The Truth Behind Itachi…

Hey, Dylan (Ix RefleX xI) here with my first post. Lately, I’ve been noticing talk in the comments that suggests Madara was lying about Itachi being a good guy. The question of whether he was really good or not was even brought up in a recent post. So, in order to erase all doubt (and because Itachi is one of my favorite characters), I decided to explore the mysterious life of Itachi…

itachi-on-the-moon

But before we start:


Anyways, as most of you probably know, the thought of Itachi being good all this time was surprising to say the least. Hell, it even made #1 spot on the 2008 awesomeness year end breakdown. But is it really true? Is it really possible that someone as evil as Itachi seemed could really be “good” under his dark, mysterious exterior?

Ever since Madara first told Sasuke the “truth” about his brother, many skeptics criticized the idea as being insane. Even those who did believe it was true had to have had some reasonable doubt, because the idea just seems so crazy at first. I mean, after all, this is the famous missing-nin who killed his whole clan!! How can Kishi say that he was really a good guy after he’s dead?!? It became even harder to believe since chapter 404, where Madara admits to Kisame that he tricked Sasuke into joining him. But does this mean he was lying about Itachi, or something else? Is Itachi still “good” despite Madara’s trickery? Personally, I believe the answer is a resounding yes. At first, I, like many of you, was very skeptical. Since then, I have gone back through the manga looking for any signs that Itachi could really have been “good”. What I found was surprising, even to me. There are several occasions where Itachi seems to be acting strange for the evil Akatsuki member he’s supposed to be. While most people would normally write these off as unimportant or unnecessary, they’re actually quite important once you take the time to consider them. To show how important they really are and to save you the time of covering 430+ chapters looking for them yourselves, I’ve organized what I found into a handy list, just for you guys.

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Maito Gai is here to serve!!!!

Reasons:

Why didn’t Itachi Kill Sasuke with the rest of the Uchiha clan?

This is one of the first and most confusing questions about Itachi. There are 3 theories about why Itachi did this. The first was that Itachi wanted to fight Sasuke when he was older so he could “test his own skills”. The second is that Itachi wanted to steal Sasuke’s eyes. However, both of these were proven wrong at the end of the Itachi / Sasuke battle. Right before Itachi dies, he did the complete opposite of both these theories when he transferred his powers to Sasuke. The third theory was explained to us by Madara several issues after the fight. He tells Sasuke that Itachi had done everything he had done in order to protect him and Konoha. This is the only theory that has yet to be proven wrong. It was even backed up when Sasuke remembers seeing a tear in Itachi’s eye the night he left.

 

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Who says Itachi doesn't care??

Why does Kisame see Itachi “crying” when Deidara goes suicidal on Sasuke?

This one is pretty self-explanatory… WHY THE F*** IS ITACHI CRYING!!! Sure Kisame says that he’s not sure if Itachi is, but.. have a look for yourself below. And even if he isn’t, why does Kishi go through so much effort to make it look like he is?!? In my opinion, these images were actually put in the manga to warn us ahead of time that Itachi was “good”, or to at least show he had a heart. Most of us were just too stupid to pick up on it till 20 issues later when it outright told us the truth.

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Someone should tell him Sasuke's not dead... Oh yeah. He "already knows"

 

Why would he give Naruto some of his powers?

This is self-explanatory too. Sure, he knew that he was about to lose to Sasuke (on purpose), but if he was truly evil, why would he have given Naruto some of his powers? Did he just think it was funny to make things harder for his evil cohorts to capture Naruto later? Or was it his final way of ensuring Konoha’s safety? (I say this because I believe that whatever power Itachi gave Naruto could surface in his battle with Pein) Could it possibly be a way to help Naruto in his unavoidable fight with Sasuke? While we may not know what the power is intended for, or what it is, the main point is.. What was the purpose of giving his “enemy” any powers at all?? (… worst evil villain ever!!)

 

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Hehe. I could make so many jokes about this picture, but I'll spare you guys ^_^

 

Why did he seem ”off” in his fight against Sasuke?

I’m sure we all remember the fight between Sasuke and Itachi. Many of us had been waiting for this fight since Sasuke first left Konoha. And, while most people seemed fairly satisfied with the battle between brothers, should it have lasted so long? As Zetsu is watching the fight, he comments several times on how Itachi seems “off”, like he’s not using his full skills. Now considering how close the fight was, what would the result have been if Itachi had used just a bit more power? … Itachi wins. (not a big shocker) So why wouldn’t he be fighting his hardest? As we found out after the fight was over, Itachi really lost on purpose so Sasuke could gain mangekyou and all of his power. In other words, he was still looking out for his little bro by sacrificing himself to give his brother more powers. (Just as Madara said…) While some people have speculated that he may be weaker because he gave Naruto power or because Madara was stealing his chakra, does that really make sense?? Considering all we know about how strong Itachi is, he still should have been fighting a lot better than he was. So, protecting his bro is the only explanation that really makes sense here. (notice how these are starting to fit together?)

 

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Why does Itachi want to eliminate Madara?

Ah, yes, yet another one of the mysteries surrounding Itachi. This looks like an easy one at first. The Uchihas generally hate each other.. makes sense that they would want to kill each other, right?? Sure it does, but only if you are looking at it from the surface. As we found out several issues later, Madara’s goal in life is to destroy Konoha (its people, not just the city… I’m looking at you Pein!!) So if Itachi is “good” and he knew that Madara was trying to destroy Konoha, that gives a better, more justified reason to kill him than simply “He’s an Uchiha”, right?? In other words, Itachi good + Madara bad = they want to kill each other. So this opens another question. Why wouldn’t Itachi try to kill Madara earlier? Simple. Itachi knew Madara was stronger and that he would lose so he used Sasuke as a last desperate attempt to eliminate Madara. (once again.. trying to protect Sasuke AND Konoha)

 

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Yes. It's all going according to plan... Soon I, Madara Uchiha, will destroy Konoha!! .. Wait, Pein did what?!? GODDAMNIT!!

 

As you can see, for an evil villain, Itachi sure did a lot of unusual things. I mean… Is it really possible that someone who took so many steps to protect his little bro can still be evil?? Knowing Kishi, the answer is never clear. But right now, all signs point to Itachi being a good guy.

 

So if these predictions are correct and Itachi was a good guy, then how did Madara “trick” Sasuke? Well the answer to that is actually simple. He told the truth about Itachi, but only to an extent. We figured out a couple issues after Sasuke won that Itachi had been intending to die at the hands of Sasuke so he could give Sasuke the mangekyou and his powers. In other words, he’s wanted Sasuke to kill him ever since he left God knows how long ago. So Madara takes Itachi’s noble sacrifice and blames it on the third Hokage and Konoha’s elders. Now Sasuke, finally knowing the “truth” about his bro, is pissed at Konoha’s elders, because ANOTHER member of his clan is dead. (even though Itachi told the elders not to tell Sasuke) It’s actually quite amazing how one simple lie can change things so much, but in this case it did. Now instead of Sasuke taking up the noble cause of protecting the Leaf Village like his brother intended, he wants to… kill its elders… How fun!!!

While this wasn’t exactly Itachi’s goal, I do believe it will work out as far as the whole manga goes. Why?? Because guess who Sasuke’s got to go through to get to Konoha and its elders now… Naruto. It’s also quite convenient that Naruto has gotten about 20x stronger since then and could already be near Sasuke’s level (I stress the word near here, because to fight Sasuke, Naruto is going to have to learn to fight the Sharingan.) Coincidence… hell no!! I believe a NaruSasu confrontation could be right around the corner, and may happen sometime this year or early 2010!! Will it be the final battle between Naruto and Sasuke? Probably not (I believe the final battle will be right before the manga ends, or at least after a time skip). Once again, knowing Kishi, the answer is never clear, but considering all the things that are starting to happen involving both Naruto and Sasuke, you just can’t help but wonder how much longer it is going to be before some kind of confrontation takes place.

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~ by Ix ReFleX xI on February 2, 2009.

201 Responses to “The Truth Behind Itachi…”

  1. Fiiiiiiiiiiiiirst!

  2. Second HOLY SHIZNIT!!!!

  3. DAMN YOU BONO!!! From what gates of hell did you spawn from to beat me here?…….Alright sorry about that I’m calm now…

  4. One day I’ll write a post called The truth about Bono… if only you guys knew what I can’t say…

    @_@

  5. third!!!!
    bono’s back from the dead

  6. Itachi’s good….He has to be…..
    He is a God
    I wish i had a Itachi icon…..
    *Stops and stares at Jeremiah*….

  7. Nice post Ix ReFleX xI, puts it all together very neatly, I also don’t doubt that Itachi is a good guy and I’d like to see someone prove otherwise.

    So I guess the main question left now is, if the third and the elders weren’t to blame for making Itachi kill his clan, then who or what was?

    and also was the real reason for Itachi killing his clan in order to prevent them from making a coup for the village, or were the Uchiha actually peaceful? This could also be part of Madara’s manipulation of Sasuke so that he is convinced he must join Akatsuke in order to complete his clans coup! Then again, against 8 tails Sasuke does say that he’s also using Akatsuki, so how much he believes Madara isn’t really known…

  8. I dunno i doubt sasuke even cares one way or another about what madaras plans are truthfully i dont think he even cares if he gets a tailed beast i think theres something else he has up his sleeve. so far each mangekyou user has had theier own unique technique and mangegkyou and weve only seen sasuke use itachis techs so far. My guess is he figured pout his unique thech and hasnt used it yet and whatever it is makes him think he doesnt even need the eight tails to kill the elders or naruto

  9. I just had a thought, what if Danzo issued the order to Itachi? And just said that it was from the elders? That’s possible right? I mean Danzo is kind of a sick f*ck and who knows how long he’s been plotting to take over Konoha. I don’t know, that probably doesn’t make sense, but it popped in my head.

  10. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/222/17/

    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/223/15/

    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/224/04/

    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/403/17/

    ok so i remembered reading the story leading up to itachis slaughtering of the uchiha and a couple things stood out…..

    1. he is ready to pwn the police force, sasuke stopped him. why would itachi just give up? i dont think he wanted sasuke to get caught in any crossfire, or get any wrong impressions.

    2. his father tells him not to follow his brother, he must know about itachis mangekyou, or he knows that itachi is a double agent. either way sasuke’s dad is incredibly important in all of this.

    3. their father was always spending time with itachi because he wanted him to take his place at head of the clan, after itachi “went to the dark side” sasuke got all the attention from their father, clearly he knows itachi doesnt put the clan first, so sasuke is his better option.

    4. sasuke after hearing everything from madara isnt really doing anything because his brother made a sacrifice, i think all along he planned on this because of what his father said to him as a child. killing the elders is just an added bonus for by extension killing his father.

    also who knows exactly what happened in the battle between shisui and itachi? isnt it possible that shisui attcked itachi in order to gain mangekyou? very unlikely but its a thought. i think a good idea for a time skip deal would be to show everything from itachis point of view, possibly show the battle between him and his father, i think that would answer a lot of questions.

    great post |x ReFleX x| 🙂

  11. Nice job reflex! I still can’t call a guy who murdered his entire clan ‘good’ no matter what his motive. There are things ‘good’ people just don’t do no matter who tells you what or the situation. Hmmm…come to think of it that would be really interesting: if Itachi had said no (no to the elders, no to Madara, not to Akatsuki…), what were his alternatives?

    He was manufacturing Sasuke into a weapon, and although he cared for him (or so his tears seem to say), he didn’t stop putting the iron into the fire so to speak. Did he really, really have Sasuke’s best interests at heart or just the protection of him as a political pawn?

  12. SHIT!!! Kishimo….urgh,,,BONO’s BACK!!!, Now i’ll have to bring mah GAME ON!!!!

  13. well good i wouldn’t call him, maybe machivellian… but he still twiasted and dark in his own way. If he was able to kill his dear friends and family, along with his lover (i was hoping for more, but it’s kishi so a mention is all this will get…) he should have been able to kill his brother easily. There’s way more to this story than has been told so far. There is just too many inconsistencies for me to believe this straight up. Much like the fourth ended up picking Naruto to take his spot, i’m sure madara picked saskue and itachi because they’re incredibly close to his own bloodline and may be a direct descendants. But when Itachi became sick it was all put on saskue for whatever goal’s madara has planned…

  14. i want to welcome bono back with the only way i ever have:

    f yourself and your chick shaggin ways…

  15. crazy awsome post i think he is good and didnt some where during those chapters with madara didne madara say that itachi wanted sasuke to be the hero because his father would ignore him and stuff.

  16. That was hash Bono beat you at the only thing he cares about…
    Maybe instead of 1st he should try to beat you only? ^_^
    Then he may try more.
    Its clear that since this blog is so large now that he cant keep up. I remember back in June Jeremiah was freakin out about like 5000 hits in 1 day…now we can get like 25,000.

  17. Great post. ^_^

    I always thought Itachi was a good guy. Maybe because I liked his character so much.

    Someone mentioned Danzo. That could be the link between Danzo & Akatsuki! ^_^

    Btw, notice how Danzo has his left eye covered… the same eye thats covered by Madara’s mask!!! (sorry if this has been mentioned… I’m new here)

    Yesterday I mentioned that Naruto was going to sacrifice himself to save Sasuke… but now I think the powers Igachi gave Naruto will save his life. ^_^ Naruto will be able to save Sasuke because of Itachi always looking out for his younger brother. ^_^

  18. Well done Dylan.

    Whether or not you call Itachi a “good guy” may depend on your perspective… and the whole truth of the underlying events. From Konoha’s perspective, based on what we’ve now been told, he’s one of the good guy’s who put konoha’s survival above even his Clan’s survival. Although his methods appear to be brutal, we don’t yet know the context, much less the whole story.

    Based on Kishi’s most recent disclosures, Itachi is certainly a more sympathetic character. That characterization may be reinforced, blunted or completely reversed by the next set of revelations.

    @Ibiki – This might make for some bunnies. Three separate shorts, Itachi as … 1. The Epic Hero. 2. A Shakespearean tragic hero. 3. The Devil incarnate. All based on changing the underlying facts of the Uchiha massacre.

  19. Correction- If more than a handful of people in Konoha knew the current “facts” behind Itachi’s “rampage” in the house Uchiha, the people of Konoha would consider him one of the “good guys.”

  20. I honestly think that Danzo had something to do with all of this. In the manga it is stated that the third was against any action against Uchiha.
    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/399/16/

    If you look at this scan it says “He put the stability of the village first and worked towards peace. That’s the kind of man he was.” He loved the village and would do anything for it. It says that the ELDERS used that to their advantage….but the picture is only of Danzo. If it was all four of them why would Kishi only draw Danzo into that frame? So i’m thinking that Danzo is behind thit whole Uchiha extermination plan.

  21. it might help if I posted the scan that i’m refering too.

    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/400/05/

  22. @ jdb … thats the reason i put “good guy” in quotations.. since the whole story hasnt really been told yet i can’t just assume that he is so i had to leave some reasonable doubt

  23. I think Bono is the account used to upload the new posts, then a “First” post is thrown in there just to screw with people.

    I have one thing I wanted to add to backup the Itachi = good storyline.

    Watch the last 10 minutes of Naruto Shippuden episode 15, when Naruto kills the psudo-Itachi. Once he connects with a Giant Rasengan at 18:20 – 18:23 Itachi smiles at Naruto. I believe this is because he is proud to see that Naruto has grown strong and is progressing towards a shinobi who could protect the Leaf village. Naruto is baffled by it and comments on this at 18:37.

    Also in this same episode starting at 15:22 – 18:03 a flashback scene takes place where Jariaya puts the idea in Narutos mind about manipulating Rasengan to become a unique Jutsu that will be easier to connect with.

    I used the Viz Media streaming video to research this. The time lines from their site will match up so you can view it yourself.

  24. @ ibiki … whether or not sasuke is a pawn or not is for us to find out later i suppose… i just went on current facts… and the only reason i used “good” was for lack of better words…

    oh and i dont think he had any alternatives… he had 2 choices at the time. Spy on konoha, or spy on / kill his own clan for the good of konoha. Based on those options i think he chose the lesser of 2 evils but i agree.. killing your clan isnt “good” no matter what but i think this may help explain things a bit

    http://www.mangakong.com/manga/Naruto/400/1

    read the whole chapter… it explains how he could kill his clan and still be “Good” in a sense

  25. @ Orion – great comment. I’ll have to check that out.

  26. @Ix ReFleX xI

    I reread my comment and it wasn’t very clear that I was defending the position that Itachi could be called “good”, given the right circumstances. The comment was actually directed at a couple of previous comments by Ibiki and Alec.

    That said, your first “good”,in quotations, was preceded by three good[s],not in quotations. It was something I wouldn’t have noticed until you noted that you placed “good guy” in quotations, to indicata “that the whole story hasn’t told yet.” 🙂

    Excellent post, I found it to be insightful and entertaining’

  27. First, I want to say how much I loved seeing this entire topic as a real, honest-to-goodness post! ^_^ I’ve been entertaining the idea of putting something like this together for a while, but it probably wouldn’t have been quite so in depth …

    And now for my two cents on the matter! One of the things that bugs me most about Itachi killing off the entire Uchiha clan because of the supposed coup d’etat is that there had to have been at least a few that weren’t part of the conspiracy. I mean seriously, how can an entire clan all be planning a coup? Aside from the children, you’d think at least some of the adults would be against the idea of a rebellion. Itachi could have just assassinated the leaders of the plot, and the rest would have unraveled from there like happens under any other similar circumstances. I said before in my time skip post that I don’t think Madara has told us the real truth behind the Uchiha massacre, and your post only backs up my theory even more. Great job!

  28. @ jbd … i know that.. i just wanted to clear that up for the whole post in general 🙂

  29. oh… and i realized i forgot the quotations after i posted it unfortunately 😦

  30. honestly you cant call one person “good” or “evil” a persons actions are based on their morals, everyone, in their own mind, thinks they are doing the right thing, and they are the “good” guy. Pain is a perfect example of this, he just destroyed konoha, and he wants to basically destroy the world, but the way he sees it he is doing this to achieve peace and end war. Itachi took out his whole clan which looks evil to everyone, but he did it to prevent a civil war which would probably end the fire nation. we think danzou is evil, but everything he does, even though it seems extreme, is for the better of the village.

    so you really cant classify someone as “good” or “evil” based on their actions, you need to look at their motives or what they are feeling when they do things.

  31. @ Ix ReFleX xI – I can’t even write a comment without typos.

    @elfarren- Great comment – I hope we find out that Madera had something to do with the ruthessness of the massacre. Maybe he killed all or most of the clan, or he somehow “compelled” Itachi to kill the entire clan.

  32. @ jdb … i know what you mean man… i always have to triple check all my comments just to make sure 😛

  33. @ renzy – i understand what you mean by this… thats why i tried to use the term “good” loosely. what i really mean by it though is what would be considered “good” in naruto’s perspective (no destroying konoha isnt a good thing!!!)

  34. @ Ix ReFleX xI thats the whole deal with naruto though is he is able to see good in everyone *cough* *cough* gaara *cough*

  35. well as i said earlier i used “good” with itachi for lack of better words… i think it gets the general point across fine though, so im ok with it 😀

  36. @ Elfarren, that’s a good insight, but then I’m not sure that the rest of the Uchiha’s would agree with Itachi’s solution to the problem either! Killing all of the clan makes sure those plans disappear and creates the possibility of a whole new legacy for the Uchiha’s through Sasuke… or at least that was the idea

    Danzo would have to be unbelievably crafty to single handedly convince Itachi to kill his entire clan, I think Itachi couldn’t accept that order unless it came from Hokage and the rest of the higher-ups! But that’s just my feelings and we don’t know enough about Danzo yet to know just what he is capable of, he would have had a lot of access to Itachi through ANBU.

    There is an obvious motive for danzo too… If he’s gonna be sneaking around behind the scenes planning his own revolution then getting rid of the entire police force is obviously a huge advantage!

  37. i believe the order did come from the hokage eventually… in the manga it says that the third tried to make a truce with the Uchihas, but it failed. It doesnt directly say that the third ordered the assassination of the Uchiha clan, but he probably would have had to after negotiating with the Uchihas failed. its all in manga #400 or somewhere in that neighborhood

  38. It would be disappointing to think that Itachi didn’t have the backbone to find another way around whatever caused him to kill his clan tho, there’s no way Naruto would resort to that! Like Ibiki said he certainly isn’t “good” in a wholesome sense.

  39. @renzy

    Your almost talking about Kantian Ethics. The outcome of an action isn’t as important as the motive for that action. Kant would have said that if the action was engaged out of a sense of duty or a sense of “doing what ought to be done” it was moral.

    Kant once asked and answered, “Do we live in an enlightened age?” His answer, “No, but we do live in an age of enlightenment.” Hmmm.

    That was over 200 hundred years ago, can’t say the answer has changed.

  40. @Reflex, not to bring that up as tho you meant he was obviously, just saying I agree with her (and your) point! I got carried away calling him good earlier, brushing over his mass slaughter just a little bit..

  41. @ droptheweights – but then again.. he’s not as “patient” as naruto…. Itachi just wants to get things over with while naruto tries figure ways around things… plus Itachi probably didnt have much time to think of another way.. negotiating had failed, and from the way things sounded, the Uchiha’s were on the verge of making their move, meaning Itachi had to act quick

    PS. I KNOW IM GETTING ANNOYING WITH THESE COMMENTS… IM GONNA BACK OFF AND LET THE OTHER PEOPLE ARGUE FROM NOW ON… I’M JUST EXTREMELY BORED RIGHT NOW… I KNOW I SHOULDN’T BE ARGUING MY OWN POST 😛

  42. yeah… like i said several times… the only reason i used the word “good” was because there are no better words to use really

  43. If I’d made a good post I’m sure I’d want to know what other ppl were thinking and saying about it! You gave birth to this thing, no doubt you’re interested in how it grows!

  44. not to mention im BORED AS HELL!!!! lol

  45. Ok, so the idea that Madara was the one who made Itachi ill could hold some major ground here, I think I can piece together a few things, bear with me.

    Madara said that Itachi was the only one who realised he was still alive and came to meet him and made an offer (400/09) to allow him to get revenge on Uchiha as long as he didn’t touch the village.

    This seems like bull****, cus i doubt Itachi wanted either at that point and would probably have tried to stop Madara. Maybe in this meeting (fight?) Madara managed to possess/control Itachi somehow and could then make him do what he wanted, which would explain why Itachi started acting so strange (222/10-18). He got pissed off when the Uchiha’s investigating him just backed off and called the clan pathetic and forgetting what was important to it. Seems a bit drastic for such a young member of the clan doesn’t it? and then there’s “don’t judge others by their appearances” (222/11).

    The main thing here tho is the fact that when Sasuke shouts at him to stop, Itachi breaks out of it (“flinch”) and immediately apologises for what he said. Then in 224/15 in the middle of the slaughter as he is about to kill Sasuke all the memories that he sees means he can again break the jutsu Madara has on him and he manages to save Sasuke’s life.

    Then, in telling Sasuke to get strong enough to beat him, Itachi is hoping that Sasuke can surpass him and avenge the clan by becoming strong enough to beat Madara. In 440/11 Madara says how Itachi carried out his mission except for one “mistake”, he couldn’t kill Sasuke. This was Madara’s mistake and it became hugely important to get Sasuke on his side.

    This control over Itachi is probably what made him ill as he would have had to fight against it constantly and Madara would want to kill him off before the secret got out!

  46. so it was all about Madara getting revenge for being shunned and the shame he felt for the state of his once great clan rather than anything to do with a coup by the current generation or Itachi testing his capabilities!

    So maybe Itachi was wholesome good after all!

  47. I don’t think EVERY Uchiha wanted to riot.

    But I think Itachi didn’t have the enough power to take on all those who wanted to riot, so he ended up asking Madara for help. But with Madara’s help came a sacrifice… the ENTIRE clan instead of just those who wants to riot. Itachi was probably forced into a corner because time was running out.

    Or maybe Itachi knew Madara was going to kill off the whole clan at some point anyways. That meant even Sasuke and Itachi wouldn’t survive. But he knew if he asked Madara to join him in the killing, then he would have some control over Sasuke’s fate.

    I also think Itachi’s illness was Madara’s doing. It was probably part of the agreement he made with Madara. It was Madara’s way of making sure no Uchiha(not even Itachi) would survive after the extermination of the Uchiha clan. Itachi knew this, so he let Sasuke live(without Madara knowing) as a last hope to keep the Uchiha lineage going.

  48. I think that no Uchiha’s wanted to riot, or any that did might have been left alive in the slaughter. It was Madara who wanted them to claim back their pride, and that’s why he got so pissed when they went around acting like the Senju’s little police dogs in http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/222/11/. It’s Madara within Itachi’s body that is coming through, and because Sasuke meant so much to Itachi, he was the only one who could make him break the jutsu.

  49. Well, all we know from CURRENT facts is that Itachi killed off his entire clan (with the exception of Sasuke) of his own free will. All of your theories about Itachi being controlled are extrememly interesting but they haven’t been proven but only…well….theorized. Itachi killing off his entire clan means not only women and children but BABIES and I don’t want to go into any details about how he may have gone about doing it people. Yeah, I know some people put that in the back of their heads but I’m bringing it into the wind. Now someone please justify that.

  50. @supertrek89

    The current “facts” are based on Madera’s story to Sasuke, Sasuke’s recollection of the massacre (including the vision Itachi forced into Sasuke’s mind through Tsukuyomi), and what Sasuke was told by the village/Itachi. We’ve already seen those “facts” change dramatically once, is it a stretch to see them change again?

    Does the Village actually know what happened that night? Is Madera’s story true? Will Sasuke remember more details that change the context? Remember, we didn’t actually see Itachi kill anyone. Sasuke found Itachi standing over the bodies of their parents. Although Itachi claimed responsibility, we know he hid many things from Sasuke. Is his admission just another smoke screen to protect Sasuke and/or the village?

    If Itachi Killed the entire Clan of his own volition, including women and children, there is no justification. Itachi would have to be considered a monster. However, based on the current direction of his story, I don’t think kishi will scribe Itachi as a psychopath. Itachi won’t end up being a Saint, but he probably won’t be a monster either.

  51. @jdb you make a really good point. could have done everything? maybe the third knew madara was coming, then he sent itachi as a guardian for the clan rather than a destroyer. so many possibilities, things could change so dramatically.

    why would madara want to help itachi kill the uchiha?
    – the shunned him.

    well he wanted an uchiha rebellion against konoha, why would he destroy his clan when they were doing exactly what madara wanted them to do?

  52. Exactly renzy, thats why I think the Uchiha were peaceful as I said, and Madara couldn’t take them being so subservient so he had to take them out! Itachi somehow became Madara’s pawn in this plan, and I really think he was being controlled somehow which explains his big mood swings around 222/11-17. He probably changed after his meeting with Madara, cus it was soon after he joined up with ANBU that he changed and that would be around the time of the meeting.

    Having been unable to defeat Madara himself, Itachi’s only option was to save Sasuke and make him determined to be stronger than he was so he could kill Madara, which is why Itachi’s only concerns about Sasuke in their encounters were that he didn’t despise him enough, and that without Mangekyou he wouldn’t stand a chance against Madara. That’s why he ended up giving him his powers in the fight, and why he set the Amaterasu trap for Sasuke if he saw Madara!

  53. @jdb44- Perhaps you’re right and Itachi didn’t kill anyone and Madera is lying about everything. You make a good point about everything we know about the “facts” come from Madera’s story and slips of conversation from other villagers. Itachi did implant images itno Sasuke’s head during the night of the maasacre also. PLUS we did see Itachi crying that night meaning he was regretting something! All I’m saying though is until proven otherwise without a doubt of uncertainty Itachi is in my book a BABY KILLER!!!

  54. Hey, I don’t care why he did it. The fact is, he did it. There is no reason that can justify that to me. There is no “good” reason, no “justifiable” reason to off all of your kin. OK, all but one, and the reasons why not that one are almost all calculating, pragmatic and cold. So he cried while he did it. He’s still a monster. Maybe even more of a monster, because if it’s tearing you up and you do it anyway…WTF is wrong with you?!

  55. Itachi was a true shinobi. No mater how you look at it. 🙂

  56. @renzy, Supertrek, droptheweights & Ibiki:

    I Just re-read the Itachi/Sasuke archs. It almost seems as though Madera could have put Itachi under some kind of genjutsu, but the bond Itachi had for Sasuke was strong enough to break the genjutsu. In the following:

    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/223/17/ (go through to 223/19)

    Sasuke says “I don’t believe he’s the same brother as before.” Then Itachi gives Sasuke the old forehead poke, and Sasuke says, “Yes, It was just like the old Itachi.”

    Then, as Droptheweights pointed out in an earlier comment in:

    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/222/17/

    Itachi “flinched” as if coming out of genjutsu when Sasuke shouted, “Stop, Brother.”

    Finally at the point in the Uchiha massacre where Sasuke was about to find his parents:

    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/224/12/

    Sasuke is outside the door and shouts, “Father!Mother!” Then from inside the room comes a plea, “Sasuke… Don’t come in…” Sasuke enters the room to find Itachi standing over his parents’ dead bodies.

    The rest may have been Itachi hatching a plan, on the fly, to protect his little brother from Madera. Or….?

  57. @ Ibi – what if you are Tom Cruise and you have a chance to kill Hitler and all his top officers in his bunker all at the same time… Would you go Itachi on your own people then?

    @ anyone who thinks there is a chance that Itachi didn’t do it – Itachi for sure offed his mom and dad at the least and I’m positive he did the rest of the village in a similar manner. He was doing it to prevent a war, by starting a war before one side realized it. But isn’t that what a good nin does?

  58. @Ibiki

    I’m arguing that it’s not necessarily “fact” that Itachi killed his entire clan. Just like Jeremiah says about someone dying in a manga; they aren’t dead ’til you see them dead and buried. So far, if you go back and look at the details, Kishi never shows Itachi killing any Uchiha. Kishi has left plenty of holes in the story to allow for a more heroic Itachi to emerge.

  59. Well, I think most agree that there is no “justifcation” for his actions, for the greater good or not. I want to hear what ReFlex has to say about this subject. “Where are you Reflex come back, you CAN dabate your own post dammit!”

    *sigh* gotta get to class!

  60. @ Ibiki, Check out http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/222/17/ and the bits before. Itachi seems unlike himself and is spouting things that Madara would say about how pathetic the clan has become etc which seems a bit strange for someone so young who hasn’t been around to see it fall. But when Sasuke tells Itachi to stop he flinches and suddenly drops to his knees apologising for all the things he said.

    I think it’s Madara channelling himself through Itachi somehow (maybe how Sasori sent Kabuto to spy on Oro, and there was that sand jounin who was controlled in the attack on Gaara), but cus Itachi loves his brother more than anyone he is able to break the jutsu, which allows him to protect Sasuke from being killed on the night. Itachi realisng he can’t beat Madara then makes it his mission to make Sasuke even stronger so that he can kill Madara etc etc as I’ve said

  61. OH NO, not another Nazi debate/comparison, crap gotta get to class or I’ll be late again. Curse you iareawesomeness for not being a required curriculum!!!

  62. @jdb44, Finally, someone on the same page as me!! ^_^

  63. @Jeremiah

    Clause Von Stauffenberg tried to assassinate Hitler and his advisors in one of their military bunkers. He didn’t set up a picnic and invite their wives, children, parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles….. and then blow up the entire block. There’s a difference between cutting off the head of a snake and burning down the forest that it calls home.

    If you look at the above comments, there are sufficient holes in the story to allow for a different “take” on the truth. Yes, even Itachi standing over his dead parents, may have an alternative explanation.

  64. It def all fits, cus Itachi is seen on top of a pole as Sasuke comes home from training, and upon seeing Sasuke the Genjutsu probably breaks again. This would explain why Itachi is seen back with his parents. He realises what he has done and goes back to them and doesn’t want Sasuke to see but has no option other than to go along with it as tho it was just to test his ability!

  65. @jeremiah he didnt necesarily kill his parents, hes standing over their dead bodies, maybe he just got there before sasuke…. we never actually see him kill them, he puts that image in sasukes head, but was it real or not? nobody knows, maybe none of the story is real, maybe its all a lie. what if the kyuubi is good and konoha is evil haha joke 😛

  66. @ jdb44 – yeah, Tom Cruise. And he tried to cut off the head because it was the most feasible plan of action that would produce the greatest effect with a single small action. I say burn the whole forest and go Itachi on the whole SS clan to avoid someone stepping in and taking up the head spot again.

  67. He had to activate the MS somehow, so he killed at least one poor bastard close to him at somepoint in the manga.

    We need an Itachi gaiden showing the story of him killing his best friend and then the events of the Uchiha masscre.

  68. @Jeremiah, Itachi Gaiden = Awesome idea! Although I have a feeling the truth about Itachi is gonna have to be revealed in a big emotional speach to Sasuke during some fight! Not sure who is left who would know the truth about Itachi in order to break it to Sasuke tho, but there’s a thought, there must be someone left who knows the truth and can tell him!?

    Hmm, maybe Danzo? or the elders…

  69. @ droptheweights – fixed the posting prob.

  70. or maybe Zetsu? We don’t know too much about him, and he’s always watching everything! how long has he been around with Madara…

  71. There are several Gaidens I’d like to see. We should have a post about that…

  72. @ dropthe
    tsunade might know. she was around the villiage and would have been in good standing with the 3rd. possibly if it the elders are forced to share the truth or die something like that could happen

  73. I can see a future post topic ^_^
    But yeah true. Its nice exploring characters pasts. I always liked Zabuza.
    Hey now that i think about it, didnt we already have a survey about a Gaiden ages back? Im sure i said something about a Gaiden which should include the 7 mist swordsmen attacking the Misukage. And Why was Madara so relaxed with Kisame, when Kisame, Zabuza etc may have tried to assassinate him? Maybe Madara now controls Kisame like he did the Kyubi (or a Sasori-Kabuto type control) and put him teamed with Itachi? Well if Zabuza and Kisame + 5 others like them failed to take out the Misukage (and its not shocking now knowing who he was) Madara must be very powerful.
    No wonder Kisame was obedient towards Itachi….
    Unless he’s just a *nice guy* (shark hybrid)

  74. @Jeremiah: If there is a chance at male on male action, I’m sure Tom Cruise would do just about anything…@.@ And my “people” are lucky enough to be breathing as it is after other people brought small pox and measles and sh#t to the continent…and if that wasn’t enough we were hunted down and shot according to federal policy. Would I have kill my own to have prevented that? No. Because only hindsight is 20/20.

    So I wouldn’t kill my own on a chance…and that’s the key here…a chance that something that hasn’t happened yet might be diverted. See, in hindsight we know war was avoided. Maybe. Maybe it hadn’t been brewing so much afterall. Maybe the people responsible had their throats slit by Itachi and Madara, but we know Itachi helped. Sasuke admits it was too much bloodshed for one person, even a complete basass, to have done alone. We also know he unlocked the mangekyo sharingan.

    @jdb and droptheweights: you raise a great point about genjutsu, but acting under someone else’s control means you didn’t make the choice. This, in my opinion, is Itachi’s only chance to redeem himself in my eyes. And still, a hero, would have thrown off the genjutsu in time to save more than the one Madara wanted to save anyway.

  75. Long live Itachi! See Code Geass for reference.

  76. lol

  77. hey jeremiah… check your email if you havent… i got a great new idea for a post and i want you to check it out

  78. I can’t believe no one is really discussing my theory….maybe my mind is a little more out there then some.

  79. @Ibiki, are you sure Madara wanted to save Sasuke? At the time he was pretty insignificant and wasn’t at Itachi’s level when he was that age. It’s only since he survived he became noticed. It might be because of Sasuke’s the progress since then, and the chance of him surpassing Itachi and becoming a threat to Madara that made him take notice and want to use him, or get him on his side.

  80. An itachi gaiden looks bleak to me, i mean, he’s one of those characters who are well loved because they were mysterious and sisnister….so prob in a flashback but not in a gaiden(not that the character doesnt deserve a gaiden to his name…)

  81. Great post Dylan. I think the power Itachi gave Naruto was to protect Konoha from Sasuke in the event that Madara got to him( which he did). I believe the purpose behind Itachi laying that amaterasu trap was to protect Sasuke/Konoha from Madara. Unfortunately it failed, so Itachi had a back up plan called “Naruto”. Itachi knew that if Madara got to Sasuke, Sasuke would probably try to get at Konoha.

    @renzy- wasn’t Itachi’s father using him to get at konoha?

    I remember the father was using Itachi as a double agent to attack konoha. That is why he spent so much time with him, working him hard to get into the black ops so he would have a guy on the inside. The father had come to believe that the uchiha clan were just dogs to konoha. They wanted better status or something. The only problem was that Itachi loved Konoha too much to do anything against them. I think Itachi told the hokage of their intent and worked as a double agent for both sides. Danzo and the elders wanted the clan wiped out. The 3rd Hokage was against it until last minute when the Uchihas were going to strike. Itachi was given a choice of either killing the clan and becoming a wanted ninja( to make it look like it was him and not the 3rd’s/elders orders) or helping his clan attack konoha. Itachi decided to protect konoha. He spared his bros life because he loved him or have him one day take out madara? He threatened the elders not to hurt sasuke or he would come after him. When Itachi came “after” naruto he came to town to remind the elders on their promise to hurt sasuke.

    @ibi- I think it was justifiable. Itachi chose the village over a clan. Less casualties. Sometimes you need to do what you gotta do. These choices are made daily by governments/leaders all over the world. You sacrafice 5 people(may god be with them) or save thousands. Sometimes you have to chose the side with the lesser evil.

    Oh I know my writing is horrible. I’m more of a reader than a writer. Thank you for your time and this was my two cents.

  82. An itachi gaiden would be sweet. Also a Kakashi gaiden part 2 and Tsunade gaiden for when she dies(really hope not). Why tsunade? I think it would be nice to know more about her after the whole boyfriend/brother dying. Heck maybe even a Pein one showing us how the kid became the monster he is now.

  83. Pein Gaiden FTW!!!

    that would be really cool,
    it would be like a fanfic about voldemort that i once read,
    it was “The Broken Victory”

    www. fanfiction.net /s/505654/1/ (remove spaces)

    i recommend it EXTREMELY!!! Left me with a completely different perspective of him.
    Don’t believe me? Just read it!
    read it!read it!read it!read it!read it!

  84. @Mandi: I’ve often thought the same thing about Danzo, I don’t know if Koharu and the other one were involved or just ‘said to be involved’.

    @droptheweights: I’m sure Madara wanted Sasuke preserved. In taking in Itachi and saving Sasuke he effectively had a cross between Darwin’s survival of the fittest and ‘an Heir and a Spare’ in regard to those touchy sharingan eyes. He of all the Uchiha understood that from before the whole thing began. Sasuke being saved was a savvy political move, and Itachi was partly chosen because of Sasuke’s existence.

  85. Pein Gaiden FTW!!!
    that would be really cool,
    it would be like a fanfic about voldemort that i once read,
    it was “The Broken Victory”
    www . fanfiction.net /s/505654/1/ (remove spaces)
    i recommend it EXTREMELY!!! Left me with a completely different perspective of him.
    Don’t believe me? Just read it!
    read it!read it!read it!read it!read it!

  86. Sadly, wherever there are pack animals there will be the power struggles amongst the alphas & between the omegas. Madara is just the first ape to use a stick to root out the termites he wants to eat (see cognitive development of primates). It is only a matter of time before another hungry ape follows in suit. Madara (though we have no evidence) simply used a tool, Itachi, to get at the power he craves. The only thing that I don’t get is why Madara (if he was there) didn’t harvest the eyes. That would have been like a lifetime supply of eyeballs. Don’t get me wrong, I am glad that he didn’t. Jeez, Sasuke would never stop crying his little androgynous emo eyes out about that, if he had.

  87. @Ero: I think he did, he just didn’t tell Sasuke. He’s got them for safe keeping in a jar he keeps under his pillow.

    OK, to go even further conspiracy theorist…what if Minato knocked up Kushina simply because the main Uchiha clan had this promising boy child (Itachi) with another boy heir on the way? Sasuke was born July 23 and Naruto was born Oct 10. I think Madara released the fox once Sasuke was born, because the heir and the spare thing, with Itachi being so promising, meant he could finally make his move. But Yondaime had seen the possiblity and gotten his groove on…

  88. Prolific self-defense? Procreation Jutsu? “Sage Tech Shooting Gift!!!”

  89. @ ms mandi – I don’t think anyone is talking about it because we already consider it fact. I didn’t think that was even a hot topic. Danzo and the elders ordered the Uchiha massacre, the third opposed it. Isn’t that the story in the manga?

    Sasuke is going to destroy them for it and that’s what fuels the common enemy theory for Sasuke and Naruto once Danzo makes a play for power in Konoha.

  90. @Jeremiah: I think she was saying it was only Danzo, that the others weren’t really involved.

    Prolific self-defense. lol. (I’m not touching that sage tech… ^.^) And see, that’s the difference between a hero and a weasel. A hero finds a productive way to solve the problem. (Goes off humming ‘How do you solve a problem like Madara…’

  91. Fuck-my-wife-coz-uchiha-fucked-his-jutsu???
    that would mean Minato knew how to mix his work and personal life for maximum output and min input…

  92. @jeremiah- yeah he opposed it but was pressured into giving the order. He saw no other way against the rebellion.

  93. @ Ibi – kill him and everyone associated with him.

    If that’s what she is saying then it’s off. She points out in her link that there was a discussion. The third opposed Danzo and the elders sided with him.

  94. @Jeremiah, that’s Madara’s story in the manga, but kishi leaves a hint
    that it may have just been Danzo’s doing behind the hokage’s and elders back, although as I’ve said earlier, for Danzo to do this alone would mean he can convince a guy to kill his clan without it having come from the hokage as well! I can’t see Itachi being that foolish. But Danzo would have had a lot of access to Itachi thru ANBU, still though, I think this may just be kishi teasing us and diverting us from questioning the larger details of the story.

  95. @Jeremiah

    Lol, Sieg Heil, Itachi. Gotta admit when you make an argument, you don’t back away from it. “I say burn the whole [damn] forest.” You would have fit right in with Sherman during his “March to the Sea.” His scorched earth policy created bitterness that lasted for generations. It probably won the war, but it made “winning” the peace dramatically more difficult. 🙂

    As for activating Mangekyou Sharingan, did Kakashi kill Obito? No, he watched him die. Could something other than Itachi actually murdering Shisui have happened, it’s plausible.

    An Itachi Gaiden would be an excellent diversion during the the time skip.

    @Ibiki- That’s the point. “And still, a hero, would have thrown off the genjutsu in time to save more than the one Madara wanted to save anyway.”…You don’t give your heroes any breaks. Conspiracy theory duly noted.

    @captnmexico- What you say about our current understanding of the Itachi saga is true. However, it is based mostly on.. see the many comments above… so our argument is that the current story is based on lies, misdirection, and the memory (probably faulty) of a young boy during a traumatizing event. Kishi’s left himself enough wiggle room to do a 180 on virtually all of the Itachi storyline.

    @EroSennin- Was there a hidden nod to the Third Hokage somewhere in that comment? As for the eyeballs, we ought to ask Harshy to insert a set of disembodied eyes into his rendering of Jeremiah’s card game. That picture (even when it was just a picture in my mind) still makes me laugh.

  96. @ captnmexico21, in 403/05 Itachi tells Naruto that he just “talks about pipe dreams, there are times when a ninja has to make painful choices” which implies it may have been a conscious decision after all as you say. I guess I’m not sure what happened with Itachi and the massacre at this point, but I can’t wait to find out!

  97. @captnmexico madara said itachi was a spy for his father, he was a double agent for konoha, he was feeding information to the third but, it is also coming from madara, so it may not be necesarily true

  98. None of this may necessarily be true, maybe from the start Naruto has been living in a Genjutsu world and he will eventually ‘wake up’ and it was all a dream… He is actually just the kid in the pilot manga who has a really lame demon fox incarnation! Jeez that pilot is lame

  99. Naruto is trapped in the matrix!!

  100. @ Ms. Mandi, you can help me claim glory when Danzo and Madara are revealed to be one in the same.

  101. I submit to the forum that Itachi was in fact the baddest Uchiha to live. He could have and would have been the strongest had it not been for his sickness. A sickness that could have been planted by Madara. I think it’s akward that Madara never acted on the village simply because Itachi was alive. And Itachi never took out Madara because he’s supposedly the #1 Uchiha.
    I’m not one to go back a site all kinds of referances but I have a pretty good memory of these things.
    Did Itachi make the statement that Sasuke was the only one that could surpass him? And how would he know? because he was the one who trained with him in his off time and the only one who paid him any attetion. Now giving him reason to surpass him was another thing. For some reason that has not been “truely” revealed to us yet. He murdered his family and so there was no one else to comfort him he took out the clan. Then he gives Sasuke the fuel to get stronger through hatred and come seek him out one day.
    When Sasuke finally meets him for the last time Sasuke asks who helped him kill the clan that night. Because he knows he couldn’t do it on his own. The answer is Madara who Sasuke said he would kill too. For now I believe Sasuke is waiting to develop and lern his new powers. If going against Itachi taught him anything it’s that you must be fully prepared and fully capable of taking out your opponent before you rush into battle. Especially if your opponent is Madara.
    That battle will come one day but as powerful as he is he also has a huge weakness that hasn’t been revealed. You can’t gain immortality without sacrificing something. In the end Orochimaru was weak because he needed to change bodies every 3 years. That lead to his Demise/Absorption/Sealed.
    Not sure there is a clear point to this post but these are the things that popped into my head after reading the post.
    Itachi was the strongest and saw the potential in Sasuke to become stronger than himself and ultimatly take down what he thought was the village’s greatest threat.

  102. @erich I don’t think Danzo is Madara…but I do think he was the reason for the decimation of the uchiha clan

  103. @ Ms. Mandi Fine I’ll take all the glory for myself.
    Next time they show Madara check his shoes. HHe’s gonna have frog guts on them!

  104. @Erich22

    It seems that there is so much that hasn’t been revealed about the Itachi/Sasuke/Madera trifecta, the storyline could go in any number of directions. Even the facts that we do know are suspect since the sources are so unreliable; eg. Madera- has motive to lie about Itachi. Itachi- had motive to lie to Sasuke. 3rd Hokage- had motive to lie about the massacre…..

    It’s almost certain that when Kishi reveals all the truths, they will be much different from what we know today.

  105. #jdb44
    I think all will be revealed when Sasuke and Naruto meet. I think the power Naruto got from Itachi will be a powerful genjutsu that will show Sasuke exactly what happened. It may be that Madar killed the clan and Itachi was the only one who could stand against him, but since he gt caught red handed he went along with the missing nin thing so he could be a double spy. Wouldn’t it be great if Itachi was the one who gave Jiraya all his inf on Aktsuki?

  106. lol.. thats possible. but right now we just have to wait to see what kishi shows us next.. oh and the jiraiya thing.. that would be pretty cool (i actually though that myself at one point but didnt put it in because i had no evidence)

  107. =) awesome, erich. I don’t buy the Danzo = Madara thing, but the thought of it is thrilling enough I WANNA believe.

    The Uchiha massacre is such dirty laundry, I don’t think anyone’s telling the full truth about it. I do think the Third was more involved than has been revealed…just like I think he was more involved in Oro’s eugenics experiments than has been shown.

  108. @erich22

    I kind of like the ring to that.

  109. @ Ibiki
    I always thought of the 3rd as the nice grandpa that gave you candy. Unless you try to break in his house then he takes off his bath robe to reveal his black ninja outfit. And preforms a crazy demon soul stealing jutsu on you.

  110. Erich 22
    ROTF LMAO

  111. @ erich … i think thats my grandpa your talking about 😛

  112. Thank god you put some armor under that bathrobe…I was about to have…images. Very, very unwanted images…

    Candy? I dunno. But I do wonder if he wasn’t the type to make you dig is out of his pocket if no one else was around. (I’m not accusing him of pedophelia, just trying to say I think he had some uncool stuff going on).

  113. @Ibi- The third involved in Oro’s experiments? The 3rd hokage has to be the one of the most goody-two-shoes in Konoha. He loved the village more then his own life so I don’t see him using any of the villager’s bodies for experiemnts. Remember that Oro used kidnapped people from Konoha to test on before he got chased out by the 3rd himself. And I think Orochimaru might have mentioned something about the 3rd’s ivolvement to Naruto or the 3rd himslef during their fight, at least just to mess with his mind. Also, the 3rd was the only one who opposed the idea of the massacre. The only reason why it happened is because his vote was vetoed (yes vetoed) by Danzo and the elders.

    I do agree with you on the dirty laundry bit though. Anybody who knows the truth could just be twisting it for their own purposes. NOTHING has been 100% confirmed except that there was a massacre and the two prime suspects are Itachi and Madara. They both were there, but who did the killing, well since I’m just going off of what has been told so far and what I can piece together they both threw in their fair amount of killing thus making them BOTH baby killers. (Alright I gotta stop saying that) ><

    @Jeremiah- Itachi gaiden would be swell, but can I get an AMEN for a Minato/Kushina gaiden. I mean jeez, it would confirm so much about Naruto’s lineage like whether or not he’s a Senju and plus I just wanna see Minato kick some ninja A$$ with his Yellow Flash technique! Besides, we hardly know anything about his mother besides her birthplace and she got along wit the boys well. Paleeze!

    @Erich- If I see even a hint of goo on Madara’s sandals I’m jumping on the Danzo/Madara band wagon! 0_0

  114. OK…I guess I have to go dig up the links. I’m not saying the 3rd was involved in the Oro’s work, just that he knew about it far too long, and didn’t really do much about it on either of the raids shown in the manga (and yes, there were two…which means he knew about it, made an ineffective fuss and then went back again later because Jiraiya found out and demanded action). Factually, that tells me he was involved somewhere, somehow. Nah, I’m too busy for links tonight…one flash is during the 3rd’s big battle with Oro and the other is by Jiraiya…somewhere around the time of his death.

  115. Ok, I’ll do some research…zzzz….wait….what’s happeing to me….zzzzzzzzz…AWWW S**t the zzzz’s are attacking! Losing power! Bed looks mighty tempting right now like a lost lover after a long voyage out at sea.

    *Smacks himslef*

    Falls asleep anyway.

  116. @ ibiki.. yeah. i think i know what your are talking about. i dont think the third was actually a part of the experiments but i do agree that he knew about them to some extent (how can you not??) then again with all the recent info coming out about characters i thought i knew, you never can be too sure i guess.

  117. Some of the logic that you guys posted does not make sense.
    If the Uchicha wanted to have Coup de tat, and Hokage (and whoever else knew about it) then why would trust a fellow Uchicha (Itachi) to get the job done & to get the job done by him alone? No WAY that will ever happen.

    There is without doubt that the Uchicha were not planning a Coup de tat (are they so weak that they could be wiped out in a night by a 1 or 2 people without anyone else realising?)

    That part is LIE and that is certain. The Clan was wiped out for Danzou’s agenda (to become Hokage). There is no way the Uchicha would allow Danzou to become Hokage. If Danzou was to become Hokage he would have to wipe them out – that part is certain.

    So then..

  118. I’ve been curious about the Third’s true intentions myself for awhile.

  119. Hiruzen Sarutobi’s intentions was to die after using the reap seal. 🙂

  120. Actually I’ve just realized something from reading all these theories.

    Its not Itachi that was under Madara’s spell… it was the Uchiha clan!!!

    Itachi was the only one who noticed Madara’s presence, which means he’d be the only one who was able to defend himself against Madara. Everyone else weren’t up to his level, so they were subconsciously controlled by one of Madara’s jutsus.

    Remember, Madara’s the one who hates “being a dog” to Konoha, the Uchiha clan would never think of it that way.

    I believe Itachi had to kill his friend(if Itachi even killed him) because Itachi’s friend was under Madara’s control. Why would Madara control Itachi’s friend? One reason might be to get Itachi to kill his own friend so that Itachi’s MS will come out, so that later on Madara will be able to steal it.

    If Itachi DID kill the clan, it was probably because they were under Madara’s control and he had no choice. Why was Sasuke NOT under Madara’s control? Simple, remember how Itachi always taps Sasuke’s forehead? Yup, all those time Itachi was actually giving Sasuke a barrier jutsu against Madara.

    How is Madara able to control an entire clan? Simple, they’re all linked through the Sharingan. Note how the Sharingan is just an eye technique that utilizes the Kyuubi’s chakra.

    ——————————————————————————–

    Madara probably was the one who released the Kyuubi on Konoha in an attempt to weaken Konoha. Minato probably knew to an extent about Madara’s plans. How do you take power away from a clan that utilizes the Kyuubi(claimed to be the most powerful being in the Naruto world)? You seal the Kyuubi into your own baby that is capable of handling it.

    When your child(Naruto) grows up, he’ll eventually learn a jutsu(THAT jutsu) to control the Kyuubi. With enough training, Naruto will probably be able to render the Sharingan useless. All he needs to do is stop the connection between the Sharingan and the Kyuubi. It should be even simpler now that he has Sage mode and can detect anyone’s chakra.

    Naruto will be able to detect when Sasuke or Madara wants to access Sharingan(which in turn accesses the Kyuubi’s chakra). When he senses it, he just needs to take control of the Kyuubi’s chakra and make sure it doesn’t lend itself out.

    Anyways, if the Kyuubi’s chakra can make the Sharingan so powerful… just imagine if Naruto learns how to fully manipulate it. Remember the Kimimaro arc? Neji told Naruto that Naruto has better eyes than Neji. Why is that? Because of the Kyuubi!

    If Naruto channels the Kyuubis chakra to his eyes correctly, he’ll be able to perform Sharingan abilities! I also think the powers Itachi gave Naruto will open up that path. Anyways, Naruto’s “Sharingan” will be the ULTIMATE Sharingan because he’ll have full control over it(if he learns THAT jutsu). In fact, it might be so superior to the Sharingan that it will have its own name… Rasengan!!!

    Get it? Rasengan, Sharingan, Byakugan, Rinnegan. 😄

    The Kyuubi opens up a lot of possibilities for Naruto. Not only that, he has his own bloodline limits that hasn’t been revealed yet.

    Anyways, I’m getting off topic. But yea, to sum it all up, Itachi killed his clan because they were under Madara’s control. ^_^

  121. @Admins: Can you guys split my post into two posts to make it easier for people to read? The first half of my post is directly related to Itachi while the second half is more about the Kyuubi/Sharingan relation.

    If you guys CAN split my post up, then I suggest you split the post at the part that reads “Madara probably was the one who released the Kyuubi on Konoha…”

  122. @rockleex

    Well thought out theory. It sure plugs several of the holes in many of our theories above. The most ingenious part was how you tied Itachi’s forehead tap into Sasuke’s immunity to the genjutsu. Well done.

  123. @jdb: Thanks. It just dawned on me while reading the theories. ^_^

    All the theories just had major holes.

    Why kill an entire clan? Why would the clan all of a sudden want to revolt when they have always thought of themselves as part of Konoha? Why would Madara help(or take control of) Itachi to kill the clan if the clan finally sees things from Madara’s perspectives?

    It all just didn’t make sense.

  124. @rocklee, I’m sorry to say, but I think your theory has far more holes than any of the above! For starters, if the whole clan were under Madara’s control there’s no way he would have had them continue walking around doing there little police duties, and there’s no evidence that their behaviour had become strange, even to Sasuke, who according to your theory, was protected. Itachi’s behaviour became strange which is why he seemed under control of someone else. Also, it seems rediculous that Madara would have been able to control an entire clan, especially if he’d never met any of them! Much easier to control one powerful one. And also if Itachi became aware of his clan being under control of Madara, why not just get the whole village invoved in the huntfor Madara and dealing with the problem.

    I the only link between the forehead taps was a sentimental way to pass on his powers that would remind Sasuke of when he got on with his bro, like in the past when Sasuke thought he was being weird but then when he poked him, he realised he was still his old self.

    Sorry to let rip a bit…

  125. My theory is Captain planet using the Potara’s with Might Guy. For the ultimate Dynamic ENTRY !!!!!!!!!

  126. @droptheweights

    Actually, my theory suggests that Madara has subtle subconscious control over the clan. Which explains why they don’t suddenly start acting strange. They just, over time, start to resent how Konoha treats them.

    The effect is so subtle that there would have been no possible way to find this out if Itachi had not felt Madara’s presence.

    Itachi’s behavior might have become strange because he didn’t(at the time) know that Madara was behind all this. So he thought the clan was just slowly becoming more radical and incompetent. But of course, Madara sticks out like a sore thumb to Itachi so it wouldn’t take long for Itachi to realize who’s really behind all this.

    It would be easy to control an entire clan because Madara IS the most powerful Uchiha that ever lived. Sharingan is also notorious for their hypnotizing abilities. Not only that, all Uchiha’s are linked through one thing… the Kyuubi. Remember, Jiraiya and a couple others think that the Kyuubi was released by Madara. If Madara had some control of the Kyuubi, he’d definitely have enough control over the outsourcing of the Kyuubi’s chakra to the Uchiha.

    Sharingan is not like Byakugan. With Byakugan, each user truly uses their own source of chakra. But with Sharingan, they are merely being lent power from the Kyuubi.

    Anyways, it would be a LOT easier to control many weak Uchihas rather than one powerful Uchiha. The powerful Uchiha would have enough experience and knowledge to sense when someone’s trying to manipulate them without their own knowledge. Just the fact that Itachi was the ONLY person that could sense Madara’s presence is enough to prove that it would be easier to control everyone else rather than Itachi.

    How can Itachi get the whole clan to hunt for Madara when they don’t even know of his existence? They don’t even know they are being controlled, and they would just say Itachi’s crazy if Itachi told them they were being controlled by some uber powerful Uchiha that had been alive ever since the First Hokage’s era… and he also wears a swirly mask. Lol.

  127. @droptheweights

    Rockleeex’s theory has merit. It does fill in holes, not that there could be other explanaions. Itachi’s behavior could be explained by his knowledge that everyone else was in a genjutsu. The forehead tap is what Itachi used to give Sasuke Amaterasu, so why couldn’t he use it to break genjutsu. That does beg the question, why not break the genjutsu for more than just Sasuke? Madera could control Kyuubi, the strongest bijou, why not a clan?

    Until we get Kishi’s story, there will probably be holes in every theory.

  128. @ rockleex Did I miss something? Where does it say that the Sharringan gets it’s powers from the Kyubi? I know it is said to be able to control the Kyubi once you’ve reached MS. But I don’t recall the drawing chakra/ power from the Kyubi. Can you fill me in?

  129. Yeah, I think I’m a little lost there, too. This is a lot for me to believe, partly because of the complexity. Usually the simplest explanation is right, not always, just usually. So although this is possible, I’m a skeptic. Seems like the hard way to stage a coup.

    Also, wouldn’t the clan have always had a ‘tude about Konoha since the days when Madara and Shodaime were on each other’s pecs?

  130. @Rockleex

    Can’t help you on the “Drawing power from Kyuubi” theory. As for the genjutsu, it’s as plausible as any of the theories. Take a page from Jeremiah’s book (“Burn the whole forest down”) :-), no need to call it a “subtle” jutsu, it was full blown mind control.

    @Ibiki – Occam’s razor doesn’t play in Naruworld. Coup d’etat’s aren’t supposed to be easy; if they were, we’d all be making a grab for power.

    Didn’t everyone in the Uchiha clan go against Madera when he originally wanted to stage a Coup. If memory serves, most of the clan was happy being a part of the Leaf Village. What’s changed?

  131. @jdb: lol. But does that mean is has to be Rube Goldberg invention?

  132. Madara was seeking personal revenge..hence why the clan didnt follow him.

    I dont think the sharigan draws power from the Kyuubi. Otherwise Madara would have directly gone after Naruto a long time ago – when he was baby.

    When Madara was chatting to Sasuke he claims the Kyubbi was a natural disaster. But prior to that when Sasuke was closing in one Naruto – the kyubbi mentioned that his eyes were similar to those of Madara. So clearing the Kyuubi was under the influence of Madara – Sasuke knew this, hence Madara lied.

  133. @bumpuss – we already know madara controlled the kyuubi when he faught the first, he could have been referring to then.

  134. @rocklee, firstly, apologies if my post sounded rude, I wrote it in a rush before I went out and just wanted to get my points out quickly.

    Back to your theory tho, like Ibiki and erich said, I’m not sure where the link between the Sharingan’s is mentioned, or the fact that their power comes from the Kyuubi, only that their power can control that of the Kyuubi. If you could post a link for it that’d be cool…

    About controlling the whole clan, sure individually each one would be easier to gain control of, but why try getting to each and every one? Just get the baddest mutha out there, and if Madara is the most powerful Uchiha ever, then that shouldn’t be too much of a problem. You’d need to back up the method you suggested for how he could control the whole clan before I could believe it really. Plus it would be a huge effort having to control the actions of about 30 or so (?) people!

    Also I didn’t say that Itachi should get his clan to hunt for Madara, I said the rest of the village.

    @jdb, It’s only Madara’s story that the Uchiha’s wanted a coup, so that’s not even certain yet, and all the signs from the manga were that they were fairly happy in their police role. But if the coup is true then I guess it would back up some sort of influence over the clan.

  135. @bumpuss, it would be easy for Sasuke to doubt Madara because he knows he could have controlled the Kyuubi, so I like to think he does see thru it and is just using Akatsuki like he says in the fight against the 8 tails.

  136. @Ibiki –

    Touche’! Rotf lmao. Where can I order one of his Automatic napkin doohickey thingys?

  137. In other words I like your point!

  138. @rocklee, I do like your idea as a way of Itachi finding out Madara was still alive, however unless you can back up the rest of the theory more, then there’s probably another explanation. I would like to know how Itachi have found out Madara was still around tho!

  139. @droptheweights-
    I won’t argue with your points, but the genjutsu theory just seems to have better symmetry (excepting the whole Madera being able to draw Kyuubi’s chakra), in my view. It gets Itachi out of Ibiki’s dog house. It provides a better explanation of how the entire clan is wiped out. It adds another layer of significance to Itachi’s forehead tap. It provides a way for Itachi to acquire Mangekyou withot mindlessly murdering his best friend. Aaand, if the coup plot is true, it gives a plausible reason why the “happy” Uchiha’s became traitorous. In the end, Itachi turns out to be GOOD, no quotation marks. 🙂 (That was for you Dylan.)

  140. @jdb and rocklee, I have to say, it does appeal as a theory, but I’d just like to see it foreshadowed in the manga more.. When I made my points about Itachi being controlled it came from linking events in the manga by comparing the story of Madara with the original Itachi back story, such as the ‘flinch’ and the spouting off about a clan he has only ever shown respect for and doing it in a way that Madara would (this story comes from Sasuke’s memory, he’s not telling it to anyone, hence there is no need to have lies in there, just things that may have been forgotten), then there’s also the way he behaves in the other encounters, but I’m not gonna go thru my theory again, cus it was 5 am and I was in super crackhead mode, all I’ll say is I didn’t create a theory by talking about powers people might have, cus that way you could create any explanation you wanted!

    But like I say, it’s not that I don’t like the idea of the theory, I just would like to see it backed up in the manga more!

  141. @jdb44- Hmmm…that’s a mighty bold statment you got there to say Itachi is GOOD without any quotaion marks :). If the genjutsu theory does prove to be true it does give him REASON to kill his whole clan because of them being in some kind of subtle mind control by Madara. But if he could give the power just by tapping Sasuke on the forehead to break the jutsu then how could he himself be under contrrol at any time? He couldn’t have been so resultantly all of Itachi’s actions were his own. Now bringing to front the coup if it was true and they were being influenced does that still give Itachi GOOD reason to kill his clan and remember these are his own actions. I mean if you were at a family reuion and you knew for awhile that they planned to overthrow the local government or something like that you get my point. Would you murder them all in their sleep knowing it wasn’t really their fault along with the help of the person mind controling them? That includes aunts, uncles, grandparents, cousins, brothers, sisters, mom, dad, and longtime friends. It all doensn’t add up to me. If anything he would go around tapping every villager on the forehead until someone got fed up and smacked him in the face! lol, sorry please explain. 0_0

  142. like i said before, i think madara killed everyone. there was no coup, hes lying, itachi was there to protect everyone from madara but was too late, he joined akatsuki to keep an eye on him, he was never seen killing anyone! sasuke wasnt in the village when it all happened, itachi knew that sasuke had a bright future and he was the only one who could kill madara and exact revenge for the clan. he fed him lies in order for him to have a reason to kill itachi and unlock his ms, now that sasuke is losing his sight he will get ems and kill madara. then everything will become clear to him.

  143. @supertrek, you partly confusing my theory with rocklee and jdb. I said that Itachi was being controlled by Madara and thats why he ended up killing his clan and this is all backed up in my post way up top, I cba to repeat it. Rocklee thinