along with Itachi’s illness…
    Itachi would know better than to use such a draining jutsu at the beginning of the match…since Susano’o is too much of an unknown in terms if limits we cant say how the outcome of the match would go with him introduced so early. Itachi’s Tsukuyomi can be avoided either by not looking in his eyes or using smoke bombs, Tsukuyomi is directly correlated with Itachi’s eyes…not like the other illusions that he seems to be able to cast by other means. I don’t think that he’d be caught a third time with the knowledge he has now…

  173. @Reflex: One more thing since no one seems to be able to counteract my argument. 😉 I’ll direct this at Mudshovel too since I know he may have something to say about this too.

    “as i already said, if 6 tails is used, it becomes ‘kyuubi vs Itachi’ NOT ‘Naruto vs Itachi’, like the whole fight here is about… about him controlling kyuubis chakra???? still un-seen so therefore void” (Reflex)

    That’s like saying if the Sharingan is used the whole fight will be about Naruto vs. Sharingan and not Naruto vs. Itachi!

    LMAO!!!XD That’s absolutely unfair! Take away Naruto’s Kyubi in this fight and we’ll have to take away Itachi’s Sharingan! I don’t want to hear the Itachi was born with it and Naruto was given it argument. Not only is that obvious but it’s not like Naruto raised his hands and voluntarily sealed the Kyubi into himself as a baby. He might as well have been born with it but he wasn’t. Close enough in my opinion. They’re both powerful tools and weapons utilized to win battles.

    And about him controlling the Kyubi’s chakra. This is him in the Chunin exams…I wonder how long ago that was. ttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/103/18/. Able to control the Kyubi then…able to do it even better now. Use it if you got it! 😀

  174. NO!! my retort didnt show up! well the gist was that the examples reflex gave were before the maturing in naruto (pre-jiraya’s death, pre sage training, pre reading jiraya’s book, and pre meeting with his Dad)…also tsukuyomi wouldn’t be a factor now that naruto uses smoke bombs, and has fought him twice before…tsukuyomi is directly correlated with itachi’s left eye…he has to look into it for it to work…he cant just cast it by other means like he does with other illusions…

  175. lmao super it was 4 in the morning when i said that, but darkavatar pissed me off too much

    uhhhhh counter argument time…….

    1) – Tsukomi
    2) – all he needs to do is point
    3) – we have yet to see that happen so we dont know who would win – susano’o or kyuubi
    but, as i pointed out twice – if naruto goes kyuubi, its no longer ‘Naruto v Itachi’ since naruto ISNT IN CONTROL … its ‘Kyuubi v Itachi’, so he gets DQ’d
    4) –
    Speed: itachi’s faster when naruto isnt in kyuubi mode
    Taijutsu: dodge.. not that hard
    Ninjutsu: naruto has 2 frs’ before ‘bye bye sage mode…’ Oh, and dont forget itachi has sharingan so he can use hunderds of jutsus… like kakashi

    countered in half the space!! … i can make better counters in double the space if necessary????

  176. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/393/02/
    risk of susano’o
    @ supertreck89: my invisible post beforehand had most of those things outlined…but not as enthusiastic as yours…lol. It seems like it’s Fobkage/you/me against the world here

  177. oops i meant darkavatar not fobkage

  178. reflex u seem to disregard everything i say…i already said what happens if he tries to dodge…naruto doesnt need to be in kyubi tail mode to be fast, hell he could even be sage mode and still be faster…as for itachi’s ninjutsu…no tail naruto was able to stop a katon jutsu by sasuke with pure chakra

  179. LMAO!!! That’s your counterargument? Alright, I’m going to go eat so I’ll give you a chance to write something more substantial. Here I’ll give you a Reflex counterargument.

    1.) Wrong! Read Drosensei’s post.

    2.) Okay what’s your point…that’s still not touching.

    3.) Wrong again. Read my above post.


    Speed- So all Naruto needs to do is use Sage Mode or Kyubi Mode to kick Itachi’s ass right? Ok! 😉

    Taijutsu: Can’t dodge chakra aura!

    Ninjutsu: All he needs is one. 🙂

    No, next time use quadruple the space to counter my argument. Also use quadruple the time spent on your counter post before hitting the ‘submit’ button ok? See you after dinner. 😉

  180. @ super – one difference. sharingan is a skill.. a tool, and the kyuubi is like having a whole other person helping you fight… a person with ungodly chakra, and insane attacks. naruto in 8-tail kyuubi mode would obviously win, but then again, it nearly beat the 4th fucking hokage in 9-tail form so it really isnt fair comparing naruto AND kyuubi against Itachi….. thats a no-brainer

    if this is KYUUBI vs itachi .. itachi loses
    if its NARUTO vs Itachi LIKE IT’S SUPPOSED TO BE .. naruto loses
    simple as that

    @ drosensei – i dont argue with you cuz your argument arent as good as supes

  181. @ super
    1 – what??? tsuykomi is an insane genjutsu. it can make 3 days in genjutsu land go by in a matter of seconds! ask kakashi!!!! No time to escape it!!!
    2 – i was simply saying that to defend ahsan
    3 – read MY above post
    4 – taijutsu – chakra aura isnt unlimited, and itachis sharingan would be able to pick up the range of that aura…
    speed – kyuubi??? only argument????? really???
    ninjutsu – what about the 2 FRS limit…. he misses both its over… no more sage clones like v pain

  182. @reflex:
    ouch that hurts…and what exactly makes my arguments worse? i give proof…i use facts…i counter what you say…but you disregard it, maybe you cant find any proof to counter…so that’s why you dont respond and just play my posts off as a noob trying to fit in, but in reality i’ve been countering everything you say and you have yet to do it for me…u r all tsukuyomi this, and susano’o that but don’t base your opinions in fact, it’s all hearsay …i’ve been a reader here for a long time…never really felt the need to join because whenever i was thinking something someone else would say it…then chat was introduced directly on the site…and i thought it was about time i join so i could talk to you guys…so listen here flex i dunno why you think that you shouldn’t take my posts seriously but your ignorance is quite astounding for someone who i actually respect as a poster/admin…

  183. @ dro – my goal… pwn super… you can argue with mudshovel all you want… i aint stopping you

  184. Problem with skin discoloration?

    Feeling blue inside… and out?

    Getting killed by kunai and called a noob?

    For all that and more: Guest X

    Apply guest-x twice daily. Side effects include rasengan boils, perverted rash, and IP death. If you have a problem with addiction and are pregnant, check with your doctor and see if Guest-X is right for you!

  185. but im arguing with you…

  186. my debate is about naruto vs itachi…not an argument with mudshovel…I say naruto wins, but to those who think otherwise i try to give them proof to see it deeper than just sharingan vs kyubi…you seem to side with itachi on this one…so i try to counter your arguments but its very hard to start a debate when there’s someone who refuses to even take you seriously

  187. immma busy as it is. i dont want to stop enjying my fun-filled day of gears 2 to argue you mane

    im going to list all of itachi’s advantages…. sure, you can find a weakness to all of them, but EVERY technique NO MATTER what has a weakness, so dont counter all of them thinking you won… naruto’s can be countered too….

    hundreds of jutsu
    Insane genjutsu already
    Sword of Totsuka
    decent speed, intelligence, and he’s calm

    dont bother finding weaknesses to show me up either. i know EVERY tech has a weakness.. im simply listing the numerous advantages he has. pretty hard for naruto to overcome ALL of those, but w/e… have fun

  188. @flex – maybe it’s just cos I’m tired, but your arguments aren’t making sense.

    Kyuubi vs Itachi? You serious?

    …oh, that’s right! When Neji fought Naruto, Kyuubi won! WTF dude?

    Don’t tell me Naruto cant control Kyuubi now…I posted earlier on the fact that the SageKyuubi fusion has to be the most impossibly amazing display of Chakra Control mastery as they are – by their very natures – complete opposites. Sage chakra requires absolute stillness of body and mind, Kyuubi chakra is triggered and driven emotionally. If this doesn’t display his control over his bijuu, what does?

    @elfarren – love your screen name first off. LOL anyways, experience Itachi has, sage kyuubi experience he does not. You gotta remember, the addition of sage chakra to a person makes him completely different from anything itachi has fought against before. Almost like a whole new type of person! Experience counts for very little in this matchup.

  189. LMAO!!! XD I might sit back on this one just to see the Dro argue with Reflex! 😀

    …Nah, Reflex needs to learn a lesson. 🙂

    @Drosenpai: Don’t worry about Reflex’s attitude towards you. He has a problem with anybody not bending over for Kakashi and Itachi and taking their sharingans up the ass. >_<

    @Reflex: Now back to our debate.

    1.) As Drosensei said,

    “also tsukuyomi wouldn’t be a factor now that naruto uses smoke bombs, and has fought him twice before…tsukuyomi is directly correlated with itachi’s left eye…he has to look into it for it to work…he cant just cast it by other means like he does with other illusions…” (Drosensei)

    This is why I told you to read his post! Naruto just avoids looking into Itachi’s left eye and no Tsuyokomi. Also if Naruto uses Kage Bushins Itachi may put clone #241 under Tsuyokomi rather than the real one. Can he afford to expend chakra that way?

    2.) Let’s just drop this one because the plain fact is Ashan is just wrong until proven otherwise.

    3.) Okay I read YOUR above post. Seems like you want to take away a power source from Naruto. Fine, let’s take away Itachi’s left eye and his ball sack so he can’t spread his infected seed. Fair enough?


    Speed- Nope not just Kyubi but Sage too. I admit Itachi is faster than Naruto at his regular form so why would Naruto stay his regular form? 😉

    Taijutsu: Okay he can’t extend the aura of the Sage Chakra as far as we know but he CAN extend the chakra of the Kyubi. Not only that but it’s fast as hell so that even the Sharingan has problems keeping up with it. Add that with Frog Katas and get massive PWNage!

    Ninjutsu: If he misses both is just an assumption. As is, if he hits with the first or second one. Naruto’s not going to be throwing FRS’s outta the blue. He always has some unpredictable plan to make sure his move makes contact. He knows his limit.

  190. BUBBLE:

    Konan—-> He’s Here…

    Nagato—> What’re you gonna do…cry? I destroyed your village…killed your teachers…You gonna move?..crybaby?..

    Naruto—> Fuck you…I’ll show you what its like to REALLY shit yourself you BULIMIC MOTHAFUCKA!!!

  191. @ super – kyuubi vs anything is a no brainer dude…. its not a source of power… its a guaranteed win!!!! what is so hard to understand about that????

    my standing
    Naruto vs Itachi with no kyuubi – Itachi wins
    NAruto vs Itachi WITH kyuubi – Naruto wins…
    the end

  192. Bubble:

    Konan: Nagato..

    Nagato: I know. It’s him.

    Naruto: So..its Nagato is it…I’M GONNA STICK YOUR OWN BLACK RODS SO FAR UP YOUR ASS..*breathes*…that they’ll come out your fuckin’ fishlips…get ready motherfucker….*Pulls out Proctological Gloves*..*Smirk* hehe..Know Pain ASSHOLE!

  193. @flex – now that’s just snobbish. Your arguments are junk, and your so stuck up that you won’t except an argument from anyone else bar super? Man…so what is it? Itachi giving you sexual favours behind the scenes?

    @elfarren – let be rephrase that: Itachis experience matters little. Naruto’s experience with Itachi make him more likely to win.

  194. he’s the only one who has good arguments – not a bunch of random, unfounded assumptions

  195. @Reflex: The debate is NOT Naruto (minus the Kyubi) vs. Itachi! The debate is simply Naruto vs. Itachi! Here are the rules:

    “Since this battle takes place with both nin at their full potential, Naruto does not have whatever Itachi gave him so that Itachi is at full power when they fight. Everything else as far as power is current with the manga.” (Jeremiah)

    “Everything else as far as power is current with the manga.” So that means Kyubi+Sage Eyes and if he has that then that means he can draw and use the Kyubi as a source of power…which it is! If he can use and draw the Kyubi as a source of power then the Kyubi is apart of the battle just like a Summoning or Natural Energy. Both of which are also external sources of power to be drawn upon and used in a battle! I don’t see you arguing against those though. It’s all fair though in a fight. Use it if you got it! If you’re admitting that Itachi would lose to the Kyubi then you are ultimately admitting Itachi’s defeat to Naruto. Here are your exact words in fact,

    “NAruto vs Itachi WITH kyuubi – Naruto wins…” (Reflex)

    Good enough for me but I’d rather see you put up a healthier battle.

  196. @flex – that’s lame bro. Dude, your outta your league with super. Your outta your league with Dro. Go down and plot with ahsan…

  197. @ flex
    now i will list naruto’s advantages instead of finding weaknesses for your arguments
    Huge Chakra pool as it is
    Rasengan and that it requires no hand signs
    Kage Bunshin and its ability to learn at the cost of no physical damage along with being able to henge them
    Rasengan’s variety (Odama Rasengan, futon rasengan, etc)
    Futon Rasenshuriken
    Sage Mode (these include frog katas,the enhancements to his jutsus/physical attacks, and damage resistance)
    Kyubi chakra
    Ability to heal very quickly
    now listen here flex…nowhere and i mean NOWHERE does it state that itachi has used his sharingan to learn hundreds of techniques…if we base this solely on what has been in the manga, in my opinion Naruto wins hands down…you cant assume things that you know nothing of. now then the real issue was itachi vs naruto not a squabble between me and you…

  198. @Reflex: Please stop being so condescending to the other members of iareawesomeness! They have put up valid arguments which you have chosen to ignore and I have found helpful in my debate as sources in Naruto’s defense. Their arguments are as valid as mine so if you really want to take this debate seriously you’ll have to address ALL of us rather than being picky in your responses.

  199. BUBBLE:

    Nagato:I haven’t crapped in years…
    Konan:…..this would be a little more attracting if it wasn’t a conversation between Dingus and no Wingus….

  200. super – like i said… kyuubi vs anyone is unfair.

    i mean, no matter what i say, all you have to respond with is “use the 8-tailed kyuubi” and the argument is over…. whats the point of that super??? scared of a challenge??

  201. Awesomeness…if only naruto could use KUCHIYOSE NO JUTSU: SUPERTREK TECH in his fight against itachi…no way he’d lose…lol

  202. I really don’t get you flex, you act like you know everything, but in reality you base your facts on personal opinions and very little on actual facts…I wouldn’t mind it that much but your attitude is what gets to me…i like having debates but when you disregard my opinions and say that they’re not valid even though i provide proof…i get a little ticked off when he says that i’m random and unfounded where i obviously put down sources…if you want sources here are some more for you
    itachi using tsukuyomi for the first time in the manga (look its his left eye)
    read it…it says eye contact is required…and that pain/idiocy is what made them open their eyes.
    now as for itachi’s moves…the ones that have been seen in the manga
    boom move list…
    look i dont wanna turn this into bad blood in between me and you reflex but i dont really agree with the way u say that im unfounded and random when i base them solely on facts…so look i have no problem with you personally but when it comes to disregarding my views…thats where i have a problem

  203. btw flex…i have never used the excuse of 8 tails…i have given you naruto as naruto…not naruto as kyubi…i have put down instances where he can use it to get out of certain situations…but i never said that he should use it from the start…you don’t respond so i don’t even know how to debate with you anymore…*sigh*

  204. still not talking to you…….

  205. @dro – buddy don’t worry about it any more. I’m ignoring flex as his arguments are random, unfounded, and consistently destroyed time and time again.

  206. @Reflex: I’m not going to bother arguing against the fact that using the Kyubi is an advantage! But that’s the whole POINT of an advantage you’re supposed to use it if you’ve got it! Itachi uses Sharingan because it gives him an advantage to win a fight and so does Kakashi. Tsunade uses the advantage of her insane strength and medical ninjutsu knowledge. Orochimaru uses the advantage of his freaky regenerative abilities and Sasuke uses his advantage of…the Sharingan. But do all of these ninjas win on advantage alone? NO! They’re suberb ninja (SASUKE TOO) who are SANE enough to know to use their advantage and strengths in battle to overcome their opponents when needed! Hence, Naruto using the Kyubi. It’s as simple as that.

  207. u just did flex…lol and thats enough for me…

  208. @ super – advantage???? or instant win???? w/e… i secede….. kyuubi pwns all

    @ everyone else – i’d like to see you argue against kyuubi??? doesnt sound to fun now does it????

    kyuubi vs itachi is like swayze vs anyone… no way ANYONE stands a chance

  209. @ DarkAvatar: Well, be careful when you say that Naruto’s encounters with Itachi would give him the upper hand, because that street goes both ways if you know what I mean. Itachi would have learned just as much about Naruto’s fighting skills during those encounters, so who’s to say which one would gain the advantage? I was speaking more in reference to the fact that Itachi has been fighting in wars and on missions since he was 4 years old (if memory serves me correctly) and that kind of tactical experience can’t be learned in a few short years no matter how much training a person has. Keep in mind, too, that Itachi would have had to go through some kind of mysterious initiation to become a part of Akatsuki (a la Sasori in 271), and I’m sure that was no piece of cake.

  210. @ elfarren
    if you read one of those posts of mine above Naruto has changed alot since their meeting, plus he’s unpredictable…so sure itachi has a basic idea of narutos moves but doesnt know about his sage mode etc

  211. @ dronsensei: Good points, but if you had read my posts above (I feel like I’m starting to sound like Supertrek and Reflex … *L*), you’d see that I already countered that argument because the sharingan can see chakra and Itachi would therefore be able to formulate a plan to avoid or outlast Naruto while he’s in sage mode.

    If anything, it’s your statement about Naruto’s unpredictability that will probably win this debate, because thinking outside the box is what it’s all about *_^ Then again, Itachi didn’t get to be a genius nin by the age of 6 for thinking inside the box, either …

  212. @elfarren
    that is very true

  213. BS, flex. Chuck Norris PWNS swayze! But at any rate, thanks for giving up (finally giving up…)! Now just stay true to your word and don’t come back.

    @elfarren – your first point makes no sense. Itachi has fought Naruto, but not Sage Naruto. Again, I assert that itachi has no experience of sage mode.

    …but I agree with your other experience example. Truly, with the influence of the kyuubi on Naruto, perhaps he would be especially susceptible to taunts and such. But is it really worth it to piss off the Kyuubi? I think not…

  214. Ugh! Don’t worry about it…damn 2G connection…

  215. @ Dark Avatar: *LOL* at the second post ^_^

    My argument that sharingan can see chakra and therefore enable Itachi to plan out his fight with Naruto to avoid his sage mode techniques makes plenty of sense to me, but if you’re not convinced that’s fine too. It’s just a difference of opinion …

  216. @Elfarren: That’s why Naruto would draw on the Kyubi chakra to increase his speed and unpredictability to overcome Itachi’s sharingan. Kyubi+Sage+Naruto Tactics = FTW! NOT just Kyubi which Reflex seems to be pushing!

  217. @dark: watch in what waters you tread my friend, Swayze would have Norris wearing his own beard for a loin cloth….end of argument.

  218. I know, elfarren. I read it after my phone took a full 20 mins to load this page…

    I’m spent. So I’m just gonna stay outta the debate now…unless Flex comes back in LOL I done my time already.

  219. BUBBLE:
    Konan: I told you we needed to post a no boys allowed sign.
    Nagato: Hmpf.
    Naruto: Wh…what is that stench? Like cheap perfume and nail polish…are you girls having a sleep over?

  220. no one took up the challenge of arguing against the kyuubi… surprising……..

  221. lol…Nagato is so emaciated that Ethiopians are sending food to him.

    @Reflex: I know, it’s funny because he has already been beaten at least once.

  222. @Reflex: Oh jeez, are you kidding me?

    @Ero: Chuck Norris wins. Chuck Norris ALWAYS wins! >_<

  223. super… SUPER! Wake the F up, you were dreaming about some crazy world where Walker Texas Ranger stood a chance against the Swayzinator

  224. BUBBLE:
    Konan: Uh…Nagato…? The pizza boy is here…do u have the money?
    Nagato: Konan, really? Does it LOOK like i carry around money in here?
    Naruto: *sigh* Now i’m not gonna get paid-ttebayo…

  225. As if, ero…everyone knows that chuck Norris’s roundhouse kick breaks the speed of light…if the Swayze somehow got through his defences and relocated his beard, all chuck norris would have to do is roundhouse kick him in the face, and his foot would break the time-space continuum…resulting in the swayze getting a boot through his brain before he even had the conscious thought to approach the Man that is Chuck Norris…

  226. @Ero: The Swayzinator? Aw, give me a break! The Swayze maybe can handle Arnold but he couldn’t stand toe to toe with the one and only Chuck Motherf**king Norris!

  227. OK, Naruto v. Itachi…one on one, full power and no back up…hands down it’s Itachi. Why? The conditions clearly state that since Itachi is alive, he hasn’t “gifted” Naruto with anything. That means Naruto will be pwned by genjutsu and/or tsukuyomi hours before he even warms up to kyuubi battle rage.

    Naruto has been shown time and again to have a genjutsu weakness that is his Achilles’ heel. That weakness is precisely Itachi’s strength, and he’s an incredible enough shinobi to know he has to get in the first move before Naruto can wake the kyuubi. We have no evidence to see whether Naruto’s sage mode can detect or defend against genjutsu…so perhaps it’s an error to rely on Naruto’s past experience with that kind of attack.

    Now, provide Naruto with a genjutsu or even sharingan using backup and you just might have a different battle. OR give Naruto whatever crow in the mouth gift Itachi gave him you might have a different battle. It’s possible Naruto could win this, is his sage mode keeps him from falling under genjutsu and MS illusion techs.

  228. @Avatar: LMAO!!! I couldn’t have said it better myself! XD

  229. PUH-LEEZE! Swayze would be spoon’n him on a chair make’n Norris spin vases on a potters wheel, then throw him out of the bar as the Swaze jumps from a plane to steal chucks 401K…

  230. Chuck Norris cries himself to sleep everynight wishing he could be The Swayze.

  231. Spin vases on a potters wheel? PUH-LEEEEZ yourself! The vase shapes itself out of fear!

  232. @ Ibiki Teishi
    when we discussed the matchup this week, things got pretty heated…but somewhere in that gobbledygook we discered that since naruto uses smoke bombs now itachi’s sharingan genjutsu is rendered almost useless…but he still has things like amaterasu etc

  233. @ibi – no way! For starters, Chuck Norris does not cry. Period. Two, Chuck decides the time…its not night time unless he says it is.

  234. Eh? Well I already provided evidence to Reflex and Mudshovel that Naruto’s Sage Chakra can help fight gejutsu.

    “ttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/259/10/ (If you use more power to disrupt your chakra flow, you cancel the genjutsu) Hmmm….more power to cancel the genjutsu…here Naruto give it a try would you! ttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/259/11/ Awww, dammit Naruto you failed! If only…if only you had some other incredible source of power to draw from now to cancel out the Genjutsu. You were weak in the past but what do you have now that…Ah, now I remember you not only do you have Kyubi chakra but you have SAGE CHAKRA.

    “Use more power to disrupt your chakra flow, you cancel the genjutsu.” (The great Sage and Sanin Jiraiya)

    BAM! Your proof that Sage Chakra not only could help fight Genjutsu but would also make Genjutsu harder to use on him. If you don’t understand that please just read MrTukka’s comment above mine before responding for even more proof of the advantages of Sage Chakra against Genjutsu.” (Supertrek)

    As for Swayze! You know what let’s talk real life here. No fantasized right round house kicks from Chuck Norris and no Omnipotent image of “The Swayze” The black belt ass kicking (Chuck Norris) vs. The Pretty Boy Movie Actor (Swayze) BTW, Chuck Norris was also a Movie Actor too so go find your own job Swayze! Who wins? Chuck Norris hands down and “The Swayze” can go mold an image of himself shagging his own dead pride after the battle for all I care! 😛

  235. i agree with ibi… if naruto manages to get the kyubi ready though itachi’s done. ameratsu may be able to save him, but i doubt it

    it all depends on the damn kyubi…….

  236. All I know is Swayze has a new Show, and all Chuck has is infomercials & an eight year old internet 100 list that you know by heart. Pffft!

  237. @Avatar: LMAO!!! Not only that but the only reason why Swayze is shaping vases is because Chuck Norris told him too. If he wanted to cry Chuck Norris would have nightmares that he was Swayze. 😛

  238. Swayze has a new show? Never noticed…I wonder why? I do know Chuck Norris has a franchise of popular jokes, T-Shirts, and Skits dedicated towards him though and will go down in history as a TV and Movie Legend! 😉

  239. chuck norris ftw!!!!

  240. Ahhh…this is great…Naruto ftw…Chuck Norris ftw…does it get any better? Lol

  241. chuck has a ways to climb if he so much as wants to get into Swayze’s shadow, besides Swayze is captain planet…you just can’t beat that

  242. You know who Captain Planet summons for when he needs help? Yeah that’s right. He calls for the Mighty Chuck Norris and he only comes if feels like it. Captain Planet is weak against pollution. Chuck Norris…doesn’t even know what weakness is! 0_0

  243. Ero, you fight a losing battle…chuck norris does not climb, the mountain lowers itself to his level.

  244. lmao darlavatar

  245. Alright, let me put it to you like this: Chuck is a piece of $h^t republican, that sent a letter to Obama asking him to end a women’s right to choose, rather than do what every president before him had done, he has lobbied against same sex marriage, on March 9, 2009, Norris wrote a column for the WorldNetDaily expressing the possibility of Texas seceding from the United States of America, and running for its president….Your guy is worthless & Swayze would fart in his general direction.

  246. ouch, go all politics on us? Don’t matter what he says or does, Chuck will still kick Swayzes ass…fart in his general direction, my ass…the gas would double back on Swayze in it’s haste to get away from Chuck Norris

  247. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLO1YIWQuXE Chuck sucks, Bruce lee FTW!

  248. Well, im gonna try to build a decent argument for the itachi vs naruto thing…

    well first of all, even if sage chakra could help naruto break genjutsu, the sage chakra needed for that will disrrupt the balance within him and take him out of sage mode, which makes him a lot more vulnerable.

    also some comments ago Ashan said that itachi just needed to point a finger to use genjutsu, hes right!!


    that means that as soon as itachi points at naruto there are to options, he will have o use sage chakra to release from the genjutsu, and loose sage chakra, or he’ll be pwned by itachi’s genjutsu.

    Also if Naruto uses Kage Bushins Itachi may put clone #241 under Tsuyokomi rather than the real one. Can he afford to expend chakra that way?(Supertrek)—- Lets remember that sharingan can see the fakes

    Now, Naruto’s thriumph move FRS will carry some danger because, if itachi useas one of his many fire techniches, that fire technich will have grat power because it will benefit from the wind of the FRS

    Sorry guys if there are to many mistakes or confusing phrases, my english is not so good.

  249. yeah he counts on L4’s like you to believe that. Keep on livin’ the lie. Swayze ‘FTW’…as you say.

  250. Also Chuck FTW

  251. Erosenin, I don’t know how to break this down to you but…Chuck Norris IS the president of the United States. Obama is just his Secretary…of State. Even if you voted for the guy we all know who’s really in charge. Hell I voted for Obama…as Chuck Norris’s Secretary of State. And why is Swayze farting on people? >_<

  252. The fart comment is a reference to a great movie that is before your time. That is chucks dream, then we can all live in his little Theocracy. Of course it makes sense that a person who lives by a book of myths & oppression would have delusions of grandeur.

  253. @Noom: No, this is what Ashan said,

    “MR DARK
    if you remember correctly itachi has great speed right and he only needs to put a spot of his body such as a finger on naruto to trap him in genjutsu itachi said it himself while fighting naruto kakshi sakura and chiyo” (Ashan)

    “remember i said above itachi can cast genjutsu by aven one finger toucing the opponent and his peed is so great that he can easily touch naruto” (Ashan)

    He says that if Itachi TOUCHES you with even one finger then you can be put under genjutsu. This is wrong. I already knew about Naruto looking at Itachi’s finger genjutsu trick and since Naruto fell for that once don’t you think he’ll be prepared for it the second time?

    BTW, the sharingan CAN’T spot a fake Kage Bushin from the real one. In fact the sharingan has been fooled many times by Kage Bushins. The Byakugan can’t even spot Kage Bushins from the original body and spotting Chakra and life forms is it’s specialty.

  254. Ok people…I know I said I’d shut up…but I found something to counter the FRS vs Kaaton argument…

    Chapter 333 page 12

    Yamato says clearly, “if you try and beat Sasuke’s Katon jutsu with a Fuuton Jutsu OF THE SAME LEVEL, it will only backfire as a bigger Katon Jutsu.”

    OF THE SAME LEVEL. Bar Amaterasu, does itachi have another Kaaton Jutsu that even compares to FRS? I think not…

  255. Before my time eh? Now why does that sound so….so…ah nvm, lol! 😉 Enough of this. It’s not even Naruto related and if Chuck finds out we’ll all be dead before any of our time is supposed to be up anyway. +_=

  256. FRS vs Great fire ball = utter PWNAGE

  257. well, its not stated if naruto has to see itachi’s finger, maybe just by pointing him he can be trapped in it, or at least thats how i see it.

    Also, i guess youre right about the kagebunshins, but what about the FRS bunshin thing, i guess the chakra seeing ability of sharingan will identify what kind of chakra it is and know if an FRS is real or not.

    And about the touching-genjutsu thing, if he can control someones chakra (thats what a genjutsu is about) from a distance, wouldn’t it be much more easier touching someone???

  258. Hmmm…and how would Itachi know the difference between a fake FRS and a real one??? He hasn’t seen EITHER…

    And about your genjutsu theory…I’m having trouble understanding you. Clarification, please?

  259. sharingan is able to see chakra moving right?

    so i guess thats good enough for him to know if the FRS is real or not
    “The Sharingan’s second ability grants the user increased clarity of perception, allowing them to track and predict the movements and actions of fast-moving objects. This also allows the user to easily recognize genjutsu and different forms of chakra’

    FRS should have a great amount of chakra
    it should have ‘wind chakra’

    And the genjutsu theory, im just saying that, if itachi can manipulate someones chakra without touching them (the way he always uses genjutsu) wouldn’t it be so much easier to control another ones chakra while touching them, he could even force some of his own chakra into naruto to make the genjutsu stronger.

    on another point, it seems sharingan is even able to catch up with kyubi’s speed

  260. LOL this seems to have changed to a Swazey vs Norris debate

    [SIGH] o well back to the debate, time to relise your errors supertrek lol, (i haven’t gone over everyones posts with a fine tooth comb, so if ive missed a point you’ve made, sorry)

    1) Sage beating genjutsu – WTF? are we forgetting Tsukyomi – liaten maybe a sage mode would break out of regular genjutsu but what about the badest motherf***ing genjutsu out their? and are you really suggesting that in Tsukyomi he would have a chance to build up sage chakra? Extremely doubtful – onto your point about not looking into his eyes – 1) smokescreens don’t last forever (or is gonna hide in it? jk) 2) there is no evidence to support that he has learned Gai’s way to fight the Sharingan – why? because Gai is the only one shown with the ability to do this and Naruto hasn’t been trained by him.

    Also if he is trapped in a genjutsu when in sage mode – that ends all of your BS cause he wouldn’t be able to break out

    2) He might not need to touch someone – but what about when he encountered Itachi in the forest alone – pwned his clones with no apparent effort and caught naruto very easily in a genjutsu, oh and Itachi was a bunshin as well!
    Note: does not need to make eye contact

    3) umm yes you can – the lightning bolt strike was stronger than any chakra manipulated one would have been – isn’t the kyuubi just a chakra manifestation? Since their is nowhere to hint that it would be weaker or stronger – how bout you drop that Super. And are you kidding? the Yata Mirror that refelects every attack
    Menacing ball doesn’t look so menacing now

    4) speed) If Sasuke can surpress the fox, why not Itachi? and sure sage mode gives him an increase of speed – but Itachi’s speed was commented by Kakashi to so fast that his Sharingan couldn’t keep up with it
    Also are you forgetting the main reason to learn senjutsu – so he wouldn’t have to rely on the kyuubi – why do you all assume he’ll just go kyuubi (massive risk to him now that yamato most likely can’t surpress the kyuubi anymore)

    Taijutsu) Umm, Itachi is alot smarter and faster than Preta/pein – also eat Amateratsu or genjutsu – woops you missed (okay that was flawed but his fast seal spped cause easily great a bunshin or substitution jutsu without naruto realising)

    Ninjutsu) Super did you even listen to kakashi when he was explanning the elements (no you were away stalking gai) clearly states that fire pwns wind so FRS = useless and if you really think its that strong – Amaterasu. Umm – the justus efectiveness is decreassed and would be blown back into naruto’s face via grand fire ball

    Amaterasu) Umm why would he have to aim at naruto? If i burns whatever is in its way (example to forrest fire against sasuke) why wouldn’t he just aim at the ground and let it spread? Kagebunshin no jutsu … what they disperse when they touch the ground?

    Have fun with that, we gonna Mortal Kombat this time super?

  261. wow my little comment was so superowned by this

  262. lol noom, yeah .. it took awhile

  263. I’m not gonna fight toe to toe with you anymore, mudshovel…we did that all yesterday.

    But in regards to Great Fire Ball vs FRS, please look at my above post.

    If you missed it, basically YAMATO (not kakashi) said that kaaton jutsu owns fuuton jutsu of equal or lesser power. FRS is WAY above Great Fire Ball. Itachi’s only possible counter is Amaterasu.

  264. Flaming FRS. that’s one nasty technique… Itachi better watch out…

  265. drosensei: the smoke bombs will not cancel out Itachi’s genjutsu. Last time Naruto met Itachi and fell under his genjutsu he didn’t look him in the eye. Itachi makes that genjutsu work without eye contact. I believe that info comes from the source book, but since you buttholes know so much…you can just pretend you know better…

  266. I dont see y amateratsu being the only frs counter is something bad, afterall narutos only technique of that level is FRS so is 1vs1, with itachi winning the encounter

  267. Yea that jutsu is called Ephemeral ibiki

    @DarkAvatar yea, think we stalemated yesterday, so i nod my head to your point but wont say anything in return.

  268. @ mud – where were you earlier!!!!! i got pounded into the ground by super, dark, and DrO!!!! man!!! and i admit – im not all that great at these types of arguments!!! so i got basically raped!!!! GAHH!!!!! ok ok… im back again!!! here we go……

  269. @refelex, yea i read that earlier – i was sleeping

  270. Bubble:

    I’m Konan, the origami girl


    *sigh* these guys are such a let down

  271. Bubble:

    Prepare for trouble!

    Make it double!

    Wait, if you are Jessy and you James, doe that means i have to be Meowth? Damn it

  272. @ mudshovel
    Since Jeremiah said that both are at full power, lets consider what that may mean for both of them
    didn’t give naruto the gift, full chakra reserves, sharingan activated…I dunno how many people know this but itachi’s eyesight is poor after years of MS
    Sage mode activated, 3 clones meditating in Myabokuzan, and full chakra
    When the battle starts Naruto could throw down smoke bombs. From there he would try attacking itachi using clones…gathers info from them and proceeds to attack head on…the smoke, along with itachi’s already weak vision wouldn’t let him see the oncoming attacks…if one of those sage enhanced attacks get through the fight turns naruto’s way…with other types of genjutsu like the one you provided naruto could conceivably use one of the other two types of chakra to disrupt it, he wouldn’t even have to go into any tails mode, just draw out the kyuubi chakra…just as long as the chakra flow is different from his own…
    the one you posted about speed refers to hand seals and throwing weapons…but not directly about his actual speed, whereas naruto is fast throughout…whether in sage or in kyuubi
    Itachi would still have to do hella doging to stay away from the frog katas.
    since you ask why naruto use kyuubi when it carries such a risk…why would itachi use amaterasu with the risk IT carries?

  273. hmm i dont think 3 clones in Myabokuzan count as full power, that would be more like previous preparations.

  274. @ noom oscar:
    when i think of them at full power i think of…
    Naruto: Right as he reverse kuchiyose’d back to konoha
    Itachi: Sitting on the throne as Sasuke walks up to him
    so i dunno, difference of opinion
    @ ibiki:
    i guess i did say cancel out, heh heh…what i mean is without a clear target the genjutsu might not work to its best degree…and if it does then the above post of mine should be able to explain how naruto would be able to get out of it…Tsukuyomi is what is probably cancelled

  275. Yes but Jeremish also said “Since this battle takes place with both nin at their full potential” – Full potential – Give him back hie syes when he just got the MS. Also his sharingan was almost blind when he fought against Sasuke
    and yet he was still able to fight against sauske easily even though his eyes were almost completely white – Genius!

    Ummm – why would he have 3 waiting at Toad Moutain – that was only because he was gonna fight Pein and set up as a precaution. As i said before also, Itachi can cast genjutsu even without looking into the opponents eyes, plus even if he didn’t use genjutsu, you think he would stand infront of the smokescreen twidling his thumbs?

    Umm thats not true – as killer bee said you need to have complete control over the bijuu for genjutsu to be useless (the bijuu disrupts the flow by itself) seeing as how naruto DOES NOT have perfect control over his bijuu genjutsu are still effective. Also as i said – he learned senjutsu to stop useing the kyuubis power because of the huge risk involved with it.

    Umm look at this link and scroll down to his stats and click onto his stats
    His speed is shown to be 5/5 Very Fast

    True there is a risk to the MS but it is in the long term – if naruto loses control of the kyuubi their is no garantee that he can revert to normal quickly – and if he does, he can be serverly injured.

  276. yeah i think full power itachi is not even close to the guy sitting at the throne before sasukes fight.

    hes deadly sick, almost blind, gave power to naruto

    that’s not close to full power, full power is more like

    completely healthy, perfect eyesight, no chakra-sharing-crow-eating stuff

  277. the reason i said kyuubi chakra is because its vastly different than his own…if you change the way the chakra flows genjutsu is broken…kyuubi chakra is VASTLY diffeerent than naruto’s

  278. I am going to take a leaf out of flex’s book and just say it: “8 tails Kyuubi”.

    How can itachi counter it?!?

    Btw, to avoid flaming of my teammates, I’m gonna say this purely from my pov, they have nothing to do with this.

  279. DarkAvatar – just like sasuke did killerbee in 8-tails — ameratsu

  280. @ noom and mud – we’re gonna win this one afterall methinks… as long as dark and DrO keep f**king up supertreks work

  281. lol @ noom’s avatar and mudshovels avatar. Do you guys have matching tshirts and backpacks?

  282. but it seems like jeremiah removed the crow dinner from naruto’s menu…not adding a new pair of eyes from xmas for itachi…full potential in the parameters of the characters themselves…minus one stuffed naruto crow meal

  283. Better question Dark Avatar: how can naruto survive 8 tails? if he goes 8 tails he is ensureing his own defeat as well – sure he would prob kill itachi but he would die as well (continues to 9 tails with no 4th hokage to stop it this time) DRAW.
    Why would naruto do that?
    Thats all i’m gonna say Avatar, i don’t feel like debateing you again (to troublesome)

    @dro: Remember there are many different types of genjutsu, not just letting the opponent dance around in a field playing with shuriken (as he did against itachi), and i be surprised if someone of Itachis talent didn’t know different genjutsu (eg the one Kabuto used at the chunin exams that put everyone to sleep) Personally i think that every time Itachi put naruto into a genjutsu it was to test to see how much he had grown.

  284. Now, now, flex. Don’t go back in the debate…and I won’t. Seriously…Amaterasu…Susano’o…like a scratch on a CD.

    You’re done already.

  285. @DarkAvatar: What you gonna do about it – oohh Avatar mode, please eat Tsukyomi and Amaterau bitch. lol.

  286. Dark – im stating facts with proof this time… and you said “Btw, to avoid flaming of my teammates, I’m gonna say this purely from my pov, they have nothing to do with this.”

    so i decided to answer you….

  287. **Amaterasu

  288. @dark: Also – Noom’s is about how cool Itachis Sharingan is
    Mine is about how Itachi should do shampoo commercials jkjk lol.

  289. *wipes the slobber from his face*

    That was uhhh…quite passionate…just don’t argue with me when your mouths THAT wide open.

    Facts? Dude, several times you’ve posted, and you can’t even spell your guys MS techs properly. You make me laugh LOL

  290. You realise it was a joke right?

  291. LOL sorry buddy, I meant my last comment to be directed at flex.

    We still cool, mudshovel LOL

  292. lol, yeah i was getting a bit confused there.

  293. sorry brother mudshovel…I feel bad now…ok I’ll let you out of your cage now…

    *earthbends walls of cage back to the ground*

    *notices poster falling off, exposing hole in cage*

    Hey! You slippery little-

  294. lol – ohh cr*p must hide, If its a full moon tonight – I’m F’ed.

  295. @Mudshovel – lol Full moon? Pffft. I’m the AVATAR…I don’t need no full moon…

    *looks for nearest tree, or glint of cleaver*

  296. Cr*p, forgot about that lol.
    *stats praying to Roku*
    “let see you beat him … wait you are him! Ahhhh”
    *Runs away*

  297. hmmm…I have a better idea…

    *makes way towards nearest convenience store in search of pretzels*

    (yells out loud): Ever seen a Samoan eat pretzels? Well you’re about too…mufufufu…

  298. LMAO

    *peeks head around corner of store*
    “I attack tomorrow, yes tomorrow *shifty eyes*”
    *hides rusty cleaver behind back*

  299. hey mudshovel! Have you seen F&F yet?

  300. F&F?

  301. Ohh Fast and Furious
    yea – badass, thought it was pretty mad – 2 bad it was like a pelude to the tokyo drift one – i wanted to know who one that last race.

  302. God damn it super was hopeing to debate you but it looks like you’ve decided to get a plane ticket down under and stealth kill me instead XD. O well …. *looks around nervously* *super drops down from the ceiling with sword in hand* murrrrahhhh mu..st.. ge….t.. re…ven…ge…….

  303. thanks for putting me in the comic strip!!
    that was amazingly funny!!!
    i would love to see a flashback scene in the comic strip…

    just like kishi does, a flashback!!!!!!



  304. @mudshovel

    I am back!!! Your salt overdose failed!!!! *Ignores black rods that have suddenly inhabited body*

    @ everyone

    I feel partly responsible for the Itachi vs Naruto debate, so it is only fair that I stand my ground and finish what I started. In terms of pure awesomeness Naruto wins, that is my opinion and I am not going to change it.

    Lets face it, he is single handedly saving the whole of Konoha on his own. He’s doing the job that the Hokage and all the rest of Konoha’s forces could not do together and he is doing it alone.

    Here’s a fact. Itachi (as mentioned in the manga) could not destroy the Uchiha clan by himself so he had aid in the form of Madara. If he couldn’t destroy the Uchiha clan without help, then how would he have taken on the whole of Konoha?

    Pein destroyed Konoha and did it quite easily, to be honest. He only needed a few minutes to recover his power after that and then it was pure ownage again. He defeated the three giant frogs like they were toys and defeated the two toad sages, along with most of Konoha’s military. And that was just god realm doing most of the work.

    Naruto has managed to best Pein (all six of his bodies) now and stop what no-one else could stand against, not even the Hokage. To me that alone show how much power he has and not only that, but also how much he has grown as a shinobi as well.

    Some might claim that Itachi is a genius, but when has that ever stopped Naruto from pulling a fast one. Then there is also his legendary will to succeed and his ability to trump opponents who seem to be far more powerful than he is.

    Say what you like, but in terms of power and ability, Naruto wins. In a one-on-one battle it would be difficult, but Naruto is the stronger character overall.

  305. Yay!!! Another one joins the winning team! We are team DarkDroTenTrek!!!

  306. @DarkAvatar

    Ha!!! I was on the winning team to begin with!!! XD

  307. @NarutoTeam

    1) it’s really different to compare Pein’s ultimate shinra tensei to what itachi did to his clan, i mean pein’s objective was to destroy konoha, itachi’s was just to kill uchiha, if he were to destroy the village i expect him to amateratsu the whole village, and since no one will be able to stop it, its over village down, but as i said, there’s no real way to compare Pein and itachis power, so that’s a whole other debate (it’ll be great to have it next week ^^)

    …Also that super shinra tensei came out of the blue(are guest responsible) no one had time to cover or try to ocunter or anything so…

    2)the fact that konoha lost to pein, that was because of two factors, one, surprise attack with six guys all going total rampage and the Super shinra tensei, also nobody could figure this pein thing so nobody could really combat him, that’s until kakashi who more or less stand against God realm, them Naruto arrives, yes he has a power-up but he also knows how to battle pein, and for the first half of the battle naruto is just going rasengan crazy throwing pein bodies left and right, that’s thanks to the multiple clones he left back at Myabokuzan, and i think those clones are not taken into account in this debate, also even if he has some clones in there, it was pretty difficult to call them back, i dont think he alone can do it in the middle of the battle.

    Another thing, one of naruto’s advantages hre was that he could use his sage chakra in some creative ways, but, sharingan is able to see that so…. it may not be so useful

    Also naruto alone 1vs1 against god realm was not that good of a fight, naruto ended stabbed by pein and he went 8 tails, if that happens against itachi, as mudshovel said it will end in draw. Itachi may be even able to defend against him using susano

    3)Itachi is a genius as you said, and he could probably, with sharingans help, figure out sage mode rather quicly, that’s if sage mode doesn’t end because of naruto trying to get out of a genjutsu because he missed FRS.

    Now, yes we all now naruto’s ability to trump over opponents that seem way stronger, but if it wasnt like that the manga would not be called Naruto right? So u have to make him battle under a fair circumstance were both are meassured ecause of the facts we know, and in that case Itachi wins.

  308. WTH y did that happened????? sorry everyone i dont know wth ocurred

    srry for the quadruple post

    Mod Note: No worries. Dups were deleted. I hate when that happens – Penny

  309. @Noom Oscar

    Stop repeating yourself… stop repeating yourself… stop repeating yourself…

    Ahem! Sorry about that, couldn’t resist. XD

    Anyway, talk about getting your point across. It happened to me too so don’t worry. As for your argument, you have valid points but you must remember that Itachi’s mangyeko sharingan techniques can cause as much damage to himself as it does to his opponents.

    Think about it, in his entire battle with Sasuke, when did he actually get hit directly by his brother’s techniques. I didn’t notice a single time actually. He exhausted himself by using Tsukyomi, Amatarasu and Susanoo. He was fine at the beginning of the battle and by the end he could hardly even walk and he only used each technique once.

    You could say it was because he was dying but he was fine at the beginning. His death was brought about sooner because of the strain on his body.

    That means that if Naruto can avoid those techniques he has essentially won the battle. He has more stamina that Itachi and he can create shadow clones galore, which he has shown to be able to use for very devious tactics. Itachi cannot fight prolonged battles and Naruto’s higher chakra levels give him the edge.

    Itachi simply has to use one MS technique on a clone and he is already at the disadvantage. Think back to the battle against Kakashi and Naruto. He thought Kakashi’s clone was Kakashi and lost the battle because of that mistake. If he uses amatarasu on Naruto’s clone, he will weaken himself immediately and Naruto will only be down by one less copy that he can replace easily.

    As for Susanoo, it is an impervious defensive technique as far as we know, but also one that uses a great deal of power. Naruto can stay back and wait it out if Itachi uses it and once again he will be at the advantage.

    I could go on, but I will wait for a counter challenge to my argument.

  310. @noom, lol that was unexpected. good points though

    @Senshi: damn i thought that overdose killed you grrr lol
    ummmm i can’t realy be f’ed debateing you again, seeing as how we did that in last week’s naruto breakdown. If you realy want to though, [sigh], i will … however didn’t we pretty much cover alot of these points? U think Naruto will win, i think Itachi will win. i wont be changeing my vote, just as you wont.

    Noom and reflex unless Shenshi forces my hand i’ll leave it up to you guys to debate him.

  311. Grr don’t force me to enter this debate with you again senshi … you got this noom?

  312. @mudshovel

    Ah, alas, my adversary has backed away and left me to his companions. But I know mudcleaver will show himself once I have defeated his reinforcements. (and he’ll bring a packet of pretzels just in case…) XD

    Like I said before, in a one on one battle, it is hard to tell, but I think Naruto is stronger overall. To be completely fair, this situation is too circumstantial and thus it is a flawed analysis of either character’s real strength.

  313. Sigh – fine senshi seeing as how you put it like that … BRING IT ON lol – all right. Also strength doesn’t always ensure victory senshi, remember that (it does help though). sooo…

    1) when you said didn’t get hit with sasukes techs, aren’t you complementing him here? His sharingan was almost completely white, yet he was still able to avoid all his techs. thanks for the assist senshi.
    Yes he was sick, he had given naruto a tech (and used a genjutsu on him via bunshin) plus he met sasuke before hand and used a couple of techs their – and that was before the battle had even begun – of course he would have been somewhat chakra depleated, not to mention the genjutsu battle with him before fighing sasuke and still avoiding his techs – very impressive.

    2) Also you made the point about useing bunshins to get trapped instead – a possibility yes but remember – he knows naruto can create alot of clones – when he met him in the forest he destroyed 3 effortlessly and trapped him in a genjutsu to boot, plus Itachi was a bunshin at this stage!
    Also he remarked to kakashi that his timeing of his jutsu were perfect and hence was able to pull it off – can naruto? i doubt it.

    Also as i said before – why would he use amaterasu on just a clone? the only time itachi has ever used amatersu was when he was in trouble – he doesn’t just spam it like the rasengan. Also Amaterasu will burn through whatever the person wants it to – why not at the surrounding battle area instead?

    Umm why would he use susano’o for no reason – everyone seems to be forgetting that naruto has no knowledge of susano’o – he doesn’t know about the yata mirror or the permanent sealing genjutsu sword, so why would he hide from it he never runs away as he claims so often. He has no knowledge of it and will try to beat it – when he cant do that – Itachi wins.

  314. BUBBLE

    Kohan: Look naruto is here.

    Nagato: Naruto! Feed Meeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!

    Naruto: Im finally here. You must be the real pa…What The F@#$?!!!

  315. naruto vs itachi again eh? Sage mode can do nothing against genjistu. Naruto doest have enough control over the nine tails to break free.

    Itachi was taught some things about MS by tobi of all people!!!

    Naruto Beat itachi!!!! Is this some F#$%^ joke!!!! Cmon guys?!!

    Lets not forget the ninetails is prey to sharingan.

    I think amerestu would beat the rasen shurikan just because the wind element only makes the fire element stronger.

    theres my two cents. Now if you will excuse me i must go pwn guest in the chat room. “pulls out shotgun and walks away”

  316. i kind of missed younger naruto… ->
    1.KONAN: Heey, you have something on your pants!
    2.NAGATO: Pfft, Konan, cut it already, this joke is not funny anymore…
    3.NARUTO: Huh?! Where? WHERE?

  317. @mudcleaver

    You forgot the pretzels… T_T

    *AHEM!!!* Anyway, it seems we have ourselves a battle once again. AS you mentioned for Susanoo and Naruto having no knowledge of it, the same could be said for Naruto’s sage mode. The fact is we don’t know if a genjutsu will even work on Naruto, because the chakra from sage mode would probably disrupt it.

    As for Itachi’s timing on his jutsu, the same can also be said for Naruto now. He used the rasenshuriken expertly and with pinpoint timing as well. Not to mention he managed to hide like 100 kage bunshin as rocks against Pein without him even noticing it. Lets not forget that the Rasenshuriken is on the same level as Amatarasu and Naruto even managed to disguise his in the shadow of another one.

    He pwned Pein without sage mode as well, after his rasenshuriken failed to connect, so that shows that even without it he is still a force to be reckoned with. I think that the fact that Naruto can use so many rasengans in succession without even getting tired says something. But it isn’t only that, the way he fights now is smarter and more cunning.

    He is fighting on the level of a genius and fighting against one as well (a person who could master any jutsu he was taught with no problems whatsoever) so that shows ho far he has come.

    @The Incredible Marksman


    Well, we don’t know if Amatarasu is the kind of fire that is affected by wind, so assuming that Rasenshuriken will fail to it is just that, an assumption. It isn’t that hard to believe that Naruto could beat Itachi, because he is a shitload stronger than he was before.

    I mean com’ on, I don’t think that Pein was made the leader of Akatsuki for being the weakest. He as the strongest in that organization, otherwise Itachi might as well have been put in charge, so the fact that Naruto has basically beaten him means that Itachi could also be beaten.

    Everyone seems to assume that Pein is weaker than Itachi, but there is no evidence to support that claim.

  318. Hmmm, its so quiet in here. That must mean that someone is tying up a very long counter-argument to my counter-argument… XD

  319. Tenrai Senshi: I have to agree with you on that last part about no eveidence supporting itachi being able to defeat pain.

    Ok so we dont know if amatarasu is like fire. Ok then. Itachi fire ball can beat the rasen shirkan then. Itachi’s fighting style is completly different the pains.

    Sage chakra replaces your chakra wile in sage mode. Hence therefore still weak against genjistu. But we arnt talking about regular genjistu. We are talking about MS genjistu who itachi said himself if you do not poses sharingan you cannot break free. Unless of course you have a kyubi sealed in you. But seeing that naruto cant control his beast to the extent of breaking ginjistu he is screwd fighting itachi.

    Sharingan can see chakra. Itachi would easily be able to see and avoid the sage chakara cming from naruto sage mode body.

    Amerestu is fire. Just fire that burns fire and cant be put out. I think the wind effect is the same in this issue so Ameretsu pwns rasen shurican.
    Exscuse me spelling cause i are horible spelur and has bad gramer.

  320. @The Incredible Marksman

    Actually, sage chakra shares an equal balance with Naruto’s chakra. If it was only sage chakra, Naruto would turn into a frog, so that is why he had to train in order to learn to balance sage chakra and normal chakra.

    That means that it can probably break a genjutsu, because genjutsu affects a persons chakra flow to the brain and causes them to hallucinate. The addition of sage chakra, which is an external source of chakra, would break that flow, jsut as if someone else was putting their chakra into Naruto.

    Also remember that Bee broke Sasuke’s Tsukyomi as well using his Bijuu to help. In a sense, sage chakra can fill that role as well.

    Also, about the Rasenshuriken vs amatarasu debate, even if Amatarasu can defeat a rasenshuriken, Naruto has other abilities as well, just like Itacki. He could use a bunshin disguised as a Rasenshuriken to get to him just like he did Pein, and if Itachi wastes an amatarasu to stop it, then score for Naruto. Of course this is all circumstantial, jsut like the rest of this debate, so the only way to know for sure is if they actually fought.

    Also, sage chakra connot be detected like normal chakra can, even Pa toad mentions that, so Sharingan can’t see it either. Otherwise the Uchiha would go blind every time they turned on their sharingan. (it is natural energy).

    That is why Naruto had to train to be able to detect it before he could even think of using it. The toad oil helped him form that link so that he could recognize it and then once that was done he was able to start drawing on it. It is a threat to Itachi because he doesn’t know what he is looking for because he isn’t attuned to natural energy the way Naruto has been trained to be.

    Whew, that was long… X_X

  321. @senshi

    Its seems like neither, naruto or itachi, know about each other techniques, but in a way, itachi can get a hold of things much more faster than naruto, he could see his chakra and figure out what sage mode is about + he is a genius(that always helps)

    And about sage mode braking a genjutsu, first thats a theory, second, a genjutsu implies chakra being manipulated in somebodies brain, so the way to break free is changing your chakra flow, and yes sage mod could seem really effective here but, sage mode is also a pretty delicate balance of chakras, if you use it to break free from a genjutsu its very likely that it’ll ruin sage mode, and Naruto without sage mode< ITACHI

    Also, Naruto learning very difficult techniques is because of the clone training, not because he’s smart, he has improved but its nowhere near real geniuses

    As I said before

    “sharingan is able to see chakra moving right?

    so i guess thats good enough for him to know if the FRS is real or not
    “The Sharingan’s second ability grants the user increased clarity of perception, allowing them to track and predict the movements and actions of fast-moving objects. This also allows the user to easily recognize genjutsu and different forms of chakra’

    FRS should have a great amount of chakra
    it should have ‘wind chakra’”

    SO… no more fake FRS or kage-bunshin FRS

    Also quoting myself

    “there’s no real way to compare Pein and itachis power, so that’s a whole other debate (it’ll be great to have it next week ^^)”

    because they have fought in completely different situations (read the post where i said that)

  322. Bleh! Excuse my typos… ^ ^

  323. About sage chakra being undetectable for sharingan…

    Even if they couldn’t see it, dont you think that a different chakra flw in someones body will be noticeable, Itachi will be able to see that and that in his body there are parts with ’emptiness’ (sage chakra which sharingan //supposedly\\ cant see)so he will still be able to identify that chakra inside narutos body

  324. @marksman – consider urself PWNED…mufufufu…

    Ok, so in regards to Fireball vs FRS, please check Chapter 333 for explanation on Nature Matchups. Yamato basically says, “Fire jutsu pwns wind jutsu of equal or lesser power”. Thus, FRS owns Great Fire Ball as FRS is higher level jutsu. ;P

    Sage chakra replaces normal chakra? WTF? where’d you get that idea from? Sage mode adds sage chakra to your physical and mental chakra. It doesn’t replace it. Do you want a link?

    Naruto has the perfect counter for Tsukuyomi. Dust cloud + Kage bunshin. Itachi once spent a large amount of chakra torturing a Kakashi Clone to no avail. Btw, Tsukuyomi does use an enormous amount of chakra. Check Narutopedia under kekkei genkai > mangekyou sharingan > tsukuyomi.

    NO! Sharingan CANNOT see chakra any better than a normal eye could! Under Narutopedia > kekkei genkai > sharingan, it states that the Sharingan gives the user increased perception, resulting in the user being able to identify different chakra typess, amongst other things. It does not state that a sharingan user can see chakra. That’s Byakugan, folks. So, no to itachi seeing sage chakra, even after it breaks his face in half.

    Itachi gains the upper hand cos of experimce? Pffft. Tell that to Kakuzu. The guy fought the first hokage, for crying out loud!

  325. @ Dark Avatar: uhm, dude … see my links from above and it proves sharinagn CAN see chakra ^_^


  326. Tenria Senshi: Ahhh finaly a worthy adversary.

    Ok back to the debate. Lets go back a few keystrokes shall we.Just because pa frog said that sage chakra cant be detected doesnt mean sharingan cant see it. I think pa frog meant you cant sence natural charkra like you could regular. Sasuke said himself …..hold up i mispelled something…. Sasugay said himself” My eyes can see chakra period”. He didnt discriminate against any piticular chakra here. If so he would have sad so. Im pretty sure sharingan can see sage chakra as well.

    If naruto is already in sage mode and is caught in genjistu he would have to gather more sage chakra to disrupt his normel chakra flow again to break the henjistu.
    Think about this. Number eight was already going three tials when sasugay caught him in Ms. So even though he was already using his normal chakra as well as his beast chakra he was still caught in the illusion. He had to make his beast give him more chakra to disrupt his to get out of the illusion. He said so himself.

    ok im done now. “Goes and ducks underneath table awaiting Tenrai”s respone”

  327. @elf – hey I forgot about your argument. Looked at the links…is not inconclusive proof that sharingan can see chakra, but the flow and movement of it. The point is moot, however, and I agree with what you say. However, as Sasuke showed at the valley of the end, predicting an attack based on chakra movements is damn near impossible…and if SageKyuubi mode allows for extendable sage chakra (a la super’s theory, supported by narutopedia under Uzumaki Naruto > Abilities > Senjutsu) itachi is f*cked.

  328. “i haven’t gone over everyones posts with a fine tooth comb, so if ive missed a point you’ve made, sorry” (Mudshovel)


    You couldn’t have said it better. Apology accepted. 😉

    1.) Sage beating genjutsu – Yes! Sage beats Genjutsu. We have gone over the SAME reasoning various times why Sage would help Naruto defeat Genjutsu so I’m just going to throw it out there one more time.

    “To combat the effects of Genjutsu, there are two options. The first option is for the ninja to stop the flow of chakra in their body, and then apply an even stronger power to disrupt the flow of the casters chakra. The second option is to have an outside ninja unaffected by the Genjutsu make body contact, and use their chakra to disrupt the casters flow.” (ttp://www.leafninja.com/genjutsu.php)

    “…stop the flow of chakra in their body, and then apply an even stronger power to disrupt the flow of the casters chakra”

    Sage Mode is an even stronger chakra flow that will disrupt the casters flow. When Naruto failed to break out of Itachi’s genjutsu before he tried overcoming it with his regular chakra ttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/259/11/. Now that he knows how to bring in Sage Chakra coupled with his regular chakra he can easily break out of the genjutsu. Not to mention if he really wanted to he can bring in Kyubi chakra which he didn’t try the first time. ALSO, how about the idea of one of Naruto’s clone being an outside ninja unaffected by the genjutsu making contact with Naruto to disrupt the chakra flow and breaking the gnejutsu? Remember that each clone is independent from the other. SO, Naruto now has options 1 AND 2 covered to breaking out of Itachi’s genjutsu!

    About Tsukoyomi, you must have missed our above discussion on that to. Hear now read this,

    “Tsukuyomi, named for the God of the Moon, is a Genjutsu technique which uses the Mangekyou form of the Sharingan eye to generate a powerful illusion. This jutsu is generated by the left Mangekyou eye.” (ttp://www.leafninja.com/genjutsu.php)

    This genjustu can ONLY be done from Itachi’s LEFT eye! I’m sure you know this already and maybe Naruto doesn’t but why the hell would Naruto even try to GLIMPSE in Itahi’s eyes knowing he has the sharingan? Guess what? He wouldn’t! He can fight him looking at his chest down. No need for looking at his feet or fingers. I don’t know why you’ll keep saying all Itachi has to do is point at Naurto to catch him in his genjutsu. Naruto was caught by that already so why would he fall for it again? Naruto’s dumb off the battlefield but there’s NO WAY you can ever say he’s dumb when it comes to fighting. Do I have to pull out all the links proving he a genius at unconventional tactics to win a fight. Do I?

    2.) “the lightning bolt strike was stronger than any chakra manipulated one would have been – isn’t the kyuubi just a chakra manifestation?” (Mudshovel)

    LMAO!!!! XD Are you actually saying that the weak ass Lighting Spark Sasuke did on Itachi was stronger than anything the Nine Tailed Bijuu could muster? Are you actually saying that is your basis for why the Kyubi couldn’t POSSIBLY break through Susano because of the Lighting attack it withstood. Are we talking about the same Nine Tailed Bijuu here because last time I checked there was only ONE Nine Tailed Kyubi.

    “Kyuubi is one of the tailed demons of the ancient world. With each swipe of its tail forests could be leveled. When Kyuubi attacked Konoha, Yondaime Hokage gave his life so it could be stopped and imprisoned within the young baby Uzumaki Naruto” (ttp://www.leafninja.com/biographies-K.php#Kyuubi)

    Come one give me a break there’s no comparison! The 4th Hokage had to give it’s life JUST to suppress it! There’s no comparison at all to the power of Kyubi and Sasuke’s Lighting attack! Pffft. So as I’ve said before…

    “About it being impenetrable. To what degree? As far as we know it’s only blocked what…Sasuke’s explosive tags and a weak ass lightning strike?” (Supertrek)

    I want to see it withstand a full 6 Tailed Kyubi Blast!

    3.) “If Sasuke can surpress the fox, why not Itachi?” (Mudshvoel)

    That was PRE-SAGE training! I’m telling you’ll the Sage Chakra gives him better control over Genjutsu! Dammit! Not only that but he has more control of the Kyubi now than before. When did Sasuke do that to Naruto anyway…OMG, Hidan and Kakuzu were just introduced! 0_0

    4.) “Also are you forgetting the main reason to learn senjutsu – so he wouldn’t have to rely on the kyuubi – why do you all assume he’ll just go kyuubi” (Mudshovel)

    *Sigh* If we’re incorporating the individual’s personalities in this fight than let’s take away Itachi’s Amaterasu. Because Itachi would NEVER use Amaterasu on Naruto because he was on their “side” and wouldn’t want to kill him right? If Naruto can’t go Kyubi to win this fight if he has too then Itachi can’t use his most devastating techniques to win either! An eye for an eye is what I say. Trying to take away Naruto’s Kyubi…starting to sound like Reflex. BTW, I never said he’d just GO Kyubi. It’s a last resort move just like Itachi’s Susano. Fair enough?

    5.) Ninjustu, Speed, Taijutsu

    Speed- There’s no way that Itachi’s Sharingan can keep up with Sage+Kyubi Chakra in addition to Naruto’s regular speed. Where not just talking about a Kyubi addition here.

    “Everything else as far as power is current with the manga.” (Jeremiah)

    We’re talking about Sage+Kyubi Eyes too!

    Taijutsu- Still haven’t seen anyone counter how Itachi could beat Frog Katas coupled with not only the extension of the Natural Energy aura but possibly the Kyubi’s infinite Chakra extension too. Don’t forget the Kyubi chakra can extend too making Naruto’s reach that much longer.

    Ninjutsu- Yes I read the manga but if you read Avatar’s post you would know that the LEVEL of technique is what matters in the end NOT only the element itself! Besides how can you burn wind? You can’t! Like I said before the FRS will make the fire attack stronger but the FRS will still come out on the other side an straight at Itachi?

    Now for Amaterasu specifically. You want Itachi to burn the area around Naruto? How? Amaterasu can only target a single object not multiple ones! So he lights the ground in front of Naruto…big deal Naruto jumps over it, VOILA! Besides once Itachi looses Amaterasu on the ground it’s out of hs control so he might just be caught up in it himself. Not a good move. As for lighting Naruto on fire himself. Not if Naruto has 100 Kage Bushins! Itachi can’t tell the difference and he’ll have ot be lucky to get the right one.

    Mortal Kombat Activated! 😀

  329. im voting with naruto for the win. itachi is storng, and powerful, his experience thru his life puts him at that almost untouchable level. he has surpassed everything in his path… naruto on the other hand doesnt have his experience nor does he have half the jutsus that itachi has but in the end power is power and naruto more than itachi, he has more chakra and the ability to surpass himself… yes itachi has susano and genjutsus but naruto wouldnt back away… he would keep going nonstop… that naruto… unrelenting and pure, itachi wouldnt last and all his tricks are just that… a trick while naruto is power in yo face!!!

    naruto and we forget everyone naruto went up against had jut as much experience as itachi has and beat them still all down dead!!

    sage kyuubi plus never ending determination!!!
    itachi goes down… just like he did when sasuke finished him too… naruto 1 itcahi 0.


  330. DarkAvatar eh? you think i got pwned. Hmm. Its sounds like you need to wake up to the reality that is itachi my friend. Now that ownage.
    Sasugay said himself when he fought deidoria ” my eyes SHARINGAN!!gives color to chakra!!! Argument ended.

  331. ugh my comment seems to have been butchered…
    in the end im saying everyone naruto went up against so far all have been very experienced and very powerful and all have been put down.

    itachi 0 naruto 1.

  332. Everyones head is pumped up only because nartuo beat pain. Thats why ALL OF A SUDDEN Everyone thinks oh naruto can beat itachi.

  333. HA! I completely forgot about that Tenrai and Avatar! Sharingan NOR Byakugan can see Natural Energy! If they could they could we would have seen it when looking through their POV so many times! We know the Sharingan and Byakugan can see regular chakra but natural energy is different! Pa Frog said it himself! Argue against it all you like Marksman but when Itachi tries to dodge Naruto’s punch that Sage Aura is going to slam him right in the face. BAM! Out goes Itachi! 😛

  334. @Marksman: No. I never once mentioned Pein in this debate and quite frankly I don’t know why he was bought up. I just simply believe Naruto would kick Itachi’s ass! 😉

  335. hmmm supertrek. Sasugay said my eyes give color to chakra period. He didnt say my eyes give color to charkr accept sage, no he didnt. Best believe i will supertrek. Bring it on.

    aNd lets think about something people. We have never even seen the full potential of itachi. Every here so far are coming u with ways around itachis attacks. Im pretty sure ittachi knows about sage chakra givin that naruto would be no problem.

    Again the nine tails is subject to the sharingan. So no nine tails for naruto. allllllll. ^_^

  336. i didnt say you did bring up pain supertrek. I was just pointing out the obvious.

  337. @Marksman: Nine Tails is subject to Madara’s Sharingan! Madara was the only known sharingan user that could control the Kyubi. Sasuke suppressed his power but that was PRE-SAGE training! Did you even read my post above? Jeez…

    Sasuke said his eyes give him color to chakra. NOT Natural Energy. Here’s a link to Sasuke being able to see chakra ttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/360/14/. Provide me with a link or source of Sasuke being able to see Natural Energy WHICH HE CAN’T! Then I’ll believe you. Good luck. 😉

    We also have never seen the full potential of Naruto combining Sage Chakra with Kyubi Chakra. What’s your point? BTW I only call it Sage “Chakra” because it’s easeir. Even though it’s called Sage “Chakra” it’s still Natural “Energy”! 😛

  338. @Marksman: Oh look another link of Sasuke being able to see Chakra ttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/362/14/. But look around Deidara and at the trees, the grass, the bushes, and the plants. Sasuke DOES NOT see the Natural Energy flowing through and out of them! Again, provide me a link or source stating or even showing me that the sharingan can see Natural Energy and than I’ll believe it. Until then I’ll go with what Pa Frog said in the MANGA and the evidence I provided from the MANGA that the sharingan cannot see Natural Energy. I could find more sources and evidence if you want me too…

  339. OK lets be clear:
    1. it has been said that Sharingan can see chakra’s aura. That is a long accepted fact. period.

    2. let us face facts all hypothetical arguments aside, Naruto wins in a fight to the death. It is his manga. No matter how they have to write it, Naruto wins. So, the argument here is if they didn’t have to write a Naruto win in a fight to the death, who would win. ヤ_つ

    @super: Maybe he can’t see it because it is not concentrated. When one concentrates it and mixes it into one’s own chakra (in Naruto’s case also adds Kyuubi chakra) it has to stand out like the sun to a sharingan

  340. @super im srry friend but you are seoiusly wrong we seriously havent seen true power of uchiha itachi .can u remember once.even his death was planned by himself .we have never seen itachi at full potentail.at konoha first time he fought kakashi (who sucked at that time against him) that was only a battle of a min then he fought jiraya cough only met him sorta actually and he also fu**** sasugay. we saw itachi do some fights but no biggi he fought with kakashi again but it was a clone we saw him eventually fight sasugay

    that battle was set up itachi was already very exausted .he knew sasugay would kill him in that state but that was wat he wanted he was a true ninja.

    and i disgree i think sharingan can see natural energy .well wecan discuus all we can but kishi will tell us if it can .so dont talk about it now it not decideale

  341. alrighty to those who say pain is completely different than itachi…your forgetting the rinnegan…
    the databook says that it shares the same characteristics as sharingan and byakugan in that it can sense chakra
    but what happened to one of pain’s bodies?
    BOOM!!! pwnd by frog katas, now if itachi has the same abilities in that he can see chakra, and so does pain…why not use the battle between pain and naruto as a base? Also in a very nice discussion with Jeremiah yesterday…Jeremiah says that full potential means full technique power and not 20/20 itachi vision
    So after all this i am still sticking with Naruto, itachi will probably win this weeks poll but if i can use my examples to sway someone to Team Naruto, and argued my points with facts in an intelligent matter…i’ll be content

  342. @The Incredible Marksman

    hmmm worthy indeed. I am gone only for a little while and the battle has intensified. Well, I’m back now and ready to battle!!!

    Firstly, let us make a point quickly. Jiraiya was one of the legendary sannin, very powerful, kage level, the usual praise. That was how strong he was before he showed us sage mode for the first time. Even he gave Itachi trouble when he was trying to capture Naruto.

    Now take NAruto, he took a technique even Jiraiya couldn’t master and completed it. He is the first human to ever realise sage mode in its purest form without any side effects. Even Pa frog praised his ability and commented on that fact.

    Now there have been a lot of frog contract owners in the past, inlcluding the legendary fourth Hokage, but Naruto was the first to ever achieve sage mode completely.

    That says a lot about his abilities. Not only that but he completed a jutsu that the fourth, Kakashi and even his own master could not. That shows that he is powerful.

    Now you can assume that the sharingan can see sage chakra, but I don’t think it can. Rememberm seeing one thing and being able to recognise it are two different things complerely. After all, shinobi can sense chakra, but they can’t sense sage chakra without being able to identify it. The uchiha and the Hyuuga can see chakra, but that doesn’t mean they can identify sage chakra.

    That is why NAruto had to use the toad oil, so that he could sense and draw in natural chakra. Once he got used to it, he was able to do it by himself. Hell, he fell off a cliff and didn’t even get a scratch. He threw a rino as big as Gamabunta a mile into the air without breaking a sweat. Ten pages later and the thing was still in the air for crying out loud.

    So far as we’ve seen he is nearly impervious to damage and the only time Pein managed to injure him was when he was out of sage mode after being drained of his energy. Because sage chakra extends from the body, it will probably protect him from jutsu as well, just like the Kyuubi’s chakra does when it flows around him.

    Also, for the genjutsu argument. Remember that a bijuu’s chakra becomes one with its host, so when a genjutsu affect their chakra flow it is affecting the bijuu’s chakra and the jinchuurikis because they share the same chakra pathways. Bee managed to break it because his bijuu supplied additional chakra (as you mentioned).

    Sage chakra is external and is not a part of the users original chakra flow. That means that it will disrupt the normal chakra flow. Not to mention that Naruto can avoid a genjutsu just by avoiding eye contact and Tsukyomi, unlike Itachi’s other genjutsu, can only be used via eye contact. So don’t base you argument on that factor alone, because Naruto already knows about that threat and can act accordingly.

    There, I’ve said it. i still have more if anyone wants. ^ ^

  343. @Marksman: Also you said,

    “Everyones head is pumped up only because nartuo beat pain. Thats why ALL OF A SUDDEN Everyone thinks oh naruto can beat itachi.”

    I’m apart of “everyone” right? I think most people know Naruto can beat Itachi because of sheer skill and determination. That’s why Pein wasn’t even brought up until…NOW this late in the debate. That fight is just an example of Naruto’s skill level anyway so please don’t put all of our arguments into one category. Pein’s defeat is definitely not the reason why Naruto would beat Itachi and I believe most of us on Naruto’s side would agree with that.

  344. this whole battle of who would win is just endless… dark avatar is still holding it down.

    in the end or beginning,,, naruto 1 punch done.
    no genjutsu, no susano, to nothing, itachi goes down in the first few seconds. also remember the size of oodema rasengan… image that with sage mode and kyuubi chakra infused… a fireball may be able to delay or stop it but naruto would be too fast for itachi to stop a punch in the face…

    naruto wins… 3 seconds flat.

    done et done!!


  345. @Ahsan: Right. Let’s not forget that Itachi and Kisame avoided a conflict with Jiraiya on Itachi’s belief that they would be uber-pwnd by Jiraiya. Now, because we know that Naruto has surpassed Jiraiya, Itachi (or anyone from his little emo clan, short of madara) would haft to have Tsunade surgically remove Naruto’s foot from their buttocks.

  346. @TEnrai

    a super power full tech in the hands of a person like naruto cant produce the same effect as in the hands of aperson like itachi,minato or kakashi.susano can protect itachi from all damage and since he would not be in the same condition when hw started figthin sasugay he would be able to sue it without dying.and even if we leave that frs v.s amretsuri(that is the most powerfull ninjutsu ) andw wind will only increase the power of amretsuri
    and as ero senin said sharingan can see sage chakra cuz its concentrated there

  347. Very well said EroSennin!!!!!!!!!!


  348. woah sorry about the dble post

  349. @Erosenin: Fair enough…but I’m still sticking to sharingan not being able to see Natural Energy until proven otherwise. In fact most of the evidence points to the fact of that being the case!


    1.) I already said that we don’t know the full potential of Itachi and neither do we know the full potential of Naruto with the Kyubi+Sage chakra. In the end they cancel each other out so I decided not to speculate much farther on either one of their potentials because it’d be all…unfounded speculation.

    2.) The sharingan being able to see Natural Energy is in fact speculation so yes let’s just stop talking about it.

  350. @erosenin first they avoided a conflict because the battle would be prolonged as in case with maitoo gai coming to save kaka butt and it would be a difficult battle (although the victor would be itachi) more reinforcements would turn the tables

  351. @Ahsan

    Assuming that amatarasu is the strongest ninjutsu is a big mistake. I would like to know what source you got that information from, because I don’t recall ever seeing that in the manga.

    And what is this about techs not being the same in Naruto’s hands? He was the only person who ever managed to complete the rasengan, so that means he has a good grasp of jutsu. He has also shown his creativity and skill when using his bunshins, the rasengan and the rasenshuriken, so don’t act like he isn’t smart in battle.

    If the geniuses are so smart, then why weren’t they able to complete the rasengan? Why is it that Naruto has surpassed both Minato and Jiraiya and defeated pein, a man who can learn any jutsu the world has ever seen without any problems and who blew up the whole of Konoha in a single move?

    If you ask me, Amatarasu has nothing on Shinra tenshi, which has been shown to be able to repell any kind of attack, even one as powerful as the rasenshuriken. Still Naruto managed to bypass it, just like he’d find a way to bypass the amatarasu and even the Susanoo, which is also considered an impervious defense.

    Don’t underestimate him and don’t judge a win based solely on three jutsu. Naruto is stronger because of more reasons that what jutsu he uses, he is stronger because of all the factors put together. His unhumane strength, his massive chakra reserves, his cunning, his ingenuity, his never give up attitude and his powerful jutsu make him a force to be reckoned with.

  352. @super well this debate can never be completed becouse we will see sage + kyubi soon enough but there is never going to be a full power itachi battle

  353. @Ashan: Amaterasu is almost as limited as FRS and in fact carries more risk with it.

    “The Amaterasu or Goddess of the Sun technique is generated by the right Mangekyou eye. It is a Ninjutsu technique which uses the Mangekyou form to create a powerful black fire which can burn through most anything. As it has been said that anything within the Mangekyou’s vision will burn to ash if consumed by the fire. The fire itself is said to burn for 7 days and 7 nights. The fire is also regarded as the strongest of Mangekyou’s physical attacks.” (ttp://www.leafninja.com/doujutsu.php)

    If he catches Naruto’s clones Naruto will just replace them and Itachi will be left with a bleeding eye and depleted chakra from the use of Amaterasu. FRS is a spinning circular disc made of wind that expands to twice it’s size cutting anything within it’s reach. If Itachi counters FRS with Amaterasu then the fire will expand around the whole area catching both of them in the flames. Stale Mate.

    Susano is impenetrable but how much? Everything has a weakness just like Superman to Kryptonite. I wonder if it can stand up to the Kyubi? What do you think? 😉

  354. i still say that those sage kyuubi eyes ever1 talks about is not going to be an eye technique or something…its just the sage chakra trying to suppress kyuubi because of the emotionally charged situation…that or Kishi is using it to give out free wet dreams…(im still not sure if i can say that)

  355. @tenrai you said it your self His unhumane strength, his massive chakra reserves, his cunning, his ingenuity, his never give up attitude and his powerful jutsu make him a force to be reckoned

    his inhumane strenght gives him the power to complete rasen shurikan and his chakra and its true some mind work too

    i dont know about anyone else chakra levels but i would say that kakashi wasnt able to do it cuz of one reasons FTW the inhumane chakra it uses kakashi would be rip just starting to make it remember kakashi actually gave naruto the extra clone tip or it would have taken much more time

    his cunning agree fully naruto has changed he is cunning and has a great jutsu but what i said meant that like

    it is said that an intelligent can kill a person with a rock but a dumbass cant witha fully automated assault rifle

    thats the diff no matter how smart naruto becomes
    he cant match the brain of kakashi itachi minato tye of guys

  356. Suppress? Looks more to me like the combination of both of their powers…

  357. this is why this debate is useless… the facts aren’t all presented and its now just hearsay from one side to the next… anytime one person will state anything the sole answer is susano or amatarasu… that kind of logic without the full knowledge of what its really going against cant work… it wont matter if the truth is out there or not, the itachi lovers wont ever break even after its been proven to them that naruto will overcome his adversaries… a trump card move was thought to have been under everyone naruto faced and he still overcame all of them…another point is maybe the real limitations of this battle needs to be defined as what is the exact “full power sets” of each of the 2… meaning what exactly does naruto have full control of and what state is that in for the rest of what he can do?? also we basically know what itachi’s full power sets are… so its just annoying to keep hearing this 1 sided answer susano … the extents of what it is hasn’t been proven enough that it will trump anything naruto does… plain and simple…

    id rather see this battle with knowing more real truth instead of just speculating an answer.. i follow naruto because i love his growth as a character and to evolve past everything no matter what… this debate is like a slap in the face to what naruto stands for.. so to finish as he will never stand down, naruto for the win!!


  358. @super

    susano’o may have a weakness but can naruto spot it before itachi ahem attacks him and sends him to his jirsya sensie and remember sasugay ultimateattack which he preapred so long time was like a baby punching susano’o

    about amretsuri v.s rasen shurikan

    amretsuri burns anything in its path to nothing

    so if itachi does amretsuri after naruto has thrown frs it expands and amretsuri turns it to nothingness!!

  359. @Ahsa

    You seem to underestimate NAruto’s intellegence. If he isn’t smart, then why is everyone looking to him for all their answers. Why did Kakashi entrust him to complete the rasengan? Why did he say that Naruto is the only person who could surpass the fourth.

    He mastered the original rasengan in a week, somthing that took the fourth three years to create. He did it by being smart and finding a way that suited him, not by relying on what Jiraiya showed him like a parot. He was also the only person to master the sage mode, something his master could not even do, so if that doesn’t make him smart, then I don’t know what your definition of smart is.

    He also learned the Kage bunshin in one night of having the sealing scroll and that was long before he came as far as learning the sage techniques.

    P.S. the tip Kakashi gave him only helped a bit. Even then he didn’t complete the Rasenshuriken. He did that after he learned sage mode and he did it on his own. Don’t say he isn’t as smart as Kakashi or Itachi, because that shows that he can be jsut as intelligent and although he is a bit idiotic at times, when it comes to battle he can think on his feet just as well as any genius.

    That showed easily in his battle with Pein and he figured out a way to get past every hurdle that his bodies possessed and he did it with his own smart and the information given to him.

  360. @Ashan:

    “it is said that an intelligent can kill a person with a rock but a dumbass cant witha fully automated assault rifle” (Ashan)

    I beg to differ. How dumb do you think Naruto is anyway? Give Naruto a fully automatic assault rifle and Itachi’s ass is grass! 😉 Anyway, didn’t you already agree with Naruto being “cunning”?

    “his cunning agree fully naruto has changed he is cunning and has a great jutsu but what i said meant that like” (Ashan)

    He may not be as smart as Itachi…are we talking grades here or what? But he is just as smart on the battlefield when it comes to tactics and strategies to fight!

    And why do you keep bring up Kakashi in this? Kakashi got PWNed and is buried under rubble eating marshmallows at a camp fire with his dead dad. He has nothing to do with this debate…

  361. @ Ahsan:
    and explain to me exactly how an already existent spinning object moving at a high speed can be turned into nothingness by black flames that spawn out of nowhere? if he uses amaterasu on in im not saying it would turn into Futton Rasen Amaterasu Shuriken (lol, that would be SICK!!) but i am saying that they would not stop it

  362. I think everyone is relying too much on the mangyeko sharingan. If that is all that Itachi has going for him, then he isn’t as much of a genius as we all think.

    It doesn’t take a genius to kill your best friend to gain power, that is an easy way and to get stronger and it is cheap as well. Naruto has worked hard for every bit of strength he has gained, but it is that experience and determination that will win him the battle in the end.

    If you are going to make an argument, at least talk about Itachi’s other positive attributes and stop falling back onto a skill that was obtained through nothing more than a simple act of killing. It is an insult to Itachi as much as it is a hindered to this debate.

  363. OMG!!!!

  364. OMG you’re losing Marksman…

  365. @ all on me

    first of all i will not give up and

  366. Ahsan: re-read: http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/144/10/ & here is them running in fear: http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/148/03/

    though I have to agree frs is a wind technique, and thus is weak against fire, it would only fan the flames..

  367. @Marksman

    You can Call me Tenrai… ^ ^

    JK!!! XD


    then i say that what a rifle can do in itachi’s hands or minato ‘s hands cannot do in naruto’s we have to agre all the experience everthing they have to put it intoa better use

    then on battle field naruto ‘s benefit will be a long fight and hence itachi will end it qiiuck

  369. Eugen posted a link for the raw of Naruto Bonds on the Naruto post… Dattebayo will most likely have it subbed soon.

  370. @Ahsan

    And yet Naruto pwned laser head in a second flat. Not to mention that he has grown a lot faster since before his sage training. He took out each of pein’s bodies in a single blow, only against deva pein was the battle extended.

    If Itachi can’t land a debilitating blow early in the battle, does that mean he loses? What if it is Naruto who hits first and ends the battle jsut as quickly? That is a poor argument, because Naruto has shown that he can annihilate his opponents in a single attack.

    Naruto is just as quick as Itachi now and he doesn’t even have to prepare a jutsu like amatarasu or tsukyomi to finish the job.

  371. bonds is out!!!!!!!!!!!!!


  372. qiuck as itachi FTW

    WTF are u mad naruto can naver match itachi’s speed

  373. @Ahsan

    Oh really, so how did you figure that? I have actually never seen one point in the entire manga where Itachi has shown superior speed or where someone has commented on how fast he is. Not in his battle with Kakashi in the original series, or the one in shippuuden or his battle with Sasuke.

    If you can show me one example, I would appreciate that. Sasuke has been commented on his speed, but Itachi has never shown any stand-out examples of that factor.

    Naruto got from the top of Gamabunta’s head and onto Laserhead’s ass in less than a second, so I think that could mean he is quite fast. Not to mention that you can’t even see him when he gets a speed boost from the Kyuubi. Sage mode should give him a similar advantage if its power and his showmanship is anything to go by.

  374. wait a sec even in his shippuden battle (specail clone 30 % power)with kakashi when kakashi attacked him he made a clone and put it in plce and went after naruto himself

    and kakshi only realised it when he reached there with sharingan on that too the the later one when he says he was prepared

  375. i know its tedious but if you want to read more into the speed thing…someone brought the same thing up, but in their proof it only talked about speed in hand seals and throwing weapons…so itachi’s speed throughout is an unknown in all reality…

  376. Drosensie itachi showed his speed against kakashi.
    @supertrek89: Yea as a matter of fact i do want you to find me a link. Find the one where it says sharingan cant see sage chakra. Good luck^_^.

    Ok jman told naruto someone had to fuse there chakra into you to break genjistu. Sage mode doent work like that. It doest tap you on the shouldee. Sage mode is already perfectly balanced with a persons regular chakra. So like i said before supertrek89 it doesnt work that way. If so jiaria or pa frog would have told him so.

    You and the other on naruto side still fail to wake up to the riality that is itachi. Itachi pwns naruto.

  377. And the only difference between ameratsu and fire is that ameretsu consumes fire itself and cant be put out. So seeing as how rasen shurican has the wind element in it in the end amertsu wins.

  378. yes very true marks man

  379. @The Incredible Marksman

    Once again relying on Amatarasu… -_-

    Who said Naruto had to use Rasenshuriken? He knows about its weaknesses and besides, we don’t know the power comparison. A wind jutsu can beat a fire jutsu if it is more powerful, but we still don’t know the full extent of the Rasenshuriken’s power yet.

    Like I said before, try to find some other factors other than a cheap technique that was won through killing someone. Naruto is stronger because he works harder and has earned his power. Itachi, like all other Sharingan users, rely to much on their eyes. Take away their vision and they are useless.

    Itachi’s Amatarasu can only hit what he focuses his eyes on and Tsukyomi relies on eye contact to activate. If he can’t see he is half as effective as he would normally be. Naruto can track you with chakra alone and can sense and differentiate between hundreds of different chakra sources over a wide area.


    Just about every shinobi on this series has been able to eveade an attack with a last second shunshin, clone, henge, kawarimi, etc. Naruto was doing that in part one already. That has more to do with cunnin gthan speed and Itachi’s perception with his sharingan gave him the edge to do so.

    Take away his vision and he is helpless, or at least only half as effective.

    Even still that is not proof enough to say that he is faster than Naruto is now, so it is still invalid as an argument.

    If you want a proper debate, start thinking outside the box and stop falling back onto the same three jutsu every single time. Give me something else more credible and that is actually conducive to this debate.


  380. Tenria Senshi the true adversary speaks again eh? Well i dont mean to keep going to amerestu like this. I dont ever remeber reading in the manga where it says a wind jistu can beat a fire jistu if more powerfull. Link please^_^ (Supertrek if you will)
    Amerestu pwns rasin shirican unfortunaly for naruto. As a matter of fact Itachis fire ball no jistu owns rasen shircakan for that matter.
    Why you why you gota take awat sharingan? Thays not fare. That would be like me taking away sage mode or 4 and a half tails from the kyubi. you refered to it as a “cheap teck” eh? Well sage mode is a cheap teck. Anything is a cheap teck for that matter. ITs not cheap. Kyubi is cheap. Imorrtals is cheap. Time space no jistu is cheap!!!! So itachis ameratu can only penatrate a spot his eyes concentrate on eh? Hmmm. Do you know how hard it is to dodge someone eyesight? And last i check naruto doesnt really have any intence speed like itachi. Even in sage mode if amerestu connects its lights out for naruto. I seriously doubt naruto is smarter then itachi for one and itachi has way more fighting experience. Itachi pwns naruto. Ok lets say this theory about sage energy being able to get one out of genk=jistu works. For one this is MS genjistu that cant be broken that way as explained by chiyo. 2 while naruto is attempting to break free of the ginjistu itachi would just physically kill him.

  381. @Tenari: I agree that Naruto wouldn’t use FRS against Amatarasu, but a strong enough wind Beating a fire tech….uh, no. When…Where? the standard Rasengan doesn’t use wind and would not be affected, nor would huge ball rasengan, or double…etc Sage mode punches only have to get close, and still tons of toad combo’s and a small army of toads to assist…Naruto wins.

  382. Ok im going to try giving this debate a different angle.

    First lets call the thing that are speculation and leave them out like:

    Sage beating genjutsu
    Sharingan seeing sage chakra
    Naruto being faster or stronger than itachi
    Itachi being faster or stronger than naruto

    Now seeing this from an objective point of view, im analyzing both weaknesses:


    *MS (one of his most powerful techniques) carries a high risk
    *Sharingan has many times failed to spot KB, that a disadvantage against naruto
    *Low chakra reserves

    Thats pretty much it for itachi, hes a powerful intelligent and experienced ninja


    *weak against genjutsu
    *sage mode will need time to gather
    *hes not as intelligent or experienced as itachi
    *uncontrolled kyubi = light out for him


    Now by just knowing this we’re still missing a lot of info to determine a winner

    *we dont know itachi at full power
    *we dont know naruto’s sage-kyubi potencial
    *we dont know if a technique like susano has a weakness or how effective it is

    So i personally think this goes down to opinions and speculations, which are not really valid… so ill call it a


    (i still personally think Itachi would win)

  383. I’m wondering if it would be plausible for Naruto to just throw a regular rasengan.

  384. OK…against my better judgment here it is.

    This is a one punch knock out by Itachi. He’ll strike fast and hard because he has enough intel on Naruto to know about the kyuubi and what that means.

    He also knows Naruto doesn’t tolerate genjutsu. AND he’s met him, so he’s seen how Naruto sort of warms into battle. Naruto is not a fast thinker, and when he does get a strategy it seems to be a very physical sort of discovery. That’s why it takes him some time to pwn. He has to find the right strategy through kinesthetics.

    Itachi knows this about him and will, if he’s smart (and I know he is…in fact, his stats are here…http://www.leafninja.com/biographies-U.php) Intelligence, speed, summoning/seals, ninjutsu and genjusu are all max.

    Naruto’s primary weakness is genjutsu. Jiraiya tried to train him to break genjutsu and basically failed. Told Naruto he was pretty well fuq’d unless he could rely on teammates to break him out. You can say sage mode will fix that, but that’s as unknown as the limits to Itachi’s MS. It would be pure hot air to start talking that way…and…my dad could beat up your dad. We have to stick to facts so far.

    Naruto’s been using smokebombs, but Itachi doesn’t need eye contact to score genjutsu.

    Immediate genjutsu or tsukyomi hit would flatten Naruto.

    What about the Kyuubi? Hah…Itachi leaves Naruto in a nice dream and takes him to the statue where they extricate the kyuubi. This isn’t a situation where Itachi would kill…and this is only if you believe he would ever try to take Naruto down.

    These two, like the last two, would never have an all out battle…so the point is moot and dumbass again. Naruto can’t lose, ever, but this is one of the toughest match ups for him. Only Madara will be harder, and he’s going to need Sasuke’s help.

    The unknowns do land in Naruto’s favor, but they’re unknowns. Sage chakra might be able to break genjutsu. It also may have no effect. We’ll have to wait and see on that.

  385. BUBBLE:

    Konan: Maybe if I stare at him menacingly he’ll go away…

    Nagato: Tell me Naruto….How did it feel to be penetrated by my long black rod?

    Naruto: Can you give me a minute?! You didn’t even yell SURPRISE…

  386. BUBBLE:

    Konan: I think you should tell him your evil plan, Nagato.

    Nagato: Naruto…I put laxitives in the last bowl of ramen you ate!

    Naruto: You WHAT!!!…..ohhhh…i dont feel so good…

  387. and i hate to say this, in fact i’ve hooked up a car battery to my nuts as say this, but i agree with ibi… i agree with everything…

  388. @ marksman:
    it says his jutsu is very fast, along with how fast he throws weapons…nothing about him being fast…he ends up behind him because its a shadow clone with a distraction…point proven
    now as for their second encounter
    read this…no mention of speed anywhere in this fight
    you guys are confusing his jutsu speed with his physical speed, 2 different things

  389. @The Incredible Marksman

    If you’ve noticed I haven’t been bringing up the Kyuubi this entire time, save for one reference to speed. The reason is because I don’t believe that that is NAruto’s true power.

    In the same way I don’t like the idea of the Uchiha relying on the sharingan so much, I also don’t like the idea of Naruto relying on the Kyuubi. He is powerful enough on his own and the only thing the Kyuubi seems to do is cause more harm than good.

    Take away the Sharingan? If I did that, Itachi would be nothing in comparison to what he is now. He relies too much on his genjutsu and his mangyeko sharingan. It was already costing him his sight and it also costs him something more important.

    Naruto works for everything he gets and that is a fact. He has never been handed anything on a silver platter and that is the difference between him and ItachI and Sasuke. He grows stronger the right way, not the cheap way and in the end that will prove to be his advantage.

    As for your link…


    Chapter 333 page 12…

    Yamato states that a katon jutsu will beat a wind jutsu OF THE SAME LEVEL. We still don’t know how Amatarasu and Rasenshurriken compare, but what we do know is that Rasenshuriken is probably an SS class technique and may be a higher level than Amatarasu.

    It that is the case, then it can overcome it. We do know that Rasenshuriken is a higher level than any Katon jutsu Itachi has shown, so they wont beat it at all. After all a small breeze will feed a fire, but blow to hard and you’ll blow it out.

  390. I didn’t think I’d get involved in this debate. However, after seeing all the interesting theories and some of the things Kishi mentioned in interviews, I decided to say my “two cents.”

    Itachi has that visual jutsu down – he’s virtually unstoppable there. However, his visual jutsu has a very high price; blindness and exhaustion (the blindness is the worst of the two side-effects). It is something that Kakashi has mentioned he’s dealt with and it is also something that Sasuke is discovering: power comes at a very high price (remember FRS without Sage Mode?). If Itachi had taken Sasuke’s eyes, this wouldn’t be a problem and he would have beaten his brother. However, it wasn’t meant to be; Itachi wanted to die at the hands of Sasuke. Itachi is very strong in the ninjutsu/taijutsu area as well, but is able to be beaten. Once genjutsu comes in, opponents are finished.

    Naruto, on the other hand, like Ibi stated, has a major deficiency in genjutsu. Jiraiya tried to teach him how to combat it on his own but it became obvious that he had to rely upon his teammates, who will not always be there to negate its effects. However, at his current strength, it is difficult to tell what his abilities are NOW in combating genjutsu. It is possible that Itachi, in their final encounter, gave him that ability to be used if absolutely necessary. I saw a link to a 2008 Kishi interview that stated that Naruto will (or has) demonstrate that during his very harsh training during his 2 1/2 year absence, Naruto learned every single one of Jiraiya’s jutsus – esp Sennin – and three of his father’s four (though there is some debate as to whether his father’s Thunder God jutsu is actually a Kekke Genkai or if he was even taught that at all if it wasn’t). In addition, Naruto learned to improve upon some of the ones he was taught in order to “make them his own.” FRS came much later…Naruto is a “learn by doing” ninja, which requires stamina, strength and opportunity. He uses and improvises jutsu depending on what he finds out about his opponents (where his Shadow Clone tech comes in handy). Itachi isn’t known for giving many opportunities for anyone to learn and can be merciless. Naruto also has unlimited stamina due to the Kyuubi chakra and now, unparalleled strength and healing ability with the Sage Chakra. Not sure what to make of either combining the two or what the Sage Arts will provide on its own. We’ll have to wait and see…

  391. @ ibiki:
    is this what you’ve been talking about?
    because if it doesnt say that he failed it and that jiraya said he was f’d unless someone got him out of it, he only told him what possible ways to do it were.
    As for why he couldn’t break out of it…
    This is Itachi we’re talking about…his genjutsu is fantastic…even someone like kurenai was put into a reverse genjutsu…Itachi even complemented him on his growth (eww) but since then naruto has gotten even stronger…
    @ everyone:
    btw itachi cant cast Tsukuyomi without eye contact…and like ive said smoke bombs eliminate that risk, even if it is for a short amount of time, plus in the smoke…don’t you think itachi’s already sub-par vision hinders him even more?

  392. @Ibiki Teishi

    You say that Itachi has better intel on Naruto, but Naruto knows just as much about Itachi. Only Itachi doesn’t know about sage mode.

    NAruto could also one shot K.O. Itachi before he can cast a genjutsu and because he already knows how Itachi can snag him in a genjutsu, he knows how to avoid it now.

    Both of them know a lot about the other so that isn’t really a fair argument. The truth is that Naruto doesn’t even need a jutsu to finish the battle in seconds. He just needs to come close to hitting Itachi and he’s K.O.

    AS I’ve said before, everything is circumstantial and that is that. We all have our opinions but at the end of the day that is all they are, opinions. To really find out who would win, we would have to see a battle between the two and the closest we are going to get to that is a battle between NAruto and Sasuke.

  393. @everyone

    I am going to bed now. I am too tired to debate right now, so I’ll see you tomorrow! ^ ^


    This isn’t over yet… X_X

  394. Tenrai: lmao! dude…by the time Naruto stood still long enough to get in to sage mode, the genjutsu would be cast. Naruto takes prep time for his attacks…stillness, getting the right spin and compression on those magic balls. Itachi wiggles his thumb and it’s over. Don’t make me laugh.

    Again, Naruto may have intel on Itachi, but he always takes two or three runs at reasonably strong opponents to assess the damage and lock onto a strategy. He thinks with his body, not his mind. It’s a slower way to process, but perhaps more effective if you have the stamina and chakra to pull it off. He does. Problem is, stamina and force will not even come to play if Itachi gets in the first hit.

    And I can’t see a scenario where he would hold off. Sasuke has nowhere near Itachi’s skills…that will not be the same at all.

  395. @Alec: lmao. Dude, I’ll lend you some salve for that later. >.<

  396. Ok Tenrai Senshi. Of to sleep you go. Fare game though. “ill be awaiting you comment tomar my worthy advisary. Till then peace

  397. @itachi lovers everywhere… pics prove everything… this pic will prove with out a doubt that naruto will beat itachi 100% and no matter what is thrown at naruto he still wins…

    seems itachi does have a weakness after all…

    p.s. thanks kishi for the assist…


  398. @Marksman: Hmmm….it seems you’ll need these. *Hands Marksman glasses* because it seems you’ll need help seeing this link I’m about to post for the second time. Matter of fact I’ll just post the whole comment I made so you’ll get it into perspective.

    “Oh look another link of Sasuke being able to see Chakra ttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/362/14/. But look around Deidara and at the trees, the grass, the bushes, and the plants. Sasuke DOES NOT see the Natural Energy flowing through and out of them! Again, provide me a link or source stating or even showing me that the sharingan can see Natural Energy and than I’ll believe it. Until then I’ll go with what Pa Frog said in the MANGA and the evidence I provided from the MANGA that the sharingan cannot see Natural Energy. I could find more sources and evidence if you want me too…” (Supertrek)

    Do you need anymore links of sharingan not being able to see Natural Energy? I can post more just be sure not to skip over them again.

    Oh, and here’s the link that says the Elements have to be on the same level in order for the weaknesses and strengths to work out the way you want them too ttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/333/12/. “Of the same level”. If it’s not of the same level it’s a different story. You’re welcome! BTW, I’m still waiting for at least ONE link saying or showing the sharingan being able to see Natural Energy. So when you respond please make sure you have that link with you. I feel like I’m the only one providing links between me and you. And don’t bring up that link of Sasuke being able to see the “color” of chakra. Lol, I already know that and my link already shows it. I want to see the sharingan identifying Natural Energy NOT chakra. Thank You.

    @Noom: You’re absolutely right. The sharingan being able to see Natural Energy is total speculation and maybe Sage chakra helping Naruto break out of genjutsu is speculation but it’s a pretty damned good one.

    @Ibiki: Naruto warms into battle…that’s true….in the past. Just look what happened in the battle with Pein. He came out balls swinging and FRS’s flying. In fact he wanted to end the battle quickly and introduced us to the FRS. He’s usually the one to attack first hard and fast not Itachi who’s usually calm and cool.

    The only way we know Itachi can get Naruto into genjutsu is by his opponent looking into his eyes (Which Naruto is not dumb enough to do) and having his opponent look at his purple painted fingernail (Which Naruto has already been caught in and we’ll not be dumb enough to fall for again). You’ll keep saying that Naruto will fall into Itachi’s genjutsu and the battle will be over, but you’ll seriously underestimate Naruto’s battle smarts! He learns as he goes! He fell into Itachi’s genjutsu twice already; one by the “eye” and one by the “finger” *snickers* He won’t make the same mistake twice is what I’m trying to say! The battle can’t magically start and Naruto is under Itachi’s genjutsu. I know you’re not saying that but that’s what you’ll are making it out to be. This is all fact.

    Now about Sage Chakra helping Naruto fight genjutsu. I’ll admit it’s a speculation since we have no proof of it ever doing so but the evidence stating it will is valid.

    “there are two options. The first option is for the ninja to stop the flow of chakra in their body, and then apply an even stronger power to disrupt the flow of the casters chakra. The second option is to have an outside ninja unaffected by the Genjutsu make body contact, and use their chakra to disrupt the casters flow.” (ttp://www.leafninja.com/genjutsu.php)

    Not only could Sage Chakra be the “even stronger power to disrupt the flow of the casters chakra.” But he could have one of his clones who are independent of the user be the “outside ninja unaffected by the Genjutsu make body contact, and use their chakra to disrupt the casters flow.” Naruto has both options covered to fight the genjutsu. Remember that last time he tried to break out he only used his regular chakra ttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/259/11/. Introduce Sage Chakra and possibly Kyubi Chakra and what do you get? Maybe if Naruto loses all sense and looks into Itachi’s Left eye and is caught by Tsukoyomi then he’ll be finished…if the Kyubi doesn’t step in… Again, I know this is “speculation” since we haven’t seen it in action, but it’s bordering on the realm of the obvious and practical.

    About Itachi being able to surpress the Kyubi…

    “To do so he (Madara) removed Izuna’s eyes and made them his own. With these new eyes, his Mangekyou took on a combined appearance of his original Mangekyou and Izuna’s. These “Eternal” Mangekyou eyes returned his vision and gave him unbelievable strength. With this strength it was said Madara used Sharingan’s normal ability to supress the Kyuubi and tame it.” (ttp://www.leafninja.com/doujutsu.php)

    It seems only Madara with the EMS can suppress and tame the Kyubi not Itachi or Sasuke. In fact nowhere in the manga does it say that any sharingan user can control the Kyubi besides Kyubi. What Sasuke did before was genjutsu on Naruto and like I’ve said before Naruto can now fight that genjutsu.

    @Anyone: *Sigh* You’ll don’t have to agree with everything I say even though I continuously cite sources and backup my arguments with proof. Reading this manga is the reason why I think Naruto would win against Itachi. Not because of just the Kyubi or his name is on the damn Front Page! Please do not base Naruto’s victory on just that as I do not. I put Naruto’s determination, ingenuity, cunning, and being Leaf’s “#1 Unpredictable Ninja” first when I say he wins this battle. His unlimited chakra reserves, powerful jutsus, Sake+Kyubi chakra, and inhuman strength are just kickass seconds that give him an extra edge. 😉

  399. Let’s not forget gathering of Natural Energy does not take that long even on the battlefield for Naruto at this stage ttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/435/003/. Naruto was still for just a second and the Energy came Immediately and the effects were instant. Just flip to the next page and see Preta Pein’s testament to this. 0_0

  400. nice 1 supertreck…what i posted earlier about rinnengan supports your theory…
    “In addition to allowing an individual to quickly master various jutsu, the user may also use all basic forms of nature manipulation. Like the Sharingan and Byakugan do, the Rinnegan also allows the user to sense chakra, including an otherwise hidden barrier.”
    when naruto punched preta pain with natural energy Deva pain was surprised because he thought that he had deflected the blow…this confusion in Deva Pain leads me to believe that he wasnt able to see the Natural Energy surrounding Naruto’d body

  401. Whoops typo! Correction: *In fact nowhere in the manga does it say that any sharingan user can control the Kyubi besides Madara*

  402. supertrek*

  403. pics prove everything!!!!


    itachi has a weakness!!!


  404. @Spill: LMAO! XD

    Alright I gotta go to some stupid group meeting. Don’t get too out of hand until I get back now. 😉

  405. @super: silly, silly, silly boy. Naruto had been preparing for battle with Peins for weeks. Der. If he was fast on the trigger, it’s because he and pa had been making some slow battle plans. It still took some time to rev up…there was the necessary “I shall pwn you…sit down Gramma and have a cuppa” lights out already. He still took several attacks to find the right combos…or did he not all but run out of clones and FRS by the end, hmm?

    You think that if Itachi managed to get a genjutsu on Naruto that Madara wouldn’t be right there? Ha…besides…can find any evidence about Itachi and Naruto to refute what I said so you have to change the subject.

    Whether or not Sharingan sees natural energy is irrelevant.

    “The only way we know Itachi can get Naruto into genjutsu is by his opponent looking into his eyes” This is false. Itachi is able to cast genjutsu without eye contact.

    “Utakata is a Genjutsu technique utilized by Akatsuki member Uchiha Itachi. Itachi will start this technique by using only one finger on his right hand. His target does not have to look into his eyes, a glance at the hand itself will be enough. Once inside the illusion, he can control the visions the ninja sees. This illusion can also be used to play on the fears of the target, causing them to see and hear those who they care about degrade them.” Sourcebook, as posted on http://www.leafninja.com/genjutsu.php

    Speculation about what the sage chakra and and can’t do is dumbass. You have to stick with facts, jack–because otherwise my dad could be up your dad even though they would never actually brawl. >.< According to the intel both have on the others, according to known skill sets, this is a one punch TKO.

    “there are two options. The first option is for the ninja to stop the flow of chakra in their body, and then apply an even stronger power to disrupt the flow of the casters chakra. The second option is to have an outside ninja unaffected by the Genjutsu make body contact, and use their chakra to disrupt the casters flow.” Stop the chakra. This ends sage mode. THEN apply greater force. And how can you stay still or gather that chakra in the midst of an hallucination? Second option is to get body contact…this is a one on one battle. There are no teammates for backup.

    Face it and admit it, Naruto will need teammates to beat Madara. It is just that bloody simple.

  406. @Super: Control of the Kyuubi is also an irrelevant argument. But, Sasuke saw and talked to the Kyuubi inside Naruto and sent him back to the cage. You were saying?

  407. *yawns* …ugh…morning…

    *Notices itachi vs Naruto debate*

    Wow. That’s a whole heap of “argument”. I’m just gonna add my two cents, then get ready for work…

    @ibi – if I were Naruto Id be in sagekyuubi mode before I came to the battlefield. In fact if Naruto was Naruto he’d do the same thing. He isn’t THAT dumb.

    Um…wiggles his thumb? That’s thumb wars…either way, tsukuyomi requires eye contact, genjutsu requires either eye contact or at the very least eye-to-ring contact. Can someone please tell me why the F*CK Naruto would look into his eyes or ring, knowing what the consequences of that particularly stupid decision would be? …No hands? OK.

    And I would also like to say that Naruto has gotten control of the Kyuubi to a point that he can resist and negate Genjutsu…or did no one but me read the Manga this week? Let’s re-cap: nagato runs naruto through with a chakra rod in an apparently useless effort to control Naruto…the Kyuubi won’t stand for it and negates it comletely.

    Now, who among you would like to debate whether the Chakra Rod Insertion technique is a type of genjutsu? It is, people, as the fundamentals of Genjutsu are apparent: Control of your opponents chakra via your own chakra, results in control over your opponent to do with what you want with. Both genjutsu and CRI TAKE CONTROL of the opponents nervous system, to make them experience phantasms or to control their actions, kinda like what Kakashi did to Zabuza.

    Now, in SageKyuubi mode, Naruto was able to withstand Pains chakra, which is no small achievement, given Nagato’s initial gloating and his eventual deep surprise. I quote this argument to support my theory that Sage mode CAN withstand Genjutsu.

    Now please excuse me, I am EXTREMELY LATE!!!!!!!!

    Btw, my dad really could beat up your dad, ibi LOL jkjk

  408. Fab: sage mode going in, huh? doubt it. I think if these two had in tent to kill (which is a completely stupid assumption), Itachi would sense Naruto’s presence first. You imagine Naruto walking through the forest skipping around in sage mode? Ha ha ha…that’s a crap assumption.

    Naruto wouldn’t look at his hands? Oh, cool…*pulls up a chair*…oh…whups for a second there I thought you were writing a fanfic…since this is starting to sound more and more like you pulling Naruto’s string. It’s not cast from his ring but his finger, read the excerpt. And there are a lot of ways to get someone to look if you’re smart.

    I think “oh, look, a monkey!” would do for a lot here. Probably for Naruto, too.

  409. Kyuubi didn’t help Naruto when Itachi caught him last time. Naruto is in sage mode currently, and has been on high alert for some time. Kyuubi already wants out and Naruto is finally in a position to avenge his mentor. I thik the emotional stakes and his commitment to the killin’ are very, very different than what he would face against Itachi.

  410. @ibi – what are you saying? Do you admit that when emotionally charged and inSageKyuubi mode, naruto can resist Genjutsu? If you are, then thanks a bunch!

  411. Its about time super – God damn everytime you appear i’m asleep and miss the chance to debate you grrrr. o well. Also its about time you got here marksman, was just me and noom against these poses (lol jk jk)

    First of all super – Sage beating genjutsu) now first of all you are assumeing that itachi would give him the chance to do this a genjutsu and second off all what you are talking about would only be standard genjutsu, and not the Doujutsu technique Tsukuyomi. As Itachi has said “only another Sharingan user with the same blood flowing in me could possibly defeat me”

    Also in the point where you said “ALSO, how about the idea of one of Naruto’s clone being an outside ninja unaffected by the genjutsu making contact with Naruto to disrupt the chakra flow and breaking the gnejutsu?” umm, that would be pointless – if it’s a shadow clone that got caught in the genjutsu, then there is no point to bust it out, if its the original – they wouldn;t know that they were caught in a genjutsu till its to late.

    also you said “Remember that each clone is independent from the other.” – If each clone was independant – how come when the original goes into kyuubi mode (tails) the clones become injured and disperse – this proves that they are still connected to the original and that enough damage/pain to the original can make the clones disperse.

    “I don’t know why you’ll keep saying all Itachi has to do is point at Naurto to catch him in his genjutsu.”
    Not true, that is just one of his ways to capture ppl in genjutsu
    “I’m sure you know this already and maybe Naruto doesn’t but why the hell would Naruto even try to GLIMPSE in Itahi’s eyes knowing he has the sharingan?”
    So are you just saying for the fight Itachi will just stand like a statue waiting for naruto to look into his eyes? You don’t think that the man who murdered most of his clan (yes with the help of madara) at the age of 12 can’t think up a few ideas on how to cause nin to ‘accidently’ look into his eyes. But of course he can’t even bend his knees – so how could he? (lol jk).

    Okay onto the “Karin” i think that’s ehat sasuke called the ligntning bolt – First of all the kyuubi inside naruto is only half as strong as the original kyuubi and your saying that a massive lighning bolt is insignificant compared to the kyuubi – sure the compltete ninetails would most likely have attacks stronger than it (but we are just assumeing) and if the 9tails comes out – Naruto is dead (same with itachi aswell most likely) so the battle ends in a draw.

    [sigh] hmm your right when the manga said this:
    “a shield that can turn back any attack”, but of course its the kyuubi so lets all assume that it can do this and that – there is no proof that it can break the Yata Mirror (and did i mention that it’s only half as strong as the original kyuubi)

    OMG why is everyone saying that Sage mode has given him better control over the Kyuubi – did he not just go 8 tails and almost die?! What sasuke did was not genjutsu to stop the fox – his insight saw the kyuubi inside naruto – and if it was a genjutsu, how come naruto lost control of the kyuubi just by an illusion of sasuke palming its nose?

    “If we’re incorporating the individual’s personalities in this fight than let’s take away Itachi’s Amaterasu. Because Itachi would NEVER use Amaterasu on Naruto because he was on their “side” and wouldn’t want to kill him right?”
    Are you forgetting the fight with sasuke – he loved sasuke and was fighting him into a corner for sure – but he still used amaterasu twice (and one that acctually hit him – itachi wouldn’t have known that sasuke could do the substitution move he did + he wouldn’t have known how much damage Amaterasu would have done to sasuke when it hit).

    Also i didn;t say that naruto can’t go kyuubi – i’m saying that once he goes past 3 tails – HE IS FU*KED because he has no way of returning to normal anymore, and since the 4th most likely can’t make another appearance – who would stop the 8tails turning to 9?

    First of all check this site dude
    Naruto has only got a normal speed rateing of 2-3 out of 5 while Itachi has a 5/5. and since their has been no comparison of speed between either (although granted naruto sage+kyuubi is faster) we can’t say for sure that the sharingan couldn’t keep up.
    Also the depths or even anything hasn’t been revealed on the kyuubi+sage eyes so its just a wild guess really

    “Yes I read the manga but if you read Avatar’s post you would know that the LEVEL of technique is what matters in the end NOT only the element itself!”
    Are you possibly saying that an eye doujutsu of amateratsu could not be on the same level as FRS? Amateratsu is the pinicle of fire jutsu and your saying it isn;t on the same level as a FRS – ludicrous dude.

    Also i found the perfect link for this quote super
    “You want Itachi to burn the area around Naruto? How? Amaterasu can only target a single object not multiple ones!” ttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/394/01/
    What a flame of amaterasu spread to one plant – that then enveloped anentire forest? Yes it did – jump over that naruto.

    Also as sasuke showed and this link here i think proves that Itachi can disperse Amateratsu if he wants to
    Also Itachi knows He can create bunshins – why would he waste The Mangekyou Sharingan techs on the possibility that it could be naruto – he would know the cost of fu*king up so wouldn;t.

    Mortal Kombat eat your heart out.

  412. you guys seem to keep arguing to a de-powered naruto… i thought the debate stated a fully powered level set of each… sorry ibi, but your last comment stating a highly alerted kyuubi … doesn’t make sense towards the initial debate start off point. if both itachi and naruto are at their peaks and fully charged what is to say naruto cant access what he has?? simply to say genjutsu or something??

    like i said this debate seems to favour itachi by granting him things he doesn’t have at the moment and it also seems to lessen that greater strength of naruto… i thought it was fine to say naruto doesn’t even have the power itachi gave him as we actually haven’t seen what it could be or how it can be used… so using it or not doesn’t change anything.

    also if the fight is over b4 it starts if genjutsu is achieved why have a debate to begin with? it seems without stronger facts to what naruto is actually weak against and what he is strong towards its just endless i’m right your wrong comments back and forth…

    i still say naruto hands down will win. also im sure i will be chimed in with susano and amaterasu and genjutsu all triumph naruto so its doesn’t matter as itachi is unstoppable…

    also if naruto does a sonic fart itachi goes into a coma…naruto 1 itachi 0.


  413. @ibi – no comment? So SageKyuubi Naruto, when emotionally charged, can resist Genjutsu?

  414. tell you what, ibi. I’ll give you until the end of the hour to say yes or no. If you don’t, then I will claim victory and declare myself the winner of our mini-genjutsu debate…and with the cards stacking up in Naruto’s favour, you can’t afford that…mufufufu….

  415. all i can say is that in a one on one fight with the absolute intent to kill, itachi wins… at full strength itachi can control the kyuubi’s chakra suppresing it… not to mention his speed is faster than anyone, next to yondaime… look at saskue’s fight with killer, he handled him up to four tails, and saskue is weaker than itachi full strength… itachi is stronger, faster and has much more experience. Unless naruto came to the battle in sage mode, he would be killed relatively easily seeing as he must sit still for it to work, which doesn’t work to well against a man who is trying to kill you, single handedly beat brought three jounin to their knees without trying, and killed his entire family at thirteen… in the manga naruto always wins because he is the main character and catches all the breaks… but in reality itachi wins easily as far as i’m concerned. He’s too fast for naruto, he can negate the kyuubi’s chakra, he has stronger techniques in tsuykomi, amaterasu, and susano, and he is a master of gen, tai, and nin jutsu.

  416. @senshi: ohhh do i have to reply to all your 13 different arguements against myself, marksman and ahsan? Meh i dont think this server could handle my reply being as long as it would be XD lol. you made some good points but i just woke up, so i nod my head to you but can’t be f’ed replying. ohhh and i forgot the pretzels this time, something about getting them stollen last time really makes you dubious (and very sad), so no SOUP, i mean PRETZELS for you.

  417. @ibi – that’s it then…


    Now there are WAY too many advantages…Taijutsu: Frog Kata’s vs Standard Taijutsu = Frog Kata’s FTW! Ninjutsu: FRS vs Non MS Fire techniques = FRS FTW! Genjutsu: SageKyuubi Mode vs Standard Genjutsu: SK Naruto FTW! Speed: SK Naruto vs Itachi = SK Naruto FTW! (oh come on, you are telling me that the son of the fastest ninja in history with the added boost of senjutsu which we know makes him inhumanly fast AS WELL AS the impossible speed of the kyuubi, that Itachi is faster just cos kakashi said he is?!? Pffft.)

    All itachi has left is the MS techs! And we’ve already dealt with most of them…Tsukuyomi vs Kage Bunshin no Jutsu = KB FTW! Susano’o wears out the user and depletes chakra…Amaterasu is ALL he has left…

    This is gonna be easy as!

  418. Also on the whole can the RFS Beat Amaterasu

    “It is said that Amaterasu is the FIRE from hell which will never disappear until it has burned everything in its path”
    “It burns whatever the eye focuses on .. the black flames will converge on exactly that spot”
    “then they continue to burn until their target is completely eradicated..”

    also this link
    Shows that itachi can move Amaterasu after he has cast it … destroy FRS then continue to naruto.
    any questions?

  419. @mudshovel – LOL see I told you…all Itachi has left is Amaterasu…

  420. about sage mode breaking a genjutsu, first thats a theory, second, a genjutsu implies chakra being manipulated in somebodies brain, so the way to break free is changing your chakra flow, and yes sage mod could seem really effective here but, sage mode is also a pretty delicate balance of chakras, if you use it to break free from a genjutsu its very likely that it’ll ruin sage mode, and Naruto without sage mode< ITACHI

  421. @Ibiki: Now wait a minute. You cut off my words in that quote you put up. I know that there are two ways that Itachi can cast regular genjutsu. This is what I said,

    “The only way we know Itachi can get Naruto into genjutsu is by his opponent looking into his eyes (Which Naruto is not dumb enough to do) and having his opponent look at his purple painted fingernail (Which Naruto has already been caught in and we’ll not be dumb enough to fall for again).” (Supertrek) >__< I’m not going to debate the fact that even HALF the power of the Kyubi is more than enough to outdo the that Lighting strike. Seriously….

    4.) The reason he used Amaterasu on Sasuke is because he knew he would live from it. Remember he KNEW that Orochimaru was inside Sasuke and thus had his techniques. And here it is the Replacement Jutsu ttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/390/09/. The whole battle was engineered so that Itachi would lose and Sasuke would win. Do you really believe he’d set his brother on fire for 7 days and 7 nights without reason? He’d be screwing himself and his own plans over, lol!

    5.) I never said Naruto’s regular speed could beat Itachi’s…ever. I said his regular speed coupled with the speed gained from the Kyubi and Sage chakra.

    6.) I know Amaterasu can spread of course it’s a fire. I said “Amaterasu can only target a single object not multiple ones!” So he sets a clone on fire…what do you expect it to run and go hug another clone? 😉 If Itachi sets the ground on fire in front of Naruto. Do you how f**king high a ninja can jump? Yes, he can jump over the fire easily. Setting the ground on fire is a ridiculous move anyway because, again, once Itachi lets loose Amaterasu he has no control of it so the fire can also spread in his direction!

    7.) What Sasuke did to Naruto WAS genjutsu. “Insight”, “Psychic”, “Genjutsu” it’s all the same. What it basically is…is the opponent getting inside your head and controlling your chakra. Once again, Naruto has ways to fight the genjutsu now.

    Now where you were right

    1.) You’re right when you say that Amaterasu is an S class juts on the same level as FRS. Naruto still has other jutsus though that he can use to combat Itachi. So let’s not spam Amaterasu or FRS since neither would work it appears.

    Mortal Kombat has a heart? I never knew it was a living breathing entity… 😉

  422. Noom, ya egghead LOL read my above post! SageKyuubi Naruto CAN break genjutsu! READ BEFORE POSTING!!!

  423. Hehe…whoops. Ignore my above post it’s only half of what I really wrote… 😀

    @Ibiki: Now wait a minute. You cut off my words in that quote you put up. I know that there are two ways that Itachi can cast regular genjutsu. This is what I said,

    “The only way we know Itachi can get Naruto into genjutsu is by his opponent looking into his eyes (Which Naruto is not dumb enough to do) and having his opponent look at his purple painted fingernail (Which Naruto has already been caught in and we’ll not be dumb enough to fall for again).” (Supertrek) >__< I’m not going to debate the fact that even HALF the power of the Kyubi is more than enough to outdo the that Lighting strike. Seriously….

    4.) The reason he used Amaterasu on Sasuke is because he knew he would live from it. Remember he KNEW that Orochimaru was inside Sasuke and thus had his techniques. And here it is the Replacement Jutsu ttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/390/09/. The whole battle was engineered so that Itachi would lose and Sasuke would win. Do you really believe he’d set his brother on fire for 7 days and 7 nights without reason? He’d be screwing himself and his own plans over, lol!

    5.) I never said Naruto’s regular speed could beat Itachi’s…ever. I said his regular speed coupled with the speed gained from the Kyubi and Sage chakra.

    6.) I know Amaterasu can spread of course it’s a fire. I said “Amaterasu can only target a single object not multiple ones!” So he sets a clone on fire…what do you expect it to run and go hug another clone? 😉 If Itachi sets the ground on fire in front of Naruto. Do you how f**king high a ninja can jump? Yes, he can jump over the fire easily. Setting the ground on fire is a ridiculous move anyway because, again, once Itachi lets loose Amaterasu he has no control of it so the fire can also spread in his direction!

    7.) What Sasuke did to Naruto WAS genjutsu. “Insight”, “Psychic”, “Genjutsu” it’s all the same. What it basically is…is the opponent getting inside your head and controlling your chakra. Once again, Naruto has ways to fight the genjutsu now.

    Now where you were right

    1.) You’re right when you say that Amaterasu is an S class juts on the same level as FRS. Naruto still has other jutsus though that he can use to combat Itachi. So let’s not spam Amaterasu or FRS since neither would work it appears.

    Mortal Kombat has a heart? I never knew it was a living breathing entity… 😉

  424. @DarkAvatar: kinda childish huh? “Ah! Ah! you said it! you said it!” is what that breaks down to. Make points, don’t grasp at straws. I’m for Naruto cuz I love the lunkhead, and and the damned Uchiha get everything handed to them. Sharingan, greatest clan, etc…, F’n silver spoons. If Itachi didn’t kill them, then their smug would have combined with Clooney’s acceptance speech and created a storm to wipe away Kohona.

    @Mudshovel: You’ve got great points, but one error. The Kyuubi is the source of endless chakra. So, half of infinity is……that’s right infinity.

    @Ibiki: your facts and logic are flawless as always, and I guess that’s why in any confrontation with Itachi: Naruto was saved, or was spared. I’m still rooting for Naruto, but then again I’m a N.O. Saints fan, and I’m used to pulling for the most unlikely team.

  425. @avatar

    on ninjutsu statement, if youre comparing ninjutsu, its compltely dumb you make this “Ninjutsu: FRS vs Non MS Fire techniques = FRS FTW!” what?? y not MS techniques, i think that the fair thing there is either FRSvsAmateratsu =Amateratsu FTW or Narutos non sage nin vs Itachis non ms nin = Itachi FTW

    Also tsukuyomi vs KB = WTF!!!!

    Yes, sharingan has been fooled by KB but some other times it has been able to spot them, so theres no way we can know this.

    And as far as I know Minato was not the fastest ninja, he used Space-time nin to teleport!!

  426. DAMMIT, I did it again! Alright here’s the real one….I wonder if there’s any mods around…. >___< I’m not going to debate the fact that even HALF the power of the Kyubi is more than enough to outdo the that Lighting strike. Seriously….

    4.) The reason he used Amaterasu on Sasuke is because he knew he would live from it. Remember he KNEW that Orochimaru was inside Sasuke and thus had his techniques. And here it is the Replacement Jutsu ttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/390/09/. The whole battle was engineered so that Itachi would lose and Sasuke would win. Do you really believe he’d set his brother on fire for 7 days and 7 nights without reason? He’d be screwing himself and his own plans over, lol!

    5.) I never said Naruto’s regular speed could beat Itachi’s…ever. I said his regular speed coupled with the speed gained from the Kyubi and Sage chakra.

    6.) I know Amaterasu can spread of course it’s a fire. I said “Amaterasu can only target a single object not multiple ones!” So he sets a clone on fire…what do you expect it to run and go hug another clone? 😉 If Itachi sets the ground on fire in front of Naruto. Do you how f**king high a ninja can jump? Yes, he can jump over the fire easily. Setting the ground on fire is a ridiculous move anyway because, again, once Itachi lets loose Amaterasu he has no control of it so the fire can also spread in his direction!

    7.) What Sasuke did to Naruto WAS genjutsu. “Insight”, “Psychic”, “Genjutsu” it’s all the same. What it basically is…is the opponent getting inside your head and controlling your chakra. Once again, Naruto has ways to fight the genjutsu now.

    Now where you were right

    1.) You’re right when you say that Amaterasu is an S class juts on the same level as FRS. Naruto still has other jutsus though that he can use to combat Itachi. So let’s not spam Amaterasu or FRS since neither would work it appears.

    Mortal Kombat has a heart? I never knew it was a living breathing entity… 😉

  427. Fuck – gotta go to work – i’ll be back on in 5 hrs time – grrr i had all ready thought up counter arguements to your counter arguemnets XD. I promise you i will rebut your points super (also y did you direct it a ibiki?)

  428. WTF!!! Why is it only showing half my of posts? It’s like someone cut my comments in half! *looks around skeptically* =_=

  429. @Fab: your confabulation and misquote is unworthy of my attention. Learn to read.

    @Super: I cut off your words? OMG…how could I not? Debate’s about scoring points boys, not about talking until your opponent want to to put out their eyes. This is not a filibuster.
    Your arguments are all over the map and don’t address the points I’ve made. Are they in response to someone else?

    @Alec: amen, brotha. Buy you a soda.

  430. Just to Mudshovel first…

    @Mudshovel: Welcome back buddy to bad I gotta school ya! 😉

    Let me start this off by stating where you’re wrong.

    1.) Tsukoyomi- I suppose you also think Naruto is going to stand there like a stone statue then look up into Itachi’s eyes allowing him to use Tsukoyomi? Really? Don’t you think that Naruto who now knows both ways that Itachi can put him under genjutsu will not do everything possible from looking at those two spots (hands and eyes)? And one of those spots (hands) only casts genjutsu which Naruto can break out of. Once again you’ll seriously underestimate Naruto’s smarts on the battlefield.

    2.) Kage Bushin clones aren’t independent of one another? Come on you should know they are Mudshovel. Remember Kakashi’s training? They learn differently, they think differently, and they feel differently which is why he divided himself 1000 times to get the best learning experience. They do not feel each others pain and they do not share each others thought. They are connected through chakra which is why when the Kyubi appeared the chakra flow was disrupted ttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/441/04/ and the clones dissapeared. Them being connected through chakra does NOT mean that if you put one under genjutsu they all fall under genjutsu. How do I know this? Simply because when Jiraiya put three of the Peins under genjutsu Nagato, who was connected to them through chakra rods, did not also fall under genjutsu too.

    3.) Again with the Lighting Attack being stronger than the Nine Tailed Bijuu! >_< I’m not going to debate the fact that even HALF the power of the Kyubi is more than enough to outdo the that Lighting strike. Seriously….

    [I edited it this time. Obviously you put a lot of time and effort in it, but you already said the statements that I removed….twice. -Ero]

  431. super: I thought his point was if you put a clone under Genjutsu then if it released (by force even) it will put the host under (like the way sage mode caries over to the host.

  432. @Ero – childish I may be, but so what? This debate is getting to the point of ridiculous…I mean come on! Noom is arguing that Minato wasn’t the fastest ninja! WTF?!?

    We’ve won this damn thing already…

  433. If any of the moderators read this the above posts not directed at Mudshovel can be deleted. Should be deleted actually since they’re a waste of space. They are the ones that start

    1.) “@Ibiki: Now wait a minute…”

    2.) “Hehe…whoops. Ignore my above post it’s only half of what I really wrote… :D”


    3.) “DAMMIT, I did it again! Alright here’s the real one….I wonder if there’s any mods around…. ”

    Arigato sorry for the trouble. Don’t know what was happening there so I just took out the Ibiki part and VOILA it posted the whole thing! *Looks at Ibiki suspiciously* 0_0

    Lol, jkjk……

  434. LOL @ ibi…It’s FOBKAGE. YOU learn to read.

  435. @dark: I don’t know about “won”, and its not that kind of thing anyway. You don’t ‘win’, even if all your points were correct (hypothetically, I am not saying that they are) you don’t win unless you change your ‘opponent’s’ mind. Any chance of that is ruined by aggravating them. This isn’t like the Chuck/Swayze thing, that’s just laughable patter. On Naruto subjects, and here, you have to win over your detractors to ‘win’.

  436. @ ero – genjutsu is too precise to just change targets once the original KB disperses. When genjutsu is cast, the user is focusing on the one target, which in this case is a KB. Once KB disperses, would the genjustu user’s focus automatically snap back to the original? No. That’s why Itachis tsukuyomi did not affect Kakashi after his KB dispersed…”

  437. WTF!!! NOOooooOOOooooOOOO! The wrong post got deleted! >_< GAH!!! *suspicious*

    [hey! read the bottom of your post. I edited it, you had cut and pasted, you already have it up there twice….relax. – Ero]

  438. ALRIGHT THIS IS MY REAL POST PLEASE DON’T DELETE!!! >__< I’m not going to debate the fact that even HALF the power of the Kyubi is more than enough to outdo the that Lighting strike. Seriously….

    4.) The reason he used Amaterasu on Sasuke is because he knew he would live from it. Remember he KNEW that Orochimaru was inside Sasuke and thus had his techniques. And here it is the Replacement Jutsu ttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/390/09/. The whole battle was engineered so that Itachi would lose and Sasuke would win. Do you really believe he’d set his brother on fire for 7 days and 7 nights without reason? He’d be screwing himself and his own plans over, lol!

    5.) I never said Naruto’s regular speed could beat Itachi’s…ever. I said his regular speed coupled with the speed gained from the Kyubi and Sage chakra.

    6.) I know Amaterasu can spread of course it’s a fire. I said “Amaterasu can only target a single object not multiple ones!” So he sets a clone on fire…what do you expect it to run and go hug another clone? 😉 If Itachi sets the ground on fire in front of Naruto. Do you how f**king high a ninja can jump? Yes, he can jump over the fire easily. Setting the ground on fire is a ridiculous move anyway because, again, once Itachi lets loose Amaterasu he has no control of it so the fire can also spread in his direction!

    7.) What Sasuke did to Naruto WAS genjutsu. “Insight”, “Psychic”, “Genjutsu” it’s all the same. What it basically is…is the opponent getting inside your head and controlling your chakra. Once again, Naruto has ways to fight the genjutsu now.

    Now where you were right

    1.) You’re right when you say that Amaterasu is an S class juts on the same level as FRS. Naruto still has other jutsus though that he can use to combat Itachi. So let’s not spam Amaterasu or FRS since neither would work it appears.

    Mortal Kombat has a heart? I never knew it was a living breathing entity… 😉

  439. WTF!!!! GAH!!!! My comment was cut in HALF AGAIN!!! *gives up and goes to room to plot evil plots* Muhahahahahhahaha!!!! @_@

  440. you are seriously trying my nerves.

  441. @Ero: What’s going on here? Only half of my comment is posted and the one that actually makes it all the way through is deleted immediately! I’m not exactly beaming sunshine right now and I’m not blaming anyone seriously. I’m just curious to what’s going on with my comments! >_<

    [dude (i used dude, serious face), chill. No one’s out to get your posts, but the duplication no jutsu is annoying. *Thank* Ero for helping you out with some requested deletions, and if there’s more to be said please take it offsite. The mods have enough to be doing without having to provide personal maid/butler service. -Ibi]

  442. these debate is getting completely ridiculos

    just call it a draw and move on


    who do you think will win

    sasugay vs jiraiya

    Sasuke has MS already

    Personally i think Sasuke will OWN jiraiya in this one with a hand tied to his knee

    Think im wrong???


  443. Noom, dude, don’t tempt me.

  444. cmon i challenge u

    sasuke has MS some crazy lightning stuff Genjutsu, speed and some good tai what else do u neeed to beat an old man??

  445. Noom, really, no. It’s not worth it.

  446. guess you cant defend jiraiya then …

    ok fine


  447. @Ibiki: Alright, I won’t try to post that comment anymore and I was just joking about someone being out to get me…heh…*burns secret plans to uncover the truth*… 😀

    About my response to your post. Yeah, I know it seemed all over the place and that’s because most of it was directed at Mudshovel. Only half of it kept appearing though.

    @Ero: Sorry man if you got annoyed by my posts. Must be something wrong with my computer or server. Thanks anyways. 😉

    @Noom: Ridiculous? THIS IS IAREAWESOMENESS!!!

    Sasuke vs. Jiraiya and you say Sasuke wins????

    Is it just me or will you side with anyone who has that damned sharingan? Now that’s ridiculous! 😉

  448. actually i posted this because the other debate is getting ridiculous and repetitive and i dont think that kind of arguments are leading the debate anywere good so…

    i call it a DRAW and offer you guys a new debate

    (i sided with sasuke because i guessed that most people will side with jiraiya so..)

  449. Here are some of the rules

    Sasuke has MS and is full power

    Jiraiya is also full power, but not in sage mode (although he can turn into it)

    they encounter in the middle of a thick and dark forest

    Everything goes!!

  450. Noom….this debate won’t go so well for you and I suggest that you drop and forget about it…you had your fair warning but if you insist on it then be my guest. I’m not taking apart in it though and I think most people would know where my vote lies in this debate. 😉

  451. well even though i may be ona dissadvantage here i still think sasuke has a chance to win

    the place is good for him, jiraiya is not on SM, he has MS (amateatsu and tsukuyomi) even susano can wake during the battle, he has imroved a lot scince the last time he fought naruto and he also has that super crazy lightning strike and so on and so on and so on… so yeah im willing to be raped by Jiraiyas team ill try at least

  452. Ok, I’m calmer now. Lololol

    It’s just, I’ve thrown all these points at people and they’re just disregarded unless they are worded a specific way. A la ibiki. It’s like I have to learn a different language! Or maybe I really AM a stupid Samoan…:(

    LOL whatever. Me and the team have now spent forever destroying the itachi arguments, and the best they come up with is “um, no…master of genjutsu…ms…fire jutsu pwns wind…” it’s frustrating!

    Meh. I know what I’m talking about. Itachi no longer has the genjutsu advantage, and that along with Amaterasu, are the lifelines you guys hang on to. I will end this argument.

    I will be at an actual computer soon. Better watch the f*ck out…I ain’t following the laws of the swayze, I follow the laws of the Norris, bitches!!!

  453. @DarkAvatar

    Hey there, backup has arrived again!!! XD

    @Itachi vs Naruto

    Alright, I have been reading the numerous posts that have popped up since I have been gone and all I can say is that there is a common argument all the time.

    Genjutsu, genjutsu and genjutsu.

    You guys are relying too much on Naruto being caught in a genjutsu. You are basing your entire argument on something that is so circumstantial it isn’t funny.

    It is almost as though you are comparing ITachi to NAruto as he was 100 chapters ago and not as he is now.

    There are many ways for Naruto to break a genjutsu.

    1: if he is in a genjutsu, it means he is standing still, that Means he can absorb sage chakra to break it.

    2: if he uses a shadow clone to break it he is free.

    3: He can summon a shadow clone beforehand and use it as a distraction.

    AS I said, it all depends on circumstances. Genjutsu does not mean instant win so try something new for a change.

  454. @ DarkAvatar

    Alright, backup has arrived!!! XD

    @ Itachi vs Naruto

    I have been reading the comments while I have been gone and there seems to be a reccuring argument throughout the Itachi camp and that is genjutsu, genjutsu, genjutsu.

    To be honest, it is almsot as though you guys are comparing Itachi to NAruto as he was 100 chapters ago. He is different now and he isn’t likely to fall for the same trick again. You rely too much on the scenario of Nauto getting trapped in a genjutsu, but that is far too circumstantial for a real comparison.

    We are comparing who is more powerful, not who will win a battle if Naruto gets caught in a genjutsu right at the beginning. Not to mention that he has numerous ways of avoiding or even dispelling a genjutsu.

    1: If he is standing still in a genjutsu, that means that he can absorb sage chakra. Absorbing sage chakra will disrupt the genjutsu because it is an outside chakra source entering his body. If he can mold his chakra by stopping it and then charging it as he showed at the of shippuuden, even while caught in a genjutsu, then he can absorb sage chakra as well. In fact, Itachi will just be providing him the perfect opportunity to go into sage mode and pwn his ass.

    2: Secondly, he can summon a shadow clone beforehand for that scenario. He managed to hide numerous clones against Pein without him noticing, so what is to say he won’t do the same against Itachi? A clone can dispell the genjutsu as well by forcing its chakra into the original’s body.

    3: Naruto can send a clone in first, thus making a genjutsu ineffective. Kakashi managed to fool Itachi with a clone, so Naruto can too. Also, the clones split their chakra evenly through each body, which means that Itachi won’t be able to tell the difference between a clone and the real Naruto, as demonstrated with Neji in the chunin exam finals.

    4: Naruto has clones gathering sage chakra in another location. When he gets trapped in a genjutsu, a clone dispels itself and bingo, instant genjutsu dispel and sage mode.

    Also this thing about it taking too long to go into sage mode is nonsense. Naruto can just let a clone gather the sage energy and go into sage mode in a second flat. Once again, people’s arguments are becoming too circumstantial and they are not looking at the bigger picture. Even my argument now is showing specific circumstances that could counter those arguments, but at the end of the day, it comes down to who is a better fighter and who has what it takes to turn the battle.

    Naruto has what it takes to turn a battle in its head with his cunning and ingenuity, that much has been shown. I am not just saying that either, ebcause it is what I honestly believe and I am not being a fanboy.

    If someone asked me who would win in a battle between Naruto and Itachi a few more chapters back, I would have said Itachi without batting an eyelid, but times have changed and Naruto has surpassed him now. That much is obvious when you look back and see how he has handled the battle with Pein.

  455. @Super: Which one’s the real 1? lol i got this – all right i’m back on for a couple of hrs, time to turn your supertrek into superdrek – thats right i went their lol jkjk.

    1) Tsukuyomi: No i obviously didn’t get my point across – He can create ways to make naruto look into his eyes – its not really that hard if you think about it, use grand fire ball, predict were naruto would evade to – grab him – what Tsukuyomi. 1st of all are you kidding, a master genjutsu user and can only cast it in 2 ways? xtremely doubtful
    2nd of all – what ibiki said is still valid – to break out of the genjutsu he must stop his own chakra flow (out of sage mode) then apply chakra at full force to stop it – and if you were reading the manga when he tried normally – itachi didn’t give him very long to sit around and do nothing

    2) Kage bunshins – I never meant to imply that if one fell under genjutsu they all did (my bad didn;t explain very well + i’ll add to that arguement)- i meant that naruto (original) if captured in a genjutsu, pain and chakra flow would both come into play – yes they are connected in some way – when naruto went 2tails against Deidra why did the others clones start doubleing over in pain before disspersing (connection) also if naruto wanted to break out of the genjutsu he would stop the chakra flow and that would also disperse them. (i dont really know why i’m debateing this point – its irrelevant to my arguement anyway)

    3) Lightning attack: What proof is there to say that it isn’t as strong as something the half kyuubi could create? You just don’t want to admit that it could be, cause then your whole kyuubi vs susano’o arguement must be flawed. And while i’m on the subject – what can naruto do to stop susano’o? the only arguement you have put forward on that is that it takes alot of chakra and that the kyuubi might be able to do it. True it might take a bit of chakra but what deidra saw was when Itachi was chakra exausted all ready and he was dying at the time, also there is no evidence what so ever to support that the kyuubi could break it – the totsuka sword (think that;s what it’s called) and its permanent sealing genjutsu – one hit with that and its all over.

    4)I realise that – but what he was really trying to hit with amaterasu was sasuke’s ‘wings’ from the cursed seal. then as i pointed in my link above, he can stop amaterasu much the same as sasuke can.

    5) Itachi sharingan should be able to keep track of him at this stage, that plus his own speed and seal speed, he should be able to get himself out of that problem

    6)What about this link super
    It shows that Itachi can move amaterasu after he has cast it, in case you try to dodge it.

    7)kyuubi is suspetible to genjutsu as you have said, another weakness in case he converts somehow (besides the point that itachi could most likely surpress it anyway).

    Mortal Kombat eat your heart out (you super Mwhahaha) na that was lame joke before that obviously zoomed over your head much like the sarcastic reply to it you left me lol.

  456. @mudshovel

    Ah, mudcleaver is back again… without the pretzels… ^ ^

    I hope you read my above post about genjutsu. Also your argument is based heavily on very specific circumstances. What if Naruto was smart as well and hid behind the grand fireball and created a shadow clone. Or went underground and out of view like Kakashi did, thus hiding him from Itachi’s view and allowing him to escape to a safe location?

    Naruto could fight the whole battle with shadow clones if he wanted to and keep his real body out of the equation. The point is that we are arguing circumstances and not overall power. I say Naruto is stronger than Itachi, period.

  457. *sorry on the 3rd point in my arguemnet i meant “what Zetsu saw when itachi was….” not what deidra saw – my bad

  458. @senshi: that was just an example of how he could get naruto to look into Tsukuyomi, also yea im reading it atm – will try and post a reply (pls let him be lying so i can rage – na jk jk).

  459. @ mud – not to mention, if naruto goes kyuubi to break the susano’o you would have to imagine him using at-least 8-tails to do it. (susano’o is as stong as chibaku tensei AT LEAST)… the fourth and yamato arent gonna be there to help him get out of kyuubi mode again, so he’ll just go all the way to 9-tails and die while the kyuubi takes complete control, leading in a stalemate if he does break through susano’o, and Itachi’s win if he doesn’t get past it….. not very good odds either way for naruto

    Then on top of all that, there is the matter of the Sword of Totsuka… It is the ultimate sealing sword – chances are it could put the kyuubi in a permanent genjutsu like Oro OR, at the very least re-seal it so naruto returns to normal… weak as shit and ready for a genjutsu play-date with Itachi…..

    …. kyuubi cake.. mmmm yummy 😉 (see chat room for reference)

  460. @senshi: first of all of course genjutsu, genjutsu … Itachi is known for his genjutsu and nijutsu while naruto is ninjutsu and stamina. Also i can’t speak for anyone else, i agree he is stronger now, but you can’t completely disreguard what happened 100 chapters ago.
    Also the title says ‘Nin debate battle’ – umm battle.

    I’m gonna referance something that happened about 50 chapters ago – what about when itachi caught naruto in a genjutsu in the forest when he was alone (yes b4 sage training – you can lower the rage you were gonna reply super jk). Naruto didn’t he even know he was in Itachi’s genjutsu until he told him so.

    1) yea but the whole point of genjutsu is to mess up the opponents mind, so why is everyone assumeing he is gonna have a chance to stay still and gather senjutsu.

    2) not if he is unaware of the genjutsu – if he thinks he could be, Itachi knows he can create alot of bunshins and it is only naruto who (if in a genjutsu) can’t interact with reality, Itachi on the otherhand is still aware of his surroundings.

    3)Yes Kakashi managed to fool itachi with a clone – Kakashi. Itachi commented that the use of the jutsu Kakashi did plus the bunshin was perfect – does naruto know any earth jutsu to fool Itachi – plus would he fall for it again? Also remember he was at 30% at the time so his jutsu were limited.

    4)that would dbe a very useful trick – put what disperses the clones (against Pein – fukusaku did it – how would naruto disple the clone?) also this is a huge risk – if he has more than 1 clone gathering senjutsu and they all disperse – an overload of senjutsu and naruto is a frog.

    Dude a second flat? come on he’s gotta stay perfectly still, concentrate, gather the senjutsu (perfect balance) then disperse and that all happens in a second? fair go

    True but we can’t take into account alot of that the will to never give up crap – cause if the show was named sakura – she would have that will and naruto wouldn’t – we can only determine this this through abilities and skill and past experiences.

  461. @Ix ReFleX xI

    You are making a big assumtpion by saying that Susanoo is as strong as chibaku tenshi, seeing as we have no evidence of that. Pein ripped a giant hole in the earth with chibaku tenshi and swallowed up half of Konoha’s forest with it. Susanoo hasen’t shown that kind of power yet.

    Itachi and his susanoo would be swallowed up (along with everything else in a 10 kilometer radius) and having a nice warm hug with chibaku tenshi. How can you escape a technique that draw every bit of physical matter to its centre over such a large area. no ninja is fast enough to escape that and Itachi would be pwned just as quickly and there would be no way of stopping it.

    He also doesn’t have enough power to break free from it, something Naruto only managed to do after going 8-tails. Susanoo as strong as chibaku tenshi? I don’t think so, because the evidence shows otherwise.

  462. @ tenrai – thats not the point of the argument – the point is, if naruto had to go to kyuubi to destroy it his kyuubi power would go unchecked, allowing him to die… giving itachi the win/draw

  463. @ tenrai – oh and it hasnt shown that kind of power??? it withstood a lightning attack that zetsu himself said was stronger than any lightning element humans were capable of creating..

    now do you think that chibaku tensei, made of EARTH could withstand an epic LIGHTNING attack – its elemental weakness – like susano’o did????? lemme answer that for you… NOPE!!!

    besides, as i already said, that isnt the main point…… lemme hear you argue what really matters in all that……

  464. @senshi: yea dude i agree with the circumstances point you made dude.
    @reflex: Yea the kyuubi is helping us this time lol.

  465. Go Tenrai!!! I’m writing up a comparison of Amaterasu and FRS…I found a flaw with Amaterasu, which would stop itachi from being able to block FRS with it…

    We’ve dealt with all of itachi’s advantages sufficiently now…Susano’o being the only thing Itschi can do against Naruto that has a chance at beating him…perhaps I could look into Susano’o as well…as soon as reflex stops banging it long enough for me to get a good look at it ;P

  466. It’s late for me and it took forever to read all the arguments I missed while working today, so all I’ll say is …

    ITACHI FTW! ^_^

  467. @ dark – now that was uncalled for….

    oh and you seem to be forgetting itachi’s other strength – the Sword of Totsuka – it seems that “Susano’o being the only thing Itschi can do against Naruto that has a chance at beating him” is a lie as well… now who’s making random arguments with out proof or thought ehh DarkAvatar????

  468. @senshi: yea dude i agree with the circumstances point you made.
    @reflex: Yea the kyuubi is helping us this time lol.
    @Dark: Lol BRING IT ON, wait a minute i’ve stoped debateing you – go wait in the corner.

  469. one last argument on why itachi would win

    Itachi’s guaranteed win plan:
    1. Use susaono’o right off the bat
    2. Use totsuka right off the bat before naruto goes kyuubi
    3. Fights over before it began

    ITACHI FTW!!!!
    F**k Dark, Tenrai, Super, DrO and whoever the f**k else went with Naruto
    Elfarren, Ibi, Miah, Mud, Ahsan: + 10,000 awesomeness points all of you (now wheres my pie at!!)

  470. lol reflex, looks like me and super will be debateing until next weeks breakdown at this stage … lol

  471. ps. im just kidding about the above comment so please dont get offeneded people.. please??

  472. @Ix ReFleX xI

    I never said it didn’t show power, just that it is stupid to immediately assume that it is as strong as chibaku tenshi. Don’t misread my comments.

  473. @flex – LOL dude…when I say “susano’o” I mean Totsuka and Yata mirror as well.

    @mudshovel – awww…I don’t wanna wait! I wanna kick ur ass NOW!!! lol

  474. @dark: you wish – That’s it I’ll take you all! lol

  475. @Ix ReFleX xI

    As I’ve mentioned before, I don’t like to bring the Kyuubi into the situation, because to me that is not Naruto’s power. There are other ways to get past Susanoo, because everything has a weakness.

    Raw power won’t work, that much was shown with Sasuke’s attempt to break it, but that doesn’t mean it is impenetrable.

    If Naruto found a way past Shinra Tenshi, he will find a way past Susanoo.

  476. If they fight right now i gotta say Itachi on this one, just cause of the sharingan. Last time sasuke saw the Naruto he sealed the kyuubi. And naruto had to use all three of his sage battery clones in his last fight with pain. So if right now they fight narutos gonna burn out before itachi even has to use susanoo. Right from what ive seen pein was working for madara so that means he’s weaker, and itachi told sasuke he was stronger than madara. So itachi would super smash naruto.

  477. @Tenrai Senshi
    when naruto talked with the 4th he told him that je sealed the fox in him cause he believed he could use it so thats gonna end up being narutos power. but like i said sharingan controls that. thats why is so sure whatever he got from itachi is gonna stop madara and sasuke from controlling him. But in this fight he doesnt have itachi’s hand me downs. so itachis would own him

  478. BUBBLE:

    Konan- Maybe instead of thrusting black rods you should suck him in…

    Nagato- no, it’s not my style…

    Naruto- bullshit! I bet you could suck a golf ball through a garden hose.

  479. BUBBLE: 😀

    Konan: “So how did it go Naruto?”

    Nagato: “Yeah! Did you win?”

    Naruto: “Phew, give me a minute to wipe this shit off. My foot was shoved so far up Itachi’s ass I made that bitch sing soprano.”

  480. @skyhigh303

    That is not true, because he hasn’t even used Itachi’s hand me downs and he’s still kicking ass. We don’t even know what Itachi’s power was that he gave Naruto, so that invalid at this point in time.

    it could have been something subtle, for all we know, so don’t assume that it weakened Itachi or super powered Naruto.

    Also, Naruto is beyond Kage level. He is pwning the one person who defeated the leader of the Hidden Rain village. The same person who defeated Jiraiya, Orochimaru and Tsunade as well as an squadren of Konoha nins by himself. that means he is also stronger than Jiraiya, Tsunade and Oro put together.

    Do the maths. Itachi may have been strong, but even he retreated from Jiraiya after using Tsukyomi just once. He would never have been able to defeat all three sanin at once, but Pein could have.

  481. @supertrek89

    YEAH!!!! That’s the spirit!!!! Go team Naruto!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! XD

  482. I’m not sure why people think Madara or Itachi could take control of the Kyuubi. The main reason this can’t happen in a fight is because the Kyuubi gives Naruto chakra, but doesn’t come out to play. I think the 4th might have sealed the Kyuubi inside Naruto to have a fair distance between the Kyuubi and anyone with the Sharingan.

    And as for any kind of genjutsu attack against Naruto. I think sage mode ‘does’ help. The idea that sage chakra would go away if his chakra was disturbed doesn’t sound quite right to me. I would think chakra is chakra and Naruto could just get right out of a tsukayomi. I can’t wait to see Naruto beat the Sharingan.

  483. @Super – ROFLMAO XD!!!!!

    No access to a computer till tomorrow…argument is all typed up in phone and emailed to work server…so it’s coming, bitches…

  484. Wow this argument is still going strong eh? Terai Senshi is back now. I can start arguing my points again that people have already posted about 40 times already,and after i do it again it will problably be posted another 40 times afterward. “Sigh”
    OK where do i start.
    @supertrek: Pa frog said that natural energy is harder to since however he didnt say nothing about sharingan. Ok im am going to say this again. I am going to take one of you famouse moves. (ahem)Please go to the manga and find a link that says Specifically sharingan cannot see sage chakra!!! I have a feeling i am going to repaet that question again.

    Ok if sage mode naruto is caught in an illusion and trys to gather more sage energy to disrupt the flow of chakra the chakra will then become unbalanced causing naruto to turn into a frog.

    Hmmm as for itachi. You know the boy is hard when madara himself saw him as a threat. We have see sage modes true potential in naruto. We have never seen itachis true potentail. But do to itachi having more fighting experience, having greater speed, better tijistu and genjistu the obvious winner is itachi. Even if naruto tried to release the kyubi itachi would just seal it back like sasugay did.

    “sigh” Here we go again. Please dont get offended guys. Its an argument and im just arguing my side like everyone else

  485. @ marksman – Show me a link that says that it can specifically see sage chakra. …no? OK, how bout a link to a frame in sharingans POV that shows sage chakra in it? …no again? Hmmmmm….

    Methinks that in this case the absence of evidence equals evidence of absence…

  486. @The Incredible Marksman

    Hmmm, my adversary has arrived again. It is time to let the weights fall and the punches flow through.

    Anyway, I don’t get offended by other people’s opinions, because debating is healthy brain exercise for smart people. XD

    As for taijutsu, Naruto’s is better, unless you can show me Itachi throwing a giant rino into the air. Naruto has just as much speed as shown in his battle with Pein and he can hit harder than Itachi has ever shown to.

    In terms of ninjutsu, I’d call it even. Itachi has Amatarasu and his katon jutsu (I am not mentioning Tsukyomi and Susanoo, becauses those are genjutsu, which will be addressed next). Naruto has rasenshuriken the giant Oodama rasengan, rasengan and shadow clones, all of which are A-rank or higher..

    In terms of genjutsu, Itachi obviously has the edge in that department so I’m not going to bother posting examples.

    So, in terms of the three major factors of ninjutsu, taijutsu and genjutsu, they end up in a draw. So who is better comes down to the other remaining factors.

    Naruto has shown just as much smarts as Itachi or any other genius in battle. He has also shown that he can think on his feet and adapt to just about any situation. Itachi is a born genius of the Uchiha clan, and he is a capable warrior who can read his opponent’s moves. unfortunately, I believe that is Itachi’s disadvantage.

    He relies too much on the power given to him and he was lsoing his vision because of it, along with the other health threats such as chakra depletion and the physical strain of using the Mangyeko sharingan. A jutsu isn’t half as effective if it damages you almost as much as your opponent.

    Naruto had the same problem with Rasenshuriken, but now he has fixed that problem. We have seen him use it about ten times without damaging himself and all he has to do to use it again is reactivate sage mode. Itachi uses amatarasu once and he has to retreat from battle because of exhaustion.

    He relies too much on a power obtained through nothing more than a simple act, rather than relying on his own strength. Without the sharingan he is nothing. naruto was nothing but he worked hard to gain strength and it is his own power and skill, not something obtained cheaply. He is stronger because of that and he is strong in the right way.

  487. @ marksman:
    like one of the posts of mine before…Rinnegan is said to share the same characteristics as Sharingan/Byakugan in that it can sense chakra…but yet Preta Pain was still owned by the natural energy surging through Naruto’s body…Deva Pain was even confused, because he thought that Preta had deflected the blow…now tell me, if it shares the same characteristics of sharingan, why couldn’t he avoid the extended reach?

  488. DarkAvatar: Wussup with your offensive comments man?!!! Seeing that the case that neither one of us can provide those two specific peices of evidense we cant assume that sharigan can see sage chakra or cant.So its a stale mate.

    Ahh Tenrai Senshi the worth advesary is here. Great! You make good points. I would argue with some of them but to be honest im finished with this debate. This argument has been going for so long that i have lost all interest in backing itachi any futher. Good Match you give though. And your arguments are reasonalble and have no tension or sarcasm in it. I can actually see you winning me over in an argument. But not this one. This one im going to just go out on a limb and call it even.

    Ok back to BUBBLES

  489. ok Drosensei. Good point.

  490. @The Incredible Marksman

    Alright, I will accept your offer of peace. *Shakes hand*

    Our battle has been long and you have been a worthy adversary, so we will call it quits between us as a mutual show of respect… ^ ^

    BUT, the rest of you aren’t off so easily!!!! I am here to battle if anyone has it in them to challenge me!!! XD

    At this point I will also try to think of some bubbles, but I will remain ever watchful in case my input is needed again.

  491. BUBBLE

    1: So Nagato, I here that you came up with a new name for the Rinnegan.

    2: Yes that is correct. I NOW DUB THEE…. EMO-EYES!!!!!!!!!!!

    3: HAHAHAHA!!!! Sorry guys, but that one is already taken! Just ask Sasuke!

  492. BUBBLE

    Kohan: Yea thats right. Im looking at you. I can do that.

    Nagato: So naruto is here to discuss pease eh?

    Naruto: No! Im here to discuss food, Why the hell are you so skinny?

  493. There was only one time I can remember that Sasuke repressed the Kyuubi chakra. It seems like that same power would help Itachi win, but we’ve only seen Sauske do this. I think Sasuke repressing another persons chakra is a matter of his will and Sharingan put together. Repressing the Kyuubi chakra is more like when Sasuke was able to take over Orochimaru’s mind with his will alone (possibly with the help of Sharingan). So two main points:

    Naruto didn’t do anything to stop Sasuke from repressing the Kyuubi’s chakra.

    And again, there was no ‘taking control’ of the Kyuubi going on.

    Itachi cannot take control of Naruto’s biju unless the biju is released from the seal and acting on it’s own.

  494. BUBBLE

    1: Nagato, we have a new recruit for the extreme weight-loss program.

    2: Ah yes, lets get started immediately. The first thing you have to do is empty out all the lunch you’ve had today or any previous meals still present in you digestive system. Vomiting is encouraged.

    3: Alright, here we go!

  495. Everything that’s everything has been pointed at, picked out, cried over, and pissed on in this debate. I can honestly say that both sides are going around in circles with no conclusion reached. If anybody brings up something NEW then let me know. But if people make any bogus claims you best believe I’m jumping on it. 😉

    @Of815: Good point.

    @Marksman: *sigh* Well since you still refuse to provide a link to back up your claims then I don’t know what else to say besides the fact that Sharingan can’t see Natural Energy. At least I provided links of evidence showing the Sharingan not being able to see Natural Energy. Remember Natural Energy not Chakra.

    …Eh, what’s this? You call it a draw to work on bubbles! Damn and I was just getting warmed up! >_< Lol, no hard feelings Marks? 😮

    @Marksman: I’ll be getting to your post in just a second.

  496. @supertrek89

    Ah, Marksman and I have battled for a while now and have seen one another’s worthiness, so we have decided to remain on the sidelines until the battle needs us again.

    I am up to any challenge posed to me though, so don’t assume I’ve simply stopped. I am waiting for a reasonable challenge and right now everyone seems to have been drained of their creativity.

    I think I’ve made my point though, so now it is simply a matter of time.

  497. Dont bother supertrek. If you havent noticed or if you are choosing not to notice im am done with this debate.Im Done as in Im NOT ARGUING ANYMORE!!!!!!!!!! O_O

    Besides ibiki already argued legitamently i might add against your points. And yes you did put up a good argument against her that kept being deleted or cut in half because it was so D#$% long.
    Fair game and no hard feelings.

  498. Whoops my last one was directed at Mudshovel not Marksman…

    @Mudshovel: Now for your comment. This is going to be simple and straight to the point because I’m tired of arguing over these points over and over again. >__<

    *Super goes to play Mortal Kombat* “Get over here Mudshovel!” 😀

  499. @Marksman: Lol, of course no hard feelings and I already acknowledged you were done debating maybe you missed it?

    @Tenrai: Indeed the creativity and new ideas in this debate were exhausted long ago. We’re just poking a dead cat with a stick now. Ewwww…and it’s starting to stink. >_< I just gotta respond to Mudshvel’s post so that he doesn’t feel ignored.

  500. BUBBLE:

    Konan: We told you Big Brother was watching.

    Nagato: Welcome to room 101, Get ready to get stuck with my rod and receive the EMO virus.

    Naruto: nooo…Two plus Two is Five, Two plus Two is Five, Two plus two is Five.

  501. @Mudshovel:

    1.) Tsukoyomi- Of course Itachi will do whatever he can to trick Naruto into genjutsu (By looking into his eyes and/or hands). But don’t neglect that it also works vice versa. Naruto will be doing whatever he can NOT to be put under genjutsu. It works both ways.

    2.) Agreed, this is irrelevant to the argument.

    3.) Lighting Attack- You’re right. I can’t provide proof that half of the Nine Tailed Kyubi’s chakra is stronger than Sasuke’s Lighting Attack. I also can’t provide perfect evidence that a professional fighter would beat the shit out of a regular fighter. But I’ll sure as hell take my bet on the professional. 😉

    All I have been saying about Susano anyway is that it’s only been tested against Sasuke’s “Kirin” technique and his Kunai Explosive tags. I wonder though what would happen if the 6 Tailed Kyubi blasted the hell out of Susano with a chakra blast not to mention an 8 Tailed Kyubi. I NEVER said the Kyubi could break Susano just to set things straight. In any case Susano and Kyubi are both last ditch efforts when both opponents are exhausted, so I’d rather people not spam them to much on both sides of the debate.

  502. oh. Sorry for the explosion then supertrek.

  503. 4.) He can stop releasing Amaterasu but he can’t smother and dissipate it like Sasuke can.

    5.) I guess we both assume one is faster than the other. We know how fast Itachi is 5/5 but we don’t know how fast Naruto is with the Kyubi chakra. We all know it increases his speed greatly though. Not only that but now adding Sage chakra on top of that his speed is up for debate. Since we don’t know nor do we have conclusive evidence I say this is a draw.

    6) Yes, Itachi can move and direct Amaterasu but what if he’s using all of that energy on a Kage Bushin, which has been proven not even the sharingan can tell the difference between them and the original. Look how much energy it took for him to do that ttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/390/07/. He’d be boned if he just caught a Kage Bushin.

    7) Kyuubi is suspetible to genjutsu…Madara’s genjutsu. I’ll say again that he’s the only proven Uchiha that has taken control of the Kyubi. Read Of815’s post above. We don’t know if Itachi can do what Sasuke did and it was genjutsu anyway which for the 100th time Naruto now has ways to fight! >_<

  504. @Marksman: Bah! Don’t worry about it dude. Miscommunication = Shit Happens! Lol 😉

  505. yeah it is kinda hard to say for sure that would win when no ones really seen him fight at 100%. But that;s partly my point at the level he was at when he fought sasuke he was almost unstoppable there wasn’t one thing sasuke did that he didn’t have some kinda of response for, and he took oro out in 5 seconds flat with susanoo. But heres what I’m saying itachi in his prime was enough to slaughter what was considered the strongest village in konoha. So far they’ve hinted at the fact he was stronger than pein, Naruto in sage mode still couldnt save hinata or pa toad and he almost ended up losing if it wasnt for him getting inspired by meetin his pops. As far as itachi retreating from jiriaya goes he kinda did that cause of that whole frogs mouth thing he had no choice but to use tsukiyomi or get swallowed.

  506. @supertrek89
    i agree with all your points cept I think Itachi can out amaterasu . Remember in his fight with sasuke he said he wanted his eyes right but he still used amaterasu. so he would have had to have a way to out the flames otherwise sasukes eyes would have burned too

  507. @skyhigh303

    Hmmm, someone has bated me. I’m not going to bother reiterating my points, so I’ll just counter your argument.

    Firstly, Itachi didn’t kill the Uchiha clan on his own. It has already been confirmed that he was helped by Madara and even Sasuke mentions that he had help. He could not wipe it out by himself.

    Secondly, Naruto wasn’t in sage mode when Pa toad and Hinata got downed, so that is invalid. At the time, he was in normal Naruto form.

    Also, at no point has it ever been mentioned or suggested that Itachi is stronger than Pein. In fact, Pein is hailed for containing the most powerful doujutsu out of the three great doujutsus, so he is hinted at being stronger.

    To add to that, Itachi may have stopped all of Sasuke’s attacks, but at what price. He ended up being killed by his own jutsu, or the strain they incurred in any case. That shows that his over reliance on the Mangyeko sharingan was met with the ultimate price.

    Remember that Naruto is fighting Pein, the person who defeated the entire opposition force of their civil war single handedly, including the man who managed to defeat all three sannin at the same time, and he is winning agaisnt Pein as well.

    I’m done now.

  508. BUBBLE

    1: No way hes still standing
    2: after being swamped by my army of guests

  509. itachi s toast … genshit didnt work on eighto and wont anymore on naruto … amaterasu should be easy to avoid ,,, and susano can only kick 1 clone the time.
    on the opposite narutard s faster, stronger and hast way more stamina + hes a 1hitkiller

  510. BUBBLE

    1] ….? what?
    2] ?
    3] GAH! I missed em! I fucking missed em! I cant belive i didnt get to seeing hinatas chest!

  511. BUBBLE

    1] Hes here,
    2] So peace ha…
    3] BUAHAHAHAHAAH YOur kidding me?! Your pain?! what the fuck are you sitting in?! A toaster oven?! HAHAHHAA wheh oh man that was good, ok wheres the real pain now serisously

  512. ok i guess i kind of want to bring up a few things after reading this post. Im a Naruto fan all the way, and personally i think he would win out against Itachi in the end. Lets get realistic though, naruto would get his ass handed to him in alot of instances. A normal shringan can follow naruto when hes in fox mode, were not sure to how many tails cause we havent seen naruto fight either sauske or Itachi since he just figured out the 1 tails. But Orochimaru was able to dodge the 3 and pain was doing ok up untill the 7 or 8, so im guessing with the mangekyou, sage or fox mode, itachi would be able to follow the Narutos movement, but just because you can follow something with your eye doesent mean your body can react in time. Than theres also sage mode mixed with kyubi chakra wich we have yet to identify its powers wich could drastically change the outcome. Over all id say naurto wins with power. But lets face it, yes naruto has become more cunning since learning the special clone intellegence swap, and will inevitably making him smarter in the long run, but i think at this point in time itachi has him beat in the intelligence department. If it was on cunning alone itachi would win out, but intelligence mind you doesent fully make up for in stamina and power. Itachi might be a genius, and yes he deffiently has power to spare, but its no where near the level that Naruto has, so when your power and stamina fails, than alot of that intelligence is useless.

    If your talkinga bout jutsu than id have to say itachi would win that area. Hes been around longer, and yes even though id ont like the mangekuou verry much its got some pretty pimp abilities.

    1) Rasen Shuryken vs. Ameterasu- Rasen shryken is like a poison bomb, when it goes off, all the charkra is realeased focusing on a central point in the center of the jutsu, and with narutos chakra which we have found is strong enough to mix with the ninetails chakra and not kill him is a formidable jutus, and whoever said that the rasen shuriken can be out done by a damn fire ball…really? Cause of its wind factor? Honestly, stop and realize that yes, that needs to be a factor, but were tlaking about a jutsu that has both spacial and natural construction that not even the 4th hokage could complete. ..Im pretty sure a fucking fireball istn going to be a big deal. Now ameterasu on the other hand i can see being a problem. Its like a black whole of flames that wont stop till the mangekuyou user turns it off. DAMn…i hate to say it but i think Ameterasu would win out there. But it depends on the area scope were tlaking about. If Naruto can make a Rasen Shuriken large enough to take out the whole area that is engulfed in Ameterasu than that might work, nut compared to the ones weve seen so far, and the whole mountain side that was coverd in black flames, id s say ameterasu wins.

  513. At this point however i think Itachis genjuts is pretty well stumped. We know now that by switching narutos chakra with the foxes he can break genjuts thanks to eighto shoiwng us how, and im pretty sure narutp has grown intelligence wize enough to figure this out, and eight showed sauske (who got his ass handed to him in an instant have a mangekyou genjutsu was used on him haha) that as long as naruto understands how to break out of a jutsu he could do it long before itachi even got to him. And would be even easier now with sage chakra, which you have to be standing still for anyways, even a little bit of sage chakra could reall fuck up a genjutus by itachi because its complete unfamiliar to him. Than when you facotr in narutos speed in either fox, sage, or the mix, he could break a genjutu and move a way or even counter itachis blow if he was to attack right after naruto was struck with a mengekyou level genjutsu.

    And over all we must not forget Narutos never give up attitude which has won him over in alot of up hill battles. Naruto vs Kabuto anyone? You alwasy have to factor that in. So over all id say naruto would get his ass handed to him off the bat, bt after he figured out itachis movements he would slowly gain teh upper hand and inevitably win over Itachi, because he also knows that by beating itachi he might be able to get sauske back, which is what this whole damn thing is about anyway.

  514. @Tenrai Senshi
    Well you got me on most of what i originally said. But the fact that what happend to pa toad and hinata happened while he wasn’t in sage mode is an even bigger disadvantage for naruto. One of the only reasons Naruto was able to even summon on of his bunshins was that he either got help from someone, or had just enough time during one of peines little lapses when he cant use his power. If itachi uses ninjutsu he doesnt have lapses like that.
    And Madara told Sasuke that Itachi died because of a disease not mangekyou. And I was wrong to say it that it was they hinted Itach was stronger than pein. i guess wwhat I shoulda said is I’m assuming he is because in the manga he was taking orders from Madara not giving them, so I’m thinking he would have to be weaker, and like i said Itachi siad himself that he was stronger than Madara. As far as the pein part all they said was that rinnegan was the strongest doujutsu not that Pein was the strongest person. If you assume that having the strongest doujutsu makes him so much stronger than itachi then you’d have to assume the same about Itachi vs Naruto. having a Strong doujutsu would make him the better fighter.

  515. @turpend

    We have touched up on these point before, so I don’t know if it is a good idea to revisit them, but I am compelled to do my duty.

    Alright, your argument about Sharingan being able to track Naruto in Kyuubi form, that is correct up to the point where he gets the foxes cloak. The cloak acts separately to Naruto’s body, making it impossible to predict, as shown in the battle against Sasuke at the valley of the end.

    Also, as for the Rasenshuriken against Amatarasu, you are factoring in a major circumstanital situation. Naruto knows about the weaknesses of each jutsu, so is he really going to use a rasenshuriken against it?

    You forget about Naruto’s Giant Oodama rasengan. That isn’t wind natured, but it is the size of a boulder. Anything hit by that is instant vapor dust.

    I am a Naruto fan as well, but I am also a reasonable person. I know Itachi would have beaten Naruto a couple of chapters ago, but as he is now, Naruto has the edge. He has surpassed the fourth and Jiraiya and he is fighting someone strong enough to destroy Konoha in a single attack. I don’t know about you, but I would think that Shinra Tenshi is more powerful than Amatarasu, so if Naruto can overcome that, he can overcome the black flames of death as well.

    I suggest you go back and re-read some of the earlier posts, because these points have already been covered. This debate is getting tiring now, because people are always repeating the same “Amatarasu” debate all the time.

  516. @skyhigh303

    I don’t recall ever saying that sage mode was perfect. It is a weapon like any other and it has weaknesses as well. i was simply pointing out the flaws in your argument. And yes, Itachi does have lapses after using his jutsu, unless you think blindness and exhaustion are nothing to be concerned about. Bleeding eyes don’t help either…

    Also, Itachi said that Madara was a shell of his former self he never mentioned that he was stronger as far as I recall. If Itachi was stronger, then why did he need Madara’s help to to defeat the Uchiha clan. Also, we don’t know how Madara’s strength compares to everyone else yet, so saying that Itachi is stronger than him doesn’t mean he is stronger than Pein or Naruto.

    The strongest don’t always lead. You just need to be able to bend people to your will. Take Gato for example. He probably couldn’t beat any of his hirelings in anything, but he was the one giving all the orders. Power over others doesn’t only come from strength, after all, and sometimes a cunning mind can bend anyone to its will.

    Also having a strong doujutsu does NOT make you a better fighter, it makes you weaker if not anything else. You rely to much on a single power, but as soon as that power is taken away, you have nothing left.

    Take Sasuke for example. He was stronger than Naruto in just about every way at the series start, but over time Naruto surpassed him. Why, because he thought he was the best because of his Uchiha status and his sharingan and he relied on that power for strength.

    Naruto worked hard and fought for every inch of strength he gained and eventually he surpassed Sasuke. Then Sasuke turned to more free power from Orochimaru, instead of earning it himself.

    Naruto is defeating the strongest doujtus, because he is stronger as a person. He defeated the last of Pein’s body without the Sage mode as well, so don’t underestimate him when he isn’t in it.

    Same with Itachi, he relied on his mangyeko sharingan and it brought his life up short. he may have been dying, but he was still fine before his battle with Sasuke. You can’t tell me that his symptoms suddenly decided to just kill him, it was his use of jutsu that weakened him and accelerated his death.

    You are going to have to do better to win this debate. Your points are good, but once again you are relying too much on Itachi’s mangyeko sharingan and claiming it to be all powerful. It is something I consider a false strength, because it takes away from its user by giving them a cheap alternative to real strength.

  517. Honestly i think the fights gonna come down to whos got the better natural talent cause both of their big power ups have huge flaws. if itachi uses any of his mangekyou techs hell end up waisting all his energy.
    naruto in sage mode probably puts him somewhat over itach in tai and nin but fuuton rasenshuriken can probably be avoided easily by the sharingan and once he drains all his sage energy, hes at risk and itachi could whale on him befroe he got a chance to summon a bunshin.
    if they fight whoever wins is gonna do it by slim to none. and Honestly I dont know who would win now thous cause naruto in sage mode aint no punk

  518. @skyhigh303

    I’m not going to debate over this anymore, because it is tiring now. Until someone comes up with something really convincing, I won’t even bother.

    It has been a good debate though and it is good to see that at least some people are trying to come up with some interesting arguments! ^ ^

    It is just getting too repetitive now.

    Good night! X_X

  519. @Tenrai Senshi
    I said if he uses Ninjutsu mangekyou is his doujutsu and he still can use just his regular shairngan. You are right about people with doujutsu relying on it too much thou, but naruto nevr reall earned his power first of they put the kyuubi in him at birth. thats like a nuclear reactor in your stomache so now he has uber chakra levels. Naruto put in some hard work to get where he is but com on now he just gets freebies handed to him. i mean honestly he can train one tech using 1000 clones and learn what tales years in dayss. WTF thats like the hyperbolic time chamber in dbz. he just gets hand outs.
    And come on man why you gott bring Sasuke in this so far we dont know how weak or strong hes gonna end up so don’t burst my bubble man I’m still hoping he doesnt turn all weaksauce

  520. Marksman, dude! I’m simply following the laws of the Norris! Drunken bravado FTW! ask Ibi, she’ll tell you ;P

    No offence intended buddy! I’m just playin wit ya!/

  521. @skyhigh303

    Man, you really do want to keep me from my sleep, don’t you? I was jsut about to go to bed when I see another attempt at a continued debate.

    Alright, one last time. There is a reason I haven’t brought the Kyuubi into the debate and that is because I don’t believe that that is Naruto’s power. I have mentioned that before and I will say it again.

    At the same time, Kakashi said that NAruto’s chakra levels were tqice as high as his, if not more, and that was without the Kyuubi factoring in.

    Also, during his elemental training, his kyuubi chakra was being suppressed by Yamato the whole time. All those clones, all that hard work, it was all him. He still felt the exhaustion of all the clones just as much as he gained their experience, so he was still doing all the hard work.

    The Kyuubi is a curse not a gift, so yeah, he got a curse on a silver platter. That’s a great argument. His whole life was ruined because of it and he was always brought down by everyone around him and made to feel like a worthless failure, so if anything, he has shown his strength by overcoming that hurdle.

    Naruto has never gotten any freebies, as you claim. He has had to work against harder obstacles than anyone else has had to in order to become stronger. The Kyuubi is a power that will destroy him, not help him and that is why I have been using Naruto’s own strength in all of my arguments. If I brought the Kyuubi into it, I could have a field day, but Naruto is not the Kyuubi.

  522. I am going to bed now, so if anyone responds to my post, I will only get back to you tomorrow… if I feel like it.

    Good night… again… X_X

  523. Bubble:

    1) You are now in the presence of a god and his angel
    2) Leaf ninja killed my parents, and my stray dog, do you now feel the pain that will destroy, and yet, somehow save the world?!
    3) Dammit, what is with these black cloaked guys? They just keep popping up. Did someone open an a$$h*le factory around here?!

  524. @super: Yeah man, i’m tired of typeing the same stuff over and over.

    1) Agreed
    2) agreed
    3) Susano’o: True, they are both final attacks, but if naruto does go 6tails then, as i have said before, the battle will most likely end in a draw because both will be killed or the fox will be caught in the Tetsuka swords sealing genjutsu

    4)I disagree – i don’t think he would have used Amaterasu on sasuke if he couldn’t stop it, the risk would have been to great to his plan of dying by sasuke’s hands (i know he was just trying to draw oro out, but still @the rsik of his brother cathching on fire, if he couldn’t have stopped it would have been stupid 4 him to use ut against him.

    5) Agreed

    6)True, but as i have said before, he hasn’t used Amaterasu on the off chance that it would miss, he either uses it to save his ass or to attack an injure the opponent. I can’t see him wasteing a jutsu like that on naruto unless he was sure it would accomplish what he wants

    7) once again i have to disagree: as Sasuke said he:
    “blindness, so that’s the price you pay for control over the nine tailed fox”
    It is supportng that any Mangekyou Sharingan could control the kyuubi, and is written in the clans secret room about the screts of the sharingan. Why would have konoha have suspected the uchihas behind the kyuubi attack unless there was a possiblitlity that they could control it to some degree?

  525. Bubble:

    1) Hello! Welcome to Vag-a-door!
    2) We are having a clearance sale on the ‘meat-curtain‘ model, or is there another model I could show you?!
    3) eesh! What’s this stuff all over my legs? Have you been making bread in here or sump’n?

  526. BUBBLE:

    Konan: For the last time! This manga has no connotations to religion whatsoever! Right God?…I mean Nagato?

    Nagato: Well said my angel. Now Naruto…you shall be the sacrifice for the world to obtain salvation.

    Naruto: Father, forgive them for they know not what they do…

  527. Itachi vs Naruto

    This is my bid to bring this damn debate to a close…

    First off, just so we’re clear, this fight is set in a chuunin style battle arena, high walls all around, dirt ground, two trees in the corner (so naruto can rest in the shade after he pwns Itachi XD lol). Both contestants know about the fight beforehand, so no surprise entries and stealth kills (just like last week) thus Naruto enters the battle in SageKyuubi (SK) mode.

    Ok! Let’s-a go!

    We’ll start with notable abilities:

    Itachi –

    Sharingan – ability to predict opponents moves based on muscle tension, body positioning; increased perception (ie. Can see movement and flow of chakra, identify chakra types and understand the nature of nin-tai-genjutsus and replicate them).

    Mangekyou Sharingan – Allows Itachi to use ultimate jutsus Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi and Susano’o.

    Excellent movement/seal speed

    Fire/Water-Based Jutsu’s

    Mastery of Nin-Tai-Genjutsu

    Excellent chakra pool (slightly better than Sasuke’s)


    Naruto –

    Senjutsu and Hermit Mode – Increases strength and power of users Nin-Tai-Genjutsu; allows super strength and speed; extreme sensitivity to the chakra all around him.

    Frog Kata’s – Taijutsu style that incorporates nature chakra into each movement, extending the power and reach of his attacks

    SK mode – According to Narutopedia, combines the characteristics of both the jinchuuriki and sage mode (possible interpretations include the ability to extend SK chakra to attack as fox cloak naruto can do; also the ability to access the Kyuubi’s chakra to sustain SK mode until Kyuubi is depleted, supported by fact that Naruto can throw two Rasenshurikens in Sage Mode and still have enough chakra left for Rasengan); resistance to Genjutsu (as he displayed with Nagato in this weeks chapter, due to control of Bijuu); perceived extreme speed granted by Kyuubi’s chakra.

    Fuuton: Rasenshuriken – Naruto’s most powerful ninjutsu that does not rely on Kyuubi. Damages opponent as molecular level, resulting in extreme physical trauma and the inability to use chakra. Can be combined with Senjutsu to grant the ability to throw FRS.

    Rasengan in it’s various forms

    Mass/Shadow Clones


    Unlimited chakra pool

    Now, a straight up comparison:

    Taijutsu – goes to Naruto. Hands down. Frog Kata’s cannot be countered by standard taijutsu, as chakra cannot be physically blocked. It can only be dodged. Fairly hard to do if the opponent cannot see it (super commented on it earlier). Made even harder if SK chakra can be extended.

    Ninjutsu – This is a toughie…in this, they are fairly even. Itachi’s library of jutsu focus on diversity, having the right jutsu for the right situation. Also his seal speed is important for activating ninjutsu before his opponent has a chance to counter. Wheras Naruto has customized his jutsu library to give Rasengan the best possible chance of connecting (ie. Shadow clones to take hits, confuse opponents, set up opponent for mega pwnage…ask Deva Path). However, it must be noted that Itachi CANNOT COUNTER FRS as it is an incredibly high level jutsu…he can block with Susano’o, he can dodge (IF Naruto’s set up fails), but he cannot counter it…not even with Amaterasu (I’ll get to that later)…

    Genjutsu – Naturally Itachi is the master in this category…but as we saw when Nagato attempted to control Naruto via CRI, SK mode (or more specifically, Naruto’s control over Kyuubi) negates powerful genjutsu. In fact – quoting Narutopedia’s Genjutsu page as reference – that SK mode could conceivably counter Tsukuyomi. To cancel Genjutsu, a victim must overpower the casters chakra with a stronger power (I interpret “power” to mean chakra) of their own. I have seen no evidence to say that Tsukuyomi could not be overpowered (as Itachi’s chakra is still Itachi’s chakra, no matter how potent the Genjutsu) and no chakra is stronger than the Kyuubi’s.

    Experience vs Unpredictability – No one (bar Madara) was more experienced than Kakuzu, then Naruto stuck a decoy Bunshin with FRS while the real Naruto dropped from the sky in true stealth-kill-Ninja-style. As Elfarren stated earlier, unpredictability (kage bunshin no jutsu!) will overcome experience in this particular match up.

    Speed – Itachi is exceptionally fast (the sharingan cannot keep up) but I hypothesize that Naruto, under the influence of Sage Chakra and the Kyuubi (both of which increase speed to inhuman levels) is faster. And if Itachi is faster than the sharingan can handle, Naruto is invisible! SK mode FTW!

    Now, my anti-Amaterasu argument:

    Isn’t Amaterasu the greatest! It’s so powerful, as soon as itachi breaks it out, naruto will be cooked worse than a breast piece at KFC! It has NO flaws, and can burn everything in sight! Right?

    WRONG! Amaterasu is a CLOSE RANGE ninjutsu with a range of 0-5m (Narutopedia > Kekkei Genkai > Amaterasu).

    Surely not, you say!

    You ASSUME, more like it.

    Has anyone ever seen Amaterasu ignite from more than 5 steps away from the user? No, actually. Check the Sasuke vs Killer Bee/Hachibi fight, in the frames directly before you see Hachibi burn. Massive close up of the Tailed Beasts face, preceded by close ups of Sasuke’s MS. Suggests that Hachibi had to be dangerously close to Sasuke before he could activate Amaterasu. More proof? How far away was Tobidara when Sasuke flamed him? How close is Sasuke’s fireball when Itachi burns it with Amaterasu? Look and see for yourself…

    Two, Amaterasu causes a stationery flame to erupt in the very spot the MS focuses on (within range, of course). I find the easiest way to explain the scenario of the FRS passing through Amaterasu either unharmed or alight is to compare it to lighting a match, holding it near your face and blowing gently on the flame. What happens to the stationery flame if you blow on it? It bends in the direction you blow. Thus Amaterasu wouldn’t stop FRS (it can’t – it has no force behind it), it would light it, and make it more destructive than ever!

    Tsukuyomi has been dealt with…

    Susano’o? Ahhh, this technique cannot be countered by any jutsu Naruto has (not including 8-tails Menacing ball) as Yata is impenetrable, and Totsuka being the ultimate offensive weapon.

    But would Itachi use it right off the bat?I highly doubt it. Its too draining. Again, Zetsu says that Susano’o carries a lot of risk. Extreme physical exhaustion, chakra depletion and eye damage result. I compare Totsuka as similiar to the Lotus: high risk, high return. Totsuka is only so long…and I can’t see Itachi holding it for long…if he missed, or cannot identify Naruto from his clones, then what? Susano’o rocks, for sure, but you aren’t granted permanent invincibility. If he burns his chakra on it, itachi’s gonna get ass-raped by a bajillion needles of wind chakra…not the nicest way to go.

    My verdict: Naruto wins. Way too many advantages over Itachi.

    OK, I have officially ended my part in this debate…pick it apart, if you want…I don’t care. Team Naruto, feel free to use what ever you find useful in this novel sized post.

    I hope you guys read my post on how SK owns genjutsu that I posted earlier this morning…it is now 20mins to Midnight in Australia and I must sleep.

    Tofa soifua, goodbye and take care…DA.

  528. whoa…that IS long…and that’s the condensced version…

  529. @Darkavatar: Well said….Very well said! Don’t worry I will defend and use your argument while you rest. I don’t know how anybody could pick something apart that is backed by so may sources. It’s not like you pulled shit out of your ass and put up false info. Arigato, you were a key member in this debate! 😀

  530. @darkAvatar: You make some good points, i liked the way you started off showing their abilities, but you seem to have forgotten a few things along the was, unfortunatley i’ve got work in 20 mins, not nearly enough time to gather references and what not. I know i said i wouldn’t debate you anymore (hopefully this wont follow on to another one) but i will make an exception this time and counter some of your points.

  531. **along the way

  532. @super – thanks bro.

    @mudshovel – Nooooo! Leave it ALONE!!! lol

  533. Hey guys! Check it out!

    We’ve managed to swing the public opinion closer to Naruto winning this debate!

    From just over 20% to 44% now. There is now a difference of 8% seperating Naruto and Itachi…sweet…we got this! LOL 🙂

  534. BUBBLE

    [1] What’s happening?!

    [2] What did he do?!

    [3] It’s all over, Pain. I now have more cum than Poseidon’s seven seas! If I don’t have the balls to kill you, then I’ll rape your emaciated ass; cause I just mixed Kyuubi-sage mode with Viagra! Prepare yourself Pain, this battle just got hornier!!!

  535. AAAND done, nice Darkavatar. I didnt have all the facts so my aplolgies on the ameterasu thing, but either way i agree 100 percent that naruto would win

  536. Oops, I mean 12% difference! Sorry!

  537. I’m probably going to regret this because I already put in my two cents a long time ago, but I think the one factor people are totally overlooking in this debate is PSYCHOLOGY!

    That’s right, you heard me … psychology will tip this battle in Itachi’s favor when all their other abilities, strengths and weaknesses are accounted for and come out as a draw. I said it before when the debate first started and I’ll say it again – all Itachi has to do to win this battle is push Naruto into unleashing his anger, which is his Achilles heel, and once he goes Kyuubi, Itachi can take control of him with his sharingan. And because I can already hear everyone arguing that we don’t know if he can do that, Itachi is the person who told Sasuke where to find the scroll explaining that technique, so it kinda goes without saying that he knows how to do it as well. Here are the links for everyone who wants proof, though I suggest reading the pages in between since I cut straight to the point.


    I’d like to add, too, that since I’m back at work during the weekdays, I won’t be around 24/7 to counter anyone’s arguments against mine. I just wanna be sure no one thinks that means I’m agreeing with you or afraid to back up my opinions …

  538. @ DarkAvatar: Nice comparison. I will agree, Naruto has the advantage. So far in the Naruto universe (canonically speaking) the only battle Naruto appears to have lost was to Sasuke at Valley of the End (unless i missed another, by all means inform me)
    –o and to orochimaru during the chunin exams

    @ orochimaruhebi: your bubble with nagato saying “never!” had me laughing like crazy, it definitely fits his current mood

  539. No worries Turpend! Thanks for the support!

  540. Thanks Yatar!

    @elfarren – you say “once he goes kyuubi” like it’s a done deal. Don’t have so little faith in our man! He has worked his ass off to keep it under control. And I don’t know how to explain this anymore than I have…the kyuubi is under Naruto’s control now…we saw that this week!!!

  541. @ DarkAvatar – Sorry, but I can’t agree with you that Naruto has the Kyuubi under control. We just watched him get so PO’d at seeing Hinata “die” that he went into full 9-Tails mode, forcing Minato to use his ace in the hole to fix the seal. How does that show control? The sage/Kyuubi eyes haven’t proven anything until Kishi explains what they signify, so I’m not going to take conjecture as fact. Naruto might be more careful from now on, but Itachi has proven on more than one occasion that he can push Naruto to extremes – that is fact – which is why I said above that he would use psychology to make Naruto go 9-Tails and control him with his sharingan. There are any number of ways for him to achieve this, from straight sh!t talking to genjutsu, so I believe it’s more than possible … it’s a certainty. Itachi FTW! ^_^

  542. @Elfarren: The sharingan suppressing the Nine Tailed Kyubi power is a genjutsu. When Sasuke went into Naruto’s mind he didn’t do it physically of course because that would be impossible. He was in Naruot’s mind with genjutsu. Naruto didn’t even try to fight it off or stop Sasuke because he didn’t know what was happening ttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/308/16/. Naruto now knows how to fight off genjutsu and how to avoid getting in it the first place. Not only that but because this has happened to him he’ll definitely be more prepared for it. Itahci will have a difficult time succeeding in what Sasuke did over 100 chapters ago to the past Naruto.

  543. Supertrek: omg, rofl. Genjutsu is an illusion, an hallucination which the body believes is real. If this were just genjutsu, then Naruto’s sudden rage/emotion on seeing Sasuke would have allowed that power out–as was happening before Sasuke ‘arrived’. This was not illusion, it was Sasuke controlling and able to SEE the kyuubi inside Naruto.

    In fact he comments on it later, about the thing inside Naruto. Illusions don’t work both ways. PLus, for this to be hallucination created by Sasuke, he’d have to know about the Kyuubi and have created that image as well. The encounter you sited allowed Sasuke to learn about it.

    Sasuke may have gotten there by genjutsu, and the genjutsu power may be what allows certain sharingan users to control the bijuu. BUT that encounter was not a dream. Not every Uchiha has the Sharingan and not every Sharingan user has command of genjutsu. That’s probably a skill set common in the main branch, handed down from Madara to Itachi/Sasuke.

  544. @ Supertrek: Sorry, still don’t agree with you. We’ve never been shown proof that Naruto is any better at preventing/getting out of genjutsu than he was before, there’s only speculation that he knows how based on another theory (sage chakra disrupting the genjutsu) that also isn’t proven. Plus, you have to take into account that Itachi’s genjutsu is so subtle, it’s very likely Naruto won’t know he’s in one anyway. If you want an example, during their last encounter (when Itachi shoved the crow down his throat) Naruto was already in the genjutsu when he saw Itachi appear, and this is after he knows how adept Itachi is with genjutsu. By all accounts, he should have known better. This either proves my point about his subtlety or it proves that Itachi can place someone under genjutsu without that person looking into his eyes or at his hands; either way, Naruto is susceptible.

    And about Sasuke getting inside Naruto’s head with a genjutsu, where’s your proof of that? He says, “Now I am able to see …” the Fox, which doesn’t tell us anything except that he’s using his sharingan. Genjutsu controls another person’s senses, which is different than appearing inside someone’s mind and interrupting a conversation they were in the middle of. More telling than that, though, is the fact that Naruto isn’t even looking at Sasuke when the conversation starts – he’s on the ground huffing and puffing while he tries to gather his senses. Going by the eye contact argument so many Naruto supporters are spouting, simple logic dictates that with what we know that is fact, sharingan controlling the Kyuubi wouldn’t work like a genjutsu.

  545. @ibi – omg rofl. Your lack of understanding of the nature of genjutsu surprises me, considering the character you back. GENJUTSU -DESPITE ITS NAME – IS NOT SOLELY ILLUSORY!!!

    Before anyone attacks the SK mode cannot counter genjutsu, please READ narutopedias entry on genjutsu.

    Genjutsu causes a chakra imbalance in an opponent, causing a disruption in their senses via an opponents chakra controlling the flow of it through a victim.

    Thus CRI is a genjutsu tech as Nagato attempts to overpower Naruto with his chakra to control his movements.

    Kyuubi negated this! Read chapter 413 page 15! Killer bee says “Illusions won’t work on a host who can control his beast”!

    ONCE MORE, I will assert that Naruto has full control of his Kyuubi. Elfarren, I hope you heard that.

    That prevents sasuke entering naruto’s head via genjutsu! No control of kyuubi.

  546. @elfarren – that scene is a visual representation of Sasuke’s CHAKRA (via Sharingan) suppressing Kyuubi. Thus it IS genjutsu.

  547. @Ibiki: If what Sasuke did inside of Naruto’s head wasn’t helped by genjutsu of some sort then what was it? The only thing I can think of that would allow someone to get inside someones head and SEE what’s in there is through genjutsu. After all genjutsu is the manipulation of an opponents chakra in his/her mind. This is why I said that Sasuke used genjutsu to get inside Naruto’s head and allowing him to suppress the Kyubi’s chakra. Also, since this has already happened to Naruto before over 100 chapters ago he’d definitely be more prepared for it and give Itachi a harder time of accomplishing doing the same thing.

    @Elfarren: No, we don’t have guaranteed proof saying that Sage Chakra would help break genjutsu but we do have good reason to believe it will. A lot of this debate is based off of speculation since none of us know Naruto’s or Itachi’s 100% full potential so is it wrong of me to assume? Even though to to assume makes an “ass” out of “u” and “me”. As you’ll keep assuming that as soon as the battle starts Itachi will easily capture Naruto in genjutsu based off his past battles. You’ll don’t take into account his growth since then and continue to neglect that this supposed to be the current Naruto not the past. We all know Naruto learns as he goes and he now knows both ways that Itachi can get Naruto in genjutsu (hands/eyes). No matter how “subtle” Itachi may be Naruto will be wary and watching out for him. And about Naruto looking into Sasuke’s eyes. This is right before Sasuke goes into Naruto’s head to confront the Kyubi ttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/308/10/. If you notice Sasuke looks over towards Naruto and the last thing Naruto does is lift his head up with one eye open allowing for eye contact between Naruto and Sasuke. Perfect chance to work some genjutsu.

  548. No control of Kyuubi (in second to lastpost) = No SUPPRESSION of kyuubi. SORRY!!!

  549. Let’s do this, Super. One last argument stands in the way… TAG TEAM!!!

  550. Super: i already used YOUR cite from teh sourcebook to explain WHY sage mode won’t break genjutsu. Step 1 is to stop chakra flow. Jeez. Listen to someone else for a change…just like your response to my genjutsu response…you argue against stuff I admitted.

  551. Ok, just tone it down a little DarkAvatar it’s getting late over here and everything’s louder in the dark. 😉

  552. *whispers* let’s get them…let’s get them… lol

  553. Sure, ibiki. Jump straight over my argument.

  554. @ Supertrek: In regards to your argument with Ibiki, your own defense doesn’t make sense. I don’t wanna beat a dead horse, so I’ll only say it one last time – when Sasuke appeared in Naruto’s mind, he interrupted Naruto’s conversation with the fox, and like Ibiki pointed out, Sasuke didn’t even know about the fox at that time so it can’t be genjutsu (at the very least, in the sense that he’s manipulating Naruto’s chakra). As for your argument against me, Naruto isn’t looking at Sasuke (who is standing directly in front of him) in that frame, he’s looking up and to the left. Using psychology, that shows that Naruto is remembering/recalling something, which makes sense as Kishi then cuts and shows us he’s talking to the fox in his mind.

    About sage mode breaking genjutsu, I’m not trying to make an @$$ out of anyone, I’m only pointing out that while I have proof of Naruto’s inability to defend against genjutsu as an Itachi supporter, you only have speculation that he can as a Naruto supporter … I’ve already gone over why I believe Itachi doesn’t need Naruto to see his eyes or hands to get caught in a genjutsu, so I’m not going to repeat myself again.

    @ DarkAvatar: I’ve already said why I believe Naruto isn’t in control of his bijuu yet, which was proven just a few chapters ago. Sorry, still not convinced until you show me an example of Naruto making himself revert back from his Kyuubi’s multiple tailed form.

  555. @Elfarren – did you ever see that episode in Shippuuden where that kid with the Kyuubi chakra in his arms (not Naruto, a disciple of the Fire Monastery monks) goes four tails, and Naruto – his actual kyuubi reacting – goes four tails as well?

    Naruto resisted the kyuubi’s influence and reverts back to normal. So we can see that even before SK mode, he had some control over Kyuubi.

    Your argument is moot anyway. I have already proven that he has control over kyuubi via my CRI argument (which no one wants to address funnily enough). Naruto wouldn’t get to that stage anymore.

  556. SORA!!! That’s his name! Fire temple arc!

  557. @ avatar – anime filler much???

  558. @Ibiki: I wasn’t arguing against you about Sasuke using genjutsu. If you read it again you’ll notice I was reinforcing my argument and simply stating the reason why I thought it was genjutsu. That is all.

    And I have read your arguments about why you think Sage Chakra would not help in fighting off genjutsu. Naruto stops his chakra…ok fine that’s not so hard for him at this level. After all he has learned how to be completely still and gather the difficult Sage Chakra and he has basically mastered chakra manipulation with the completion of the FRS. After he stops his chakra flow he goes back into Sage Mode by being completely still and gathering Natural Energy. Remember that as SOON as he’s still the energy rushes into him ttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/435/003/. The effect of Sage Chakra is immediate when someone of Naruto’s caliber wants to gather it real fast. Thus breaking him out of genjutsu when the Sage Chakra over powers the castor’s chakra. I’m sorry if you fell like I’m skipping over your posts but everything I just addressed here I’ve addressed numerous times in previous posts above.

    @Elfarren: Sasuke didn’t know about the Nine Tailed Demon Fox at the time of this incident? 0_0 Really? Sasuke knew three years ago that Naruto had that thing in him and in fact that’s why he got jealous of Naruto because Itachi was after Naruto and not him because of the Bijuu. If that’s not enough proof the Kyubi came out during their fight at The Valley of End. Hell, the Kyubi power came out during Neji’s fight at the Chunin exam. So yes, Sasuke did know that he had the Kyubi in him he was just surprised at it’s appearance and ferocity. And if you look at the panels again we have a POV from Naruto on the ground looking up at Sasuke as Sasuke looks down at him with the sword still buried in Yamato. This is eye contact which is again the perfect situation for genjutsu.

    And I think we’re both going in circles here and beating the same dead horse. No matter how many times you say Naruto couldn’t break genjutsu in PAST battles you can’t say it now with 100% guarantee. This a current battle.

    “Everything else as far as power is current with the manga.” (Jeremiah)

    So, as I do have speculation that Naruto can defend against Itachi’s genjutsu now you also only have speculation that Naruto can’t defend against genjutsu NOW.

    I already discussed the ways Naruto can break genjutsu too many times so I’m not going over it again…besides these dead horses are starting to stink! >_<

  559. @ DarkAvatar: Srsly … you’re gonna quote filler as a source? Sorry, I’m only quoting manga straight from Kishi’s pen. Try again …

  560. Wow, ibiki and elfarren you both pwned while i was away.
    @super just admit dude, ibiki is right on that point about the encounter within naruto with the kyuubi.

    @dark i’ll get to your long @ss post shortly. Also don’t quote fillers as naruto gaining control, since it hasn’t happened in the Manga disreguard it without a second thought.


  562. oh I’m sorry…there are restrictions on the references I can provide?

    You guys make me laugh.

    Flex, don’t bother.

  563. @Mudshovel: Welcome back now why don’t you jump in the debate instead of kissing ass? Lol, jkjk. 😉

  564. Hmmmm…you can’t argue with people that won’t listen.

  565. fine. Forget my filler ref.

    Address my CRI/Kyuubi argument then.

  566. @ Supertrek: Sorry if I didn’t write out what I meant clearly enough earlier when I defended Ibiki’s argument, but I meant he didn’t know what the fox looked like (the actual fox, not Naruto as Kyuubi) which was the point she was trying to make about Sasuke appearing in Naruto’s mind using genjutsu, etc.

  567. @dark: damn this is gonna take awhile .. sit back and enjoy

    Taijutsu: goes to naruto, fair enough, i can’t come up with a solid arguement about itachi blocking this/evadeing (only possibilities) etc so you’ve got that point

    Ninjutsu: goes to Itachi – why? no counter except possibilities of beating Amaterasu and Susano’o. Yes he can block FRS but i’ll get to that later (just like you lol)

    Genjutsu: not even a debate: Itachi. you can only assume that Sage mode will be able to stop genjutsu, since it hasn;t been specified to do so, plus ibiki’s point of, to counter genjutsu, you would leave sage mode, stands (plus my many points before this that i can’t be f’ed restateing).

    Tsukuyomi: No evidence that naruto couldn’t? Are you for real? come on, As i have stated again and again, Itachi has stated (as well as Kakashi) that a sharingan is the only thing that can resist this genjutsu and break it – their is no evidence that naruto can break it.
    Itachi clearly states “that’s correct as long as one has the sharingan some resistance could be made…”
    Plus the whole “he’ll just build up sage chakra in the genjutsu” – are you forgetting that genjutsu is mind torture – and Itachi would be doing his best to Fu*k naruto up. Also 72hrs in Tsukuyomi is – 1sec in reality – how would naruto have the time to build up sage chakra?

    Yes Kakuzu had a lot of battle experience, but his 5 hearts had made him careless and he had to much faith that if he was killed once, he could still win the fight, Itachi having only one life might be just a bit more careful. Also Naruto didn’t solely walk in and defeat kakuzu, Kakashi and shikamaru had all ready taken 2 hearts, Naruto took another 2 and then kakashi finished the job – we are talking about 1 vs 1, no back up no outside help what so ever – bit irrelevant.

    Speed) As super pointed out we can’t make a comparison between the two since naruto’s speed in that mode hasn’t been compared to anything “Since we don’t know nor do we have conclusive evidence I say this is a draw.” (super)

    Lol agreed at the terrible cooked breakfast at KFC.

    Maybe the original cast range is (but that’s debateable seeing as how there is no conclusive evidence to say how long it is) but Itachi can also move Amaterasu
    Show him following sasuke – and I’m pretty sure the ground covered there is longer than 5M.
    Also as shown here:
    Amaterasu can spread – and it burns whatever it touches – not solely on what the user’s eye is focusing on – FRS pass right thorugh it – I don’t think so.

    Susano’o) The Totsuka sword looks pretty long and made quick work of Oro’s hydra tech here:
    Also in this:
    “a spirit sword with no real physical form”
    That implies that its range could be altered and become long depending on the physical shape and size it takes. Plus against Oro’s hydra it quickly destroyed all of the snakes plus Oro, and naruto not knowing about its sealing genjutsu could be a little careless.

    Give that all back – Itach wins

  568. Wow…I just read my posts again…damn, I sounded like a whiny bitch!

    Sorry, people!

    Avatar’s Back!!!

  569. @Avatar: you have to leave for awhile before we start to miss you … a long, long time. lol jkjk.

  570. Faulty work, mudshovel.

    Taijutsu: thank you

    Ninjutsu: youre way off. Bro. Amaterasu is moveable, but it still has no force behind it. Like moving a lit match back and forth.

    Genjutsu: I haven’t brought up sage chakra cancel for ages. I’m now contesting CRI as a genjutsu and kyuubi negated it. Beat that point from me.

    Kakuzu was not careless. That’s just ridiculous and baseless. Other wise he would not have said, “must not get hit by it”, and would not have flown over naruto in an attempt to avoid FRS and kill the decoy from a distance.

    Speed: don’t use my teammates statements against me. Can you seriously tell me that normal Itachi has the ability to be faster than someone under the influence of Kyuubi and Sage chakra – both which we know increase speed to inhuman levels?

    Aamaterasu – OK I give you 7m.

    Tsukuyomi – they aren’t Jinchuuriki. Besides, to me it looks like sasuke is trying to cast Tsukuyomi on Killer Bee in his fight (note inverted colours, stabbing blades, Sasukes MS. This is in the chapter directly before “the bull rampages”) No tsukuyomi.

    Susano’o – no matter what you say, susano’o still drains. And if he can’t find the real Naruro quickly, he’s f*cked.

    Round 2, please.

  571. Godamn it dark and it continues

    [Huge Sigh]

    Ninjutsu: what nothing against Susano’o (figures) also Amaterasu burns whatever it touches – why would the FRS be any different (and dont sight the real life stuff – MANGA).

    Genjutsu: sage chakra)it wasn’t dirrected at you – more so super and anyone else whos genjutsu arguements are based on that. Also about CRI – are you there for saying that when pa frog was trying to fuse with naruto that was genjutsu as well? Genjutsu has been shown as being effective against naruto (and don’t ramble on about more control over the kyuubi – as i said before, who just went 8tails?)

    Kakuzu: Yea he was against kids – and didn’t suspect that someone was hideing to attack him? Not to mention … wait why am i argueing about this – its pointless, helps nobody.

    Speed: Can you provide with a link that shows how fast he is in that mode? no because there are no comparisons. also i was just useing supers point because he generally backs up all his points with references, so if he can’t find one – have fun.

    Tsukuyomi: what are you saying here?

    Susano’o: just as if naruto doesn’t hide, he’s f’ed – all assumptions that were making on what could happen. Yata mirror and Totsuka sword are an ‘invincible’ duo (cited by zetsu) so what could he really do other than hide (he doesn’t know these things – so naruto wouldn’t hide).

  572. @everyone

    Wow, I wake up this morning, thinking that the battle for supremacy is finally coming to an end and then I see this. To be honest, all of you are repeating the same thing over and over and over again.

    I am tired of hearing about Tsukyomi, the kyuubi and genjutsu. I actually don’t like the idea that everyone is bringing the Kyuubi into this in the first place, because that is NOT naruto’s power.

    Naruto is better of without the red furball in his stomach, thata is a fact, and although Minato may have sealed it inside NAruto to prepare him for something, at this point the only thing it has caused him is pain and hardships.

    Now, saying that, we stipulated that this battle was with both of them at full power. If Naruto is at full power, why would he try to call the Kyuubi? That is something that has only been done out of desperation in the past and has never been done willingly lately.

    Also, about this whole genjutsu nonsense, Naruto knows how to recognize a genjutsu, so he won’t let it fool him into going all rage Kyuubi mode. He has shown that ability when he first came back and Kakashi tried to fool him with a dying Sasuke, and again in his battle with Itachi when he tried to tear Naruto’s mind apart.

    To be honest, this whole debate is based on hearsay rather than intelligent observations. If you people can’t think before you post and try to at least come up with something solid, then we are going to end up hearing repeats for the rest of the freaking weak.

    *Takes deep breath*

    Alright, so who has a smart argument to challenge me with, and I mean smart, because I will tear it apart if I find anything I can to bring it crashing to its knees.

  573. @mudshovel

    “Yata mirror and Totsuka sword are an ‘invincible’ duo (cited by zetsu)”

    Yes, and Pein is an invincible god, as cited by Konan, yet he is getting his ass kicked as we speak. Don’t read too much into a character’s opinion, because that is not good evidence to support your argument.

  574. @senshi: don;t have long before i gotta leave again (grr). on the naruto and genjutsu point you made – noticing and breaking a genjutsu are 2 completely different things. Also to compare Kakashi’s genjutsu to Itachi’s genjutsu is ludacrious. (if you want i’ll provide referance later. but i’m starpped 4 time).
    O yeah i agree – i’m sick of restateing points that ppl are obviously either not reading or ignoring.

  575. @senshi again: True, but when your talking about a mirror that will reflect any attack and a ‘sword’ that can eliminate any opponent – he is prob right.

  576. Let’s go Mudshovel!

    Ninjutsu: no one denied that FRS would catch fire. But that kinda makes it more scary don’t you think? Two: FRS may burn…but you are suggesting that FRS will just stop and evaporate? That doesn’t make sense. Naruto FTW!

    Genjutsu: they aren’t even the same sorta thing dude.read my posts again regarding this. Naruto went 8 tails BEFORE seal reset by Minaro and SK mode. I’ve said already that the fusion is sage and chakra is damn near impossible given their opposing natures. What else do you need to see to prove that he’s mastered it? A leash?

    Speed: Absence of Evidence is not Evidence of absence. WE KNOW kyuubi and sage chakra makes people inhumanly fast. Don’t ask for links. Waste of time.

    Experience: thanks…Naruto FTW

    Tsukuyomi: 8 tails resisted Tsukuyomi. What you think I’m saying?

    Susano’o – a double edged sword is not an advantage. It drains. Prove me wrong.

    Round 3 please.

  577. @mudshovel

    Firstly, my argument about the genjutsu was to counter the argument about Itachi using genjutsu to make NAruto upset and cause him to go Kyuubi, which is why I didn’t bother stipulating ways that he could break a genjutsu (Which i have given enough examples of already).

    Secondly, your argument about susanoo is based on very little information and is based more on assumptions than anything else. After all, It hink we’ve seen about 10 different techniques that are concidered the “Ultimate defence” and have been referred to as such by both their owners and other characters, but still they are always defeated in the end. Susanoo is no different.

  578. @dark: i’ll turn this into round 4 when i get back (3 hrs – be on)

    @senshi: true an ultimate defence is an ultimate defence until its broken – just break it then naruto. If you can provide a perfect arguement then senshi, about how naruto would counter/beat Itachis’ three best techs, then i will admit defeat. I want proof and references. till i get back – create that arguement.

  579. good luck mudshovel…you’ll be out at the end of the next round.

    Hi tenrai! OMG I needed backup! Lolzz No one better!

  580. dark avatar naruto is no match against itachi’s speed gimme 1 link that can prove his speed is greater

  581. @Ahsan

    Give us one link that proves that Itachi’s speed is greater, that’s all I have to say.

  582. @mudshovel

    Alright, if you want me to beat your three MS jutsu, then I will do so. Everything can be defeated if you just think about it, and I have thought about it.


    Firstly Tsukyomi. It can only be cast through eye contact and that can be avoided. Unlike Itachi’s regular genjutsu which can be cast by the wave of a finger, this is a MS technique that requires the right eye to activate. It is difficult to counter, but not impossible to avoid.

    Second, Amatarasu. It travels wherever the eye is focused, thus it relies on one’s vision to be effective. If you can disrupt your opponents vision, or escape from his line of sight, you are safe. Wasting one shot of this gives Itachi the immediate disadvantage in a battle, so Naruto only has to avoid it once to get the upper hand. He can do this by using a shadow clone, going underground, or using smoke bombs to cloud the area and sever eye contact, to name a few examples.

    Lastly, but not the least, Susanoo. As I have mentioned before, we don’t know enough about its properties to really evaluate it, so presuming it is all powerful is just not on. We know that it acts as a shield for Itachi and that its sword can seal someone in an eternal genjutsu, but what else do we know? Nothing really. All I can say right now is that it takes a lot of energy. If Itachi were to use it agaisnt Naruto, it would probably be to stop a technique like the rasenshuriken if nothing else was an option at the time.

    To be honest, Naruto simply has to avoid its reach to stay clear of the sealing sword and wait it out. Or find a way to break through it. It will have a weakness, just like any other defense, and one of them I’ve seen so far is how much it drains Itachi of his power. If he misuses it, he is at a disadvantage, so I doubt he would use it against Naruto unless it is a last resort, and if that happens, then Naruto is already winning the battle…

    Unfortunately, that is all I can say for Susanoo. I am not going to throw out assumptions that make me look like a fool, until I know more facts. At the same time, it is not a genjutsu as some people have suggested, because genjtusus are illusions, not something physical that can stop an attack. The sword can seal someone into an genjutsu, but that is all that is mentioned.

    There you ahve it, I have found ways to counter your MS techniq

  583. Ahsan…THANK YOU!!! if you hadn’t asked me for a link, I wouldn’t have gone out and found one!

    Please read Narutopedia > Nine-Tailed Demon Fox > Activity inside Naruto.

    “…UNRIVALLED stamina and SPEED”.

    This makes sense…no one ever said Sasuke was faster than Naruto. Just that his sharingan could keep up with his movements!

    Ahsan! You ROCK! You are a lifesaver!

  584. @mudshovel

    At the same time, you could find similar ways to counter Naruto’s techniques, because to be honest, there is no such thing as an unbeatable technique.

    Claiming one to be impervious is just a waste of time and a complete assumption based on nothing more than hearsay.

  585. @DarkAvatar

    I would be careful about relying on community based information to support your arguments. Narutpedia is a collection of information from the Naruto community, put into an archive for easy use, so that means that it is also based on the observations and interpretations of those who have collected that information and is subject to false interpretation as well.

    That has caused enough misinformation and assumptions in this debate already.

    The only way you can be sure about something, is if it is specifically mentioned in the manga, or straight from Kishi’s mouth himself.

    What I can say to support you though, is that Itachi has never shown any remarkable examples of superior speed in the manga, nor is it ever mentioned that he is supremely fast by anyone. The only thing that is mentioned is his ability to react to his opponents.

    So assuming he is faster than Naruto is now is just stupid and can be discredited. If you are going to make assumptions then at least provide an example from the manga or superior argument to support that claim, rather than just saying it is so and expecting everyone to accept it.

  586. Tenrai, thanks for the heads up. And support.

    My point is that theRe is a page that supports the claim that Naruto is faster than Itachi. And that this view is supported by the VAST MAJORITY of the Naruto community.

    Scientists use studies based on the opinions of 1000’s of people to support theories as well. Why can’t I?

    Don’t discount the Wiki’s.

  587. @DarkAvatar

    I don’t discount the information, I just don’t like using it. I prefer to use examples straight from the manga in all my arguments, because then no-one can use that information against me or claim that it is falsified.

    I am trying to help you by keeping you from that. People will use the fact that the information is community based against you, so it is better to stick to info that can’t be dismissed as public opinion.

    I know that Naruto in Kyuubi form is probably faster than most charters, but to say that it is unrivaled is false in itself. After all, a space/time jutsu like Madara’s can beat Naruto to the punch in terms of speed.

    Also, I try not to use the Kyuubi in my arguments, because then the same old story about the sharingan being used to control the Kyuubi comes out to play. Naruto is strong enough to beat Itachi without the Kyuubi, if you ask me, so there is no need for him to even be in this equation. Sage mode also provides him enough of s boost to all of his physical abilities.

  588. Time/space jutsus fold time and space to transport an object from point a to b without that object physically moving, thus teleportation is not speed.

    I’ve found wiki to be an excellent source of info, BECAUSE it is based from the information of the international community. And it’s referenced, so it’s not just hearsay.

    Though, perhaps “unrivalled” is an opinion and not documented fact, I might drop that as undeniable proof.

    Either way, I cite that page as a source that supports the fact that the kyuubi grants Naruto inhuman speed, and by that alone I claim that Itachi – being a mere human – cannot match his speed.

    In regards to your non-Kyuubi arguments, I know he is stronger, YOU know he is stronger. But this debate is about scoring points and converting the masses into believing Naruto will PWN Itachi. I can defend my genjutsu-proof argument and can counter the Kyuubi-Control argument.

    But it’s cool that you can argue without it. Cos I couldn’t XD

    Now let’s end this little debate and focus on ending the REAL one…you got my back, bro?

  589. AHSAN!!! Gimme a link to a page that says Itachi can outrun the Kyuubi! Cos that’s what you’re saying!!!

  590. Awesomeness…Naruto is now at 45%! 10% now stands between Naruto and Itachi! Go team Naruto! All we need is a 6% increase and we will be in the lead!!!
    HAHAHAHAAAAAA!!!!!! I’m pumped!!!

    Mudshovel, you’re MINE!!!

  591. @Senshi: Okay given enough manga time will show that every jutsu has its flaws granted, now onto your points

    Tsukuyomi: Your argument strongly rides on that naruto can avoid this tech by not looking into his eyes and that he wont look at the ‘finger’ that can cast genjutsu. However as I have put in my previous posts, there is nowhere in the manga that suggests that naruto has learned Gai’s way to battle the Sharingan. Gai has been the only character revealed that can battle the Sharingan by concentrating on the opponents feet to predict moves etc, and seeing as how naruto hasn’t been trained by Gai – its very unlikely that he can fight in this manner. Also even should naruto try to fight in this manner, gai commented that there is a method used to do this for it to be successful. For naruto it would be impossible to counter and extremely hard to avoid, as Itachi most definitely would try to end it quickly with this tech.

    Amaterasu: First of all Itachi has only used this tech (that we’ve seen) under 2 circumstances 1. to stop a tech/break out of one (save himself from harm) and 2. if he is close to the opponent for a high chance success rate (obviously to counter the side effects of it). Also Amaterasu can be moved by itachi and can spread by itself aswell (provided links all ready to this, see a few posts above if you wish to view it). Therefore it would be hard to avoid and if the battle site starts to become alight, so much for hiding. Also if you rebut with, Itachi would be killed as well, I have provided links above that show that he could stop Amaterasu the same way that sasuke can.

    Susano’o: Itachi will be 100% in this battle, no illness. Now, Naruto knows absolutely nothing about this jutsu! I can’t stress that point enough (it seems), he wouldn’t know that the sword has an eternal sealing genjutsu and a mirror which, at this stage, seems to be able to reflect all attacks. The totsuka sword has no real physical form, whats not to say that it can change its shape and range? Also the whole drains Itachi power point, yes, but he was almost dead when he used it which would obviously limit the time that it can be used. If he’s 100% in health – the time of this jutsu would extend. Also true he would most likely use it as a last resort, but I find it hard to see how naruto can battle and avoid susano’o attacks if he has no previous knowledge of its abilities.

  592. @Dark Avatar: Lets continue this

    “…continues to burn until their target is completely eradicated…”
    No evidence to support that FRS would break through, plenty of evidence to support that it would be stopped and destroyed.

    Genjutsu: And how does the seal being reset, help him control the beast … it doesn’t. I don’t see how you are coming to the conclusion that just because he added a little bit of kyuubi chakra with sage chakra, he has automatic control over the kyuubi and that now all genjutsu is ineffective. If he battles sauske soon and sasuke tries to use Tsukuyomi on him and in SK mode, it is completely ineffective, I will type the fault I made, but until that happens, it is baseless – it can’t be proven that he has control over it. When Killer Bee was shown talking to his bijuu, the bijuu deferred to him, not to mention that when he completely change into the 8tails, he still had complete control over it. The Kyuubi has show nothing but contempt at being sealed in his cage, and I doubt he will ever defer to naruto, Naruto can only control (last seen at 3 tails) but of course his seal wasn’t healed by the 4th for a second time, so now of course he has complete control.

    Speed: maybe, maybe standard speed in that mode has Itachi trumped, but you are forgetting the sharingan can still track him, and since he has no demon cloak, his movements will still be perceivable.

    Susano’o: Weak dude, weak. The same can be said of the kyuubi and FRS. Susano’o in the short term will be a huge advantage seeing as how it can decide the battle very quickly (eg block FRS, stab naruto while he is recovering from the high chakra used). When used at the right time it will be highly effective. Naruto has no jutsu (that we know of at this stage) that could defeat this tech, he has no knowledge of this tech. what else do I need to say. When he used it – he was almost dead (and chakra exhausted) yet he was still able to maintain it for awhile – what if used at 100%?

  593. Good game, Mudshovel!

    Ninjutsu – I have shown that Amaterasu has a limited initial range. Yes, Amaterasu would eventually burn FRS, but the distance between the FRS (once hit by Amaterasu) and Itachi is 5m. Do you really believe that that limited space is enough to evaporate FRS before it hit Itachi? No, dude! Amaterasu has no force behind it, thus offers no resistance to FRS (which is being thrown at high speed). Physics does not support this and neither does your argument.

    Genjutsu – CRI has all the characteristics of a genjutsu. Opponent attempts to overpower the victim with his power and controls the flow of chakra in the victims brain, resulting in either phantasms (illusory sensations) or the ability to control the victims movements. Kakashi did the latter to Zabuza. Kyuubi negated CRI. This shows control of his Kyuubi. As Killer Bee said, genjutsu does not work on a host with control of his Bijuu. This coming from the man who negated Tsukuyomi! What more proof do we need?

    Speed: my point is that Naruto is faster than Itachi. A HUGE advantage. Do you surrender this point?

    Susano’o – will not be used except as last resort. This itachi will be worn out at this point, and Naruto will be winning. Itachi will enter the battle at 100%, but he won’t b using it at until he has no other option but. And it drains…

    Round 4? Or throw the towel in?

  594. Oh I forgot…

    Naruto’s movements will be perceivable, but so? That advantage was for predicting physical attacks; it will still be useless against the frog Katas.

  595. @darkavatar: this could go on for awhile

    Ninjutsu: However the huge destructive force of amaterasu doesn’t need force simply because it destroys all in its path. it might have a limited range however this can be adjusted if itachi wants to move it (he can) and once it has locked onto FRS, its history.

    Genjutsu: however there is a problem with CRI, 1- it has not been confirmed as a genjutsu, 2- if it is genjutsu, we do not know how strong it could be on the genjutsu scale. If it is genjutsu that nagato was trying to use on him – i guess this supports that naruto’s SK mode helps break genjutsu. however Tsukuyomi is different, unlike regular genjutsu, only the sharingan can offer resistance to it, i still do not think their is enough evidence that naruto has complete control over the kyuubi. also Itachi should be able to surpress the kyuubi to stop naruto entering SK mode anyway.

    Speed: Fair enough take it – even though i do believe the sharingan should still be able to track him and help Itachi counter his attacks

    Susano’o: True if he uses it as a last resort (we are assumeing this) he wouldn’t be at 100% – however a healthy body useing this tech and a sick body useing are 2 completely different stroies (not to mention naruto still has no way to counter/beat it anyway).


  596. *woops don’t know why ‘speed:’ showed up at the bottom 0_0

  597. you also must take into account – what about when he was fighting sasuke, who had 100% eyes at that stage, sasuke didn’t even notice Itachi make a clone bunshin to attack him with – sasuke whos speed was close to that of Itachi and the Sharingan to boot – couldn’t tell – what chance does naruto have?

  598. LOL @ Mudshovel – clone bunshin – clone clone. 😉

    Ninjutsu – Dude you do not make snse. Are you seriously telling me the FRS will just evaporate once touched by Amaterasu??? That makes no sense. True, it burns until there is nothing left. But that doesn’t mean instant evaporation. At the speed FRS is flying at Itachi, also taking into it’s density and spinning nature (dense object burns slower, spinning moving objects burn slower) and at 5m distance, FRS has more than enough time to reach Itachi. It is on fire aswell. Also FRS drains Sage Chakra, but with access to kyuubi’s chakra reserves, he won’t be tired from normal chakra depletion. There is no rest time between FRS, this is shown in his fight with Kakizu, where he had a clone use FRS at the same time he was, and he was barely out of breath.

    Genjutsu – Again, hachibi negated Tsukuyomi (check killer bee/sasuke’s fight again. The genjutsu that sasuke casts looks a lot like Tsukuyomi, complete with inverted colours and stabbing blades. He even has his MS out!)

    You can be fairly positive that CRI is genjutsu. As I said, it displays the same characteristics. And in regards to powerful genjutsu resistance, how cocky was Nagato when he first stabbed naruto with the chakra rod inside the paper tree? He, knowing full well that he was facing a Jinchiuriki in sage mode, declared it impossible for Naruyo to escape Nagato’s chakra influence. And naruto did anyway, to Nagato and Konan’s deep surprise. And that was without kyuubi really putting any effort into it! Based on this instance alone, I say there is more than enough evidence to say Naruto has gotten if not full control, then at least nearly full control of the Kyuubi.

    Speed- thanks again! Btw if you missed my earlier post, Sharingan helped Sasuke overcome Narito’s demon-taijutsu only. This will not help against frog katas. And even if he could see sage chakra, so what?Sasuke could see Kyuubi chakra…it still pwned him…

    Susano’o – we are going no where with this one. My only argument against this the same as I’ve said before…it’s a race to see whether Susano’o can hit the real Naruto with totsuka before itachi can no longer support it. And don’t say Naruto does not know enough to avoid Susano’o; anyone knows enough to avoid a huge mutha f*cking spirit sword! True, he may try Yata’s limits, but he will attempt to avoid totsuka.

    Round 5, or throw in the towel?

  599. btw, killer bee does not have sharingan. He countered Tsukuyomi. Tsukuyomi is out of the equation.

  600. oh, another thing: my original novel sized post said clearly that Naruto enters the battle in SK mode.

  601. @dark: its time to end this – i’m going to sleep shortly

    Ninjutsu: i’m not gonna argue this anymore, Amaterasu destroys whatever the eye is focused on, not to mention FRS is wind nature so this only helps Amaterasu. Amaterasu will win, case closed

    Genjutsu: Are you forgetting that Itachi will surpress the kyuubi, therefore genjutsu is back on the table.

    Speed: many different theories i have, none that are full proof will say he could, just don’t forgett the danger of getting close to Itachi as well (MS techs)

    Susano’o: atempt, atempt – are you ready to concede yet on this point?

  602. I sleep shortly too.

    Ninjutsu – youre not listening to me.so I won’t debate this point either. Try this though. Look at anytime Amaterasu has been used. As soon as it’s used, the pain in his eye is so sharp that the user must stop and recover. A la Sasuke vs Killer Bee. IF (this is a big if) Amaterasu counters FRS, what’s to stop Naruto using Rasengan on him while Itachi recovers like he did to Deva Path?. Don’t say split second Susano’o: it is generated by both eyes, and the Amaterasu eye is outta commision. Naruto’s superior speed (which YOU CONCEDED TO) helps this theory.

    Genjutsu – How? Sasuke must first penetrate naruto’s mind to get to Kyuubi. This is genjutsu; because it’s not sasuke who is physically jumping into naruto’s head, it’s his chakra. And SK mode negates genjutsu. No genjutsu on the table.

    Susano’o – as if. More like a stalemate. Naruto knows how to dodge, and confuse with Kage bunshins. We also know Totsuka is awesomeness. There is no way to prove that Susano’o will succeed or not in sealing naruto, we would need to see this fight actually happen to know for sure.

    Round 6? Or throw in the towel?

  603. Night, mudshovel, I’ll argue with you again in the morning…

  604. I think I won this though… DarkAvatar 3, Mudshovel 0 in this mini battle.

    But who cares!? I ain’t won until you say I have…so we still cool, brother mud! 🙂

  605. “Marksman looks at argument and is impressed at how well Mudshoval is doing all on his own. Marksman cheers and claps for mudshovel”

    Good job. Glade you on Itachis side. The winning side. Ok Timm has returned to the debate. Seeing as though you are still sleep i’ll defend your statements till you return.
    Hmm As for you Darkadvatar. Lets do this!

    Lets go back a bit here shall we. Sausgay appearing in narutos head could not be all ilusion or genjistu. Why. Sasugay never used genjistu. He started using genjistu after itachi tranfererd all his eyes teckniques ginjistu and all to sasugay well after the naruto sasugay fox incedent. If you still think sasugay appearing in naruto conciouse was genjistu then i guess evertime naruto even goes in is conciouse to talk to the fox its Genjitsu.
    When itachi used MS for amerestu he was one All ready exhausted before the fight even started. Two even more exhausted because the fight. And 3 he was all of a sudden dying of a random deases. These are the only reasons i see itachi exhausted to the extent he needs time to recover long enough to give naruto a chance to pwn him. Or at least attempt to.

    As for naruto dodgeing Susano. Hm. Thats very unlikely. ANd if he did manage to dodge itachi would be there to finish him after he had done so. ITachi can also be “Unpredictable” with this move and easily catch naruto seeing as though he doest have sharingan to predict this move and has never seen it anfd has no idea what it does. (this has been proven in the past)

    Naruto breaking out of genjistu with sage mode. Hmm. Unlikey, hasnt ever happend, if it had that ability im pretty sure pa frog or jman would have told naruto, Ibibki already explained why this wouldnt work,you cant gather sage energy when you are in a F$%# illusion. Using your own charkra i can see but gather sage energy and using your own chakra are 2 different things intirely.

    After naruto missis his shuricans and sage mode is over he is basically screwd.
    Ok MS Sharingan genjistu. Right ok. Narutos not stupid enough to look in itachis eyes. That can go both ways. ITachi is not dum enough to let naruto gather sage energy to go into sage mode. Face it without sage mode naruto is screwd.

  606. Bubble Contest

  607. *Looks at Mudshovel bleeding profusely from the eye and chakra nearly depleted from spamming of Amaterasu and Susasno*

    *Super grabs him a tissue*

    *Looks at Tenrai and Avatar who are just waiting for Mudshovel to run out of chakra and drop from over exhaustion*

    *Super then notices Marksman back in the debate*

    *Super is confused* 0_0

    Well hello again Marksman. Hold on let me check something…Ah, here it is.

    “Dont bother supertrek. If you havent noticed or if you are choosing not to notice im am done with this debate.Im Done as in Im NOT ARGUING ANYMORE!!!!!!!!!! O_O” (Mudshovel)

    Hmmmm…well I’m glad you changed your mind because the debate just wouldn’t be as fun without you! 😉

    @Mudshovel & Marksman: I’ll be getting to your posts soon enough.

  608. #mudshovel

    You asked me to come up with counters for Itachi’s jutsu and I did exactly that. You can’t argue with the fact that my reasons are valid and justified. If you want to start throwing hypothetical circumstances around again, next time warn me.


    Once again, we come to this. It seems my adversary has come out to play and I am needed for some damage control. Sheesh, I am gone for just a few hours and look what happens.

    Alright, firstly, as I have mentioned before, I doubt Itachi would use susanoo unless it was really necessary. If he is using it, it is probably because he is losing the fight already.

    Secondly, we still do not know the range or area of effect for Susanoo, so assuming that Naruto won’t be able to dodge it is stupid.

    Also, I agree with NAruto being able to break out of genjutsu with sage mode. I have explained it before and you know my reasons. Just because we haven’t seen Pa frog tell him it can, doesn’t mean it can’t. I am basing my argument on facts from the manga, laws of chakra that have been stipulated by the very pages we have read.

    The way genjutsu works is by controlling the chakra flow to the brain, we all know that (or at least most of us). The way to break a genjutsu is by disrupting that chakra flow by either…

    1: stopping your own chakra flow and then causing it to surge to disrupt it. Or…

    2: someone else pumps their chakra into you to disrupt your own chakra flow.

    Sage mode fulfills the second option, by introducing an outside chakra into Naruto’s body and dispelling the jutsu. It makes sense and it is perfectly reasonable logic in terms of the Naruto universe. If Naruto can control his chakra while in a genjutsu (as shown with his battle with Itachi) then he can also stay calm and pull in sage chakra.

    In fact, iTachi will be giving Naruto the opportunity to go into sage mode without even having to use a clone.

  609. #mudshovel

    You asked me to come up with counters for Itachi’s jutsu and I did exactly that. You can’t argue with the fact that my reasons are valid and justified. If you want to start throwing hypothetical circumstances around again, next time warn me.


    Once again, we come to this. It seems my adversary has come out to play and I am needed for some damage control. Sheesh, I am gone for just a few hours and look what happens.

    Alright, firstly, as I have mentioned before, I doubt Itachi would use susanoo unless it was really necessary. If he is using it, it is probably because he is losing the fight already.

    Secondly, we still do not know the range or area of effect for Susanoo, so assuming that Naruto won’t be able to dodge it is stupid.

    Also, I agree with NAruto being able to break out of genjutsu with sage mode. I have explained it before and you know my reasons. Just because we haven’t seen Pa frog tell him it can, doesn’t mean it can’t. I am basing my argument on facts from the manga, laws of chakra that have been stipulated by the very pages we have read.

    The way genjutsu works is by controlling the chakra flow to the brain, we all know that (or at least most of us). The way to break a genjutsu is by disrupting that chakra flow by either…

    1: stopping your own chakra flow and then causing it to surge to disrupt it. Or…

    2: someone else pumps their chakra into you to disrupt your own chakra flow.

    Sage mode fulfills the second option, by introducing an outside chakra into Naruto’s body and dispelling the jutsu. It makes sense and it is perfectly reasonable logic in terms of the Naruto universe. If Naruto can control his chakra while in a genjutsu (as shown with his battle with Itachi) then he can also stay calm and pull in sage chakra.

    In fact, Itachi will be giving Naruto the opportunity to go into sage mode without even having to use a clone.

    Face it, without the sharingan, Itachi is screwed. (I had to do that) XD

  610. @marksman

    Also, don’t try to counter saying that he’ll turn into a frog because o fthe chakra disruption.

    If Naruto can absorb sage chakra while his chakra is being absorbed from his own body (thus forcing him to continually compensate for the change in chakra to keep it balanced) without turning into a frog, then he can do the same for a genjutsu.

  611. Actually I won’t be back on until later this evening but BEWARE! When I get back on you best be prepared! >_<

    Just some quick points…

    1.) Tsukoyomi- Just like it would be hard to avoid getting into it it’ll also be hard getting someone into it when they’re prepared for it and have the knowledge about it like Naruto does. It goes both ways! I don’t see how you’ll can’t grasp this. And I never said Naruto can break out of it but he can damn well avoid it. How does Naruto fight someone without looking at his eyes or feet? Well there’s everything else in between like the legs, stomach, and chest all of which are major parts of the body and huge parts nonetheless.

    2.) Genjutsu- Nope, not explaining for the 15th time how Sage Chakra would help him combat this. Not only that but the Kyubi Chakra if need be. But I do have another reason to believe Sage Chakra would help. Genjutsu manipulates the mind’s chakra right? Who’s to say Itachi would know how to manipulate Natural Energy when he’s never encountered it before? He’s familar with regular chakra. He’s familar with Kyubi chakra. He’s not familiar with Sage chakra though and it is hard to handle for people who haven’t trained with it. Did Itachi ever train with Natural Energy? No!

    Itachi WOULD have difficulty suppressing the Bijuu since it happened to Naruto over 100 chapters ago and he’d be more prepared for it. Not only that but YES it was genjutsu Marskman. Naruto does not cast genjutsu on himself to talk to the fox don’t be ridiculous! The fox is inside him and they are connected so he can use his conscious to talk to it anytime he pleases. How else could Sasuke impress himself into Naruto’s mind without the power of genjutsu? Genjutsu controls the mind chakra so it only makes since.

    3.) Speed- *sigh*

    4.) Ninjutsu- Susano drains Itachi and if he uses it…it would only be effective as a defensive measure. Trying to use the big ass sword on Naruto’s many Kage Bushins and wasting energy would make it offensively a waste of time.

    Amaterasu- It has never shown Itachi being able to smother Amaterasu. He can cast it, guide it, and stop releasing it. But he can’t smother it. This is what it takes to smother and undo Amaterasu ttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/415/11/. Has Itachi ever done that? Not only that but again even if Itachi uses Amaterasu on Naruto’s clones he’d be wasting energy. He wouldn’t do that as Mudshovel has said so Amaterasu is basically only a move he can use when he’s 100% sure of himself and even then he might be wrong.

    GAH! So much to cover so little time. I’ll be back! 😀

  612. BUBBLE:

    Konan: Nagato … u look more emo than normal..what happen?
    The_spindle: Konan…need help.. I ran out of toilet paper..Im thinking of cut my veins again
    Naruto: Hey ! Look! I can be pretty emo myself 😉

  613. “MArksman looks up at supertrek and advatar who have inevidable ran out of sage chakra trying profusly not to look into the eyes of the sharingan. There attempts to bring out the kyubi have failed do to the sharingan subjective will. Marksman then sees a Large Man eating beast waiting to pounce on a helpless child”

    Ok back to the debate. I see Supertrek has returned. And My worthy adversary is here. Ok guys. Lets get down to business. Ok Supertrek. I’ll start with you. Oh and yea im back sorry about the confusion. Yesterday i was getting pissed of at naruto and itachi because we debated all day. But now im better^_^ Im going to argue all you points in the order you have them ok? My opinions are just my opinions.

    1Tysumiyan what ever it is: I agree with you…. Somewhat. Naruto does have some knoledge on that thanks to kakashi. However he is not as prepared to fight against that as you say he is. He only knows what kakashi does. AS a matter of fack i dont even think he knows about the whole fight him by looking at his feet thing. Only guy does. No where in the show or manga is naruto told about this accept with kakashi during the 30%itachi battle. Guy said to fight based on the feet movements knowing that if you looked aneware your perifial vision can still get caught. And after that. Game over.

    2: Genjitsu: Ibiki already explained how the sage theory wouldnt work. I am not repeating or explaining it again. I seriouly think that ITACHI of all people has more ways of catching you with genjitsu then pointing at you. And seeing how narutos weakness is genjitsu itself theres not much naruto can do here. And you cant just assume itachi has never encounterd a sage before. Its not in the manga so we cant really sa for sure. We dont even no if itachi ever trianed with natural energy or not.

    2and a half: Again it was not genjistu. For one naruto was already there in his conciouse WELLL before sasuke, (caugh) exscuse me” Sasugay showed up and surpressed it. We were only shown how people with the sharingan can surpress the kyubi. If it was a genjitsu it would have been broken for naruto going kyubi on the outside.

    3: Speed “sigh” Naruto is not that fast to begin with. True sage mode increase his speed but i dont he can keep up with itachi. He could even keep up with sasugay when sai had to save him. We all know sasugays speed. He was able to keep up with number eight. Seeing as how itachi speed is better then sasugay, sharingan more advanced then sasugays i would have to say itachi whens this battle. ESPECIALLY when it comes to hand seals!!!

    4: Where in the manga does it say summining susano drians his chakra. I dint see it. Im not being sarcastic. Honestly i want to know. I think i missed that part and i hate when i miss stuff. But i agree if its there…….somewhat. Because it caught Maru off gaurd and he actually KNEW about it so if itachi brings that out and attacks at the same time i dont see naruto surviving very long.

    And when itachis 100 sure he never wroung^_^.

  614. Bubble:

    Konan: How did he found us…

    Nagato: It’s impossible…

    Naruto: Hiding inside a giant vagina… NICE!!!!

  615. marksman…don’t dance wit supertrek, you wanna dance with me? Lolzz Whos run ouuta sage chakra?

    Gejutsu – I’m not gonna even argue that point with you. I have already proven that SK Naruto is immune to genjutsu…see my post to Mudshocvel regarding this. I’m not gonna explain it again.

    Susasno’o – I posted a link to the page zetsu says this earlier in the debate.

    Speed – I already beat this point from mudshovel. Naruto is faster. Unless you are suggesting that Itachi could outrun the Kyuubi.. Pfffft. Sharingan may help with predicting movements, but Naruto is still faster.

    2andahalf – ridiculous. I cannot believe that people really believe that it is not genjutsu. Are you telling me sasuke really jumps into naruto’s concsioisness and rubs down the kyuubi till it begs like a good doggy? no. It is my theory that the whole boiler room seal thingy is just a visual representation of what is going on inside his head. Either way, he would need to penetrate naruto’s consciousness first before attempting to suppress the kyuubi. Kinda hard to do when Naruto is genjutsu-proof.

    Hey, by the way, don’t get offended by the sarcasm in my tone. I’m not being rude, I’m just discrediting your arguments. 😉


  617. LMAO!!! XD Dammit, I’m done with this debate. We’re going around in circles here and don’t worry when I say I’m done with a debate it means I’m done. (Unlike Marksman and Reflex) Lol, jkjk…but not really! 😉

    Itachi supporters say Naruto can’t break from genjutsu Naruto supporters say he can. One side argues the same point and the other side argues the same point. I know that this is a debate but this is getting ridiculous going back in forth over ONE topic for 4 damn days! As I see no conclusive proof that Naruto can’t break from genjutsu besides what was shown to us over 100 chapters ago and I have already addressed Ibiki’s arguments against Sage Chakra not being able to break genjutsu I’m sticking to my theory and evidence that Sage Chakra WILL help Naruto break genjutsu. And if need be…the Kyubi Chakra. This is just my opinion based off of the links and sources I provided numerous time.

    Itachi controlling the Nine Tails? I’m not even bothering going over that GENJUTSU again. 😛

    And just for you Marksman since you missed it. ttp://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/393/02/. And if that’s not enough for you,

    “Usage of the Mangekyou techniques drains quite a bit of a user’s chakra, more so than any other normal technique. Also as a result of Mangekyou usage, the bearer will slowly lose their vision. Madara lost his vision before his brother and sought to regain his power.” (ttp://www.leafninja.com/doujutsu.php)

    Susano, Amaterasu, and Tsukoyomi are all Mangekyou techniques. Using anyone of those depletes your chakra reserves greatly and not only that but eventual loss of vision. 0_0

    The thing that irks me the most are the Itachi supporters underestimating Naruto’s current ability based off of past failings. Naruto learns as he goes and he learns from his mistakes. You’ll make it look like it’s so easy for Itachi to get Naruto in genjutsu as if he didn’t learn anything from his first two encounters. As if Naruto will just stand there and open his eyes wide to let Itachi get him in genjutsu, lol. Jeez, well those are my last 2 cents on the debate for this breakdown. If I offended anybody I’m sorry I know I can be sarcastic and accidentally offend someone when I don’t mean to. So, have fun with this debate because now it’s just turning into a circus full of clowns. And remember clowns are SCARYYYY! ^_^

  618. LOL super!!! Ok, it’s cool, but truly no one bar mudshovel has attempted to counter my genjutsu argument…he conceded that it displays control and that kyuubi can break genjutsu.

  619. @dark:

    Ninjutsu: yeah i have theories also on how Itachi would pwn naruto, but as we are both saying – just theories.

    Genjutsu: He used his sharingan and its insight abilities to see the kyuubi – are you also saying that the conversation he had with the kyuubi could be done if it was a genjutsu? Genjutsu is when you take over the opponents 5 senses by disrupting your opponents chakra flow to the brain with your own,The sub-conscience isn’t apart of the 5 senses, therefore genjutsu has no control over it. sasuke entered his sub-conscience with his insight and viewed the kyuubi – talked to it then surpressed it, didn’t control naruto in anyway.

    Susano’o: Fine, just as i can provide no concrete proof (except presumptions) that naruto would be hit by totsuka, you can’t provide any (except presumptions) that naruto could break this tech and avoid it.

    @senshi: true you came up with ways to defeat those 3 techs, but they were theories. you said he could avoid eye contact, i provided an arguement that said he was not experienced in that way to be able to do that perfectly. for Amaterasu you said that if you could disrupt your oppoients vision or hide if would be ineffective, (disrupt his eyes would be hard to do) i replied though that just hiding doesn’t guarantee safety. Finaly for susano’o i once again stated other possibilities.

    I’m not saying that they’re not valid but they are just theories that i provided an arguement on how to get through them. Hypothetical? isn’t this whole debate hypothetical.

  620. Oh noez…is this the end of DarkDroTenTrek?

    We are now DarDroTenrai….hey cool! Team DDT! lolzz

  621. @super: stop bitching dude, i have also shown points that to some degree show that he can’t avoid the genjutsu forever by not looking into itachis eyes/at his finger etc. If anyone should be annoyed at the moment its me, seeing as nobody has bothered to read half my post, so im restateing stuff again and again. and on the whole depleating chakra – FRS! only 2 to get out of sage mode, hasn’t been stated how many he can do in SK mode. once he’s outta sage mode he is pretty much f’ed. if itachi avoids one of those, naruto is at a huge dissadvantage. works both ways man.

  622. mudshovel, youre not helping yourself

    Ninjutsu – DRAW. Dark – 3.5, Mud – 0.5

    Genjutsu – Yes, that is what I am saying. You can’t take that scene too literally. Via his Sharingan, Sasuke was able to pincture Narito’s consciousness and see the Kyuubi. By forcing his chakra into narito and into the “seal room”, and using it to smother the kyuubi, the kyuubi was able to communicate briefly with sasuke where sasukes chakra and the kyuubis chakra met. Oh, and YOU EGGHEAD!!! LOL!!! What controls the 5 senses? The brain and nervous system! To control his 5 senses, sasuke needs to control the chakra flow through his opponents brain! And where is the subconsciousness? IN THE BRAIN.

    Susano’o – DRAW AGAIN Dark – 4, Mud – 1

    You are running out of arguments…next round?

  623. @super: also on the amaterasu point you made about not stopping it – do you really think he would have used it onsasuke, iof he couldn’t – HUGE risk to his plans if sasuke got envelloped by it. can provide refs to back this up, but i all ready have, just like i have all ready replyed to all those points you have made – and im going round in circles just to entertain you.

  624. @Mudshovel: Stop writing and go over and read my post again. Of all people I didn’t expect you act like an asshole! We’re all annoyed here which is the primary reason I got out of the debate. “We’re going around in circles here”…That is what I said because this debate is going nowhere and neither side can convince the other. Since you can’t seem to control your temper maybe you should also step down from the debate because another comment like that from you and I’ll really think you’re an asshole. I’m didn’t insult anyone here my last comment. You’ll put up some great debates and I just put up my last 2 cents and stated my opinion. If that annoyed you somehow then cry me a river.

    And you should know that I NEVER skipped any of your posts and in fact addressed every one of your points. I even used a damn numerical system so I could keep track! So where do you get off saying I’m bitching just for stepping down from this f**ked up debate? After all of this that’s your response! You better check yourself Mudshovel!

  625. whoa…sh!t bro…don’t mess wit da TREK!

  626. @dark: how come you start off at 3? lol – Amaterasu trumps FRS make that 3:1 , then 3.5:1.5, 4:2,


  627. *woops – i’m getting to your genjutsu thing now – only ment to submit the top part – sorry

  628. @super: sorry dude, didn’t mean for it come out like that, as you say im annoyed that ppl are ignoring my previous post as ppl are to yours. sorry again

  629. Experience + Speed + Taijutsu = 3

  630. Experience? experience at what? (granted speed + Taijutsu).

  631. @Mudshovel: It’s cool dude. It’s been a long debate for all of us. I need to cool down now.

    *Pulls out the latest Hinata Icha Icha Paradise* Hehehe… 😉

  632. You don’t get the amaterasu point. I back my argument with real world physics, plus the fact that Amaterasu has never instantly evaporated anything (if it had, that plant would be dust loooooong before it lit the forest on fire). And you are stuck on the one argument that says that Amaterasu burns everything it touches – WHICH I DONT DENY – and instead I use that argument against you.

  633. sorry – unpredictability + speed + taijutsu = 3

  634. @Dark: i diagree on the amaterasu point, but i’m done man, i’ve had enough – i’m out of this debate now, i can’t come up with a perfect arguement to your last genjutsu point. I still think Itachi will win though, and still don’t think there is enough proof that naruto has control of the kyuubi. But as i said i’m done, have fun to whoever wants to take over.

  635. Naruto FTW…lolzz no worries mudshovel! Good game! Now bring on the next!

  636. BUBBLE:

    Konan: All this arguing of Itachi vs Naruto is giving me a headache. You’d think it would’ve been over by now…

    Nagato: I know. Everyone knows our boy Itachi would kick Naruto’s arse to kingdom come! I mean how can anyone beat Susanoo..

    Naruto: Now hold on there buddy. I’ve got sage-kyubbi mode now. Plus rasenshuriken, kage bunshin, an almost unlimited chakra supply…Crap we’ve officialy become Narutards!!!!

  637. “marksman looks at Supertrek and then darkadvatar. Then marksman looks at the wild man eating beast no one is paying attention to. Marksman backs away slowly”

    Ok supertrek fair game. Thanks for providing the link. I saw your point and now i agree with you. That is one point you made that i will not argu with you with because you are right. I Must off skimed over it. I see your done though. Fair game bro.

    As for you darkadvatar. Im going to call you darkness^_^. Now that i know you were playing like you said and made me look like a cry baby winey B@#$ ive seen your sarcasm as is. Sorry for the out burst eilier.

    Fair game guys. In the end i guess everyone is entitled to there own opinions. I dont want to be a clown supertrek. They are scary. So im outa this debate now. Fureal this time.

    Good match my worth y advesary Tieshi. I hope that we are on teams in the next debate.

    Ahhhhhhh so now what? ” Marksman walks in the opisite direction of the ,man eating beast and goes away.

  638. @Marksman: Now we go back to the bubble contest! Times almost up to place in the top 10! 😀 You know what? I can’t even remember what my last bubble even was…*goes to check*…LMAO! XD That one was pretty funny if you ask me. 😉

  639. @marksman – we cool, bro LOL

  640. BUBBLE:
    Konan: Hey Nagato, looks like that blow up doll that you ordered if finally here.
    Nagato: Stupid UPS…next day delivery my skinny, almost non existent ass…By the way Konan, it’s not just a blow up doll…It’ll help me in my people skills…I’m practicing to be a telemarketer. You know, being in this dumpster greatly hinders my career choices.
    Naruto: *thinking to himself* “Do I really look like a blow up doll? This is so depressing” *sigh*

  641. BUBBLE:

    Konan: “Finish him off Nagato.”

    Nagato: “Wait, I want to know his answer!”

    Naruto: “Answer huh? Here’s my answer. Gear Second!”

    LMAO!!! XD Anybody knows One Piece would get that! 😛

  642. i know im a bit late but …

    all this genjustu discussion made me think this whole thing over and i just realized that in the entire manga not a single genjutsu user, even though they sometimes looked superior, never really won.
    jiraya vs pain 0-1
    sasuke vs eightO 0-0
    itachi vs team kaka 0-1

    etc think about it you wont find anyone being utterly defeated by a genjutsu user

  643. in the naruto iitachi fight narutos gonna win because he has now sage chakra which is difficult to control and also he has the experience of fighting a sharingan user now. We have seen this in the last chapter that when nagato fires the rod on naruto he cant control him because of the sage chakra and the same thing will happpen in this fight and when combined with the kyubbi chakra there are more chances that he will win.

    Cmon guys this is sage naruto not some week guy.

  644. bubble:
    Konan: what are you waiting for kill him u WEEK good for nothing zombie.
    Nagato: Answeeer….answeerrrr….painnnnn…..paiiinnnn.
    Naruto:WTF people thought there would be a hell of a fight here anyway…. HERE COMES THE PAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  645. @bostankhan6 – thanks for the support…pity you’re a week late though! At least SOMEONE read my post about CRI/Genjutsu lol

  646. hmmmmmm im gonna go with Itachi because he has his sharigan, genjutsu etc etc althought i/ all of us dont know naruto’s sage-kyuubi mode yet so i aint sure who would win (would like to point out i havnt read any of the cmmnts so i aint keepin up with wot all u are debating)

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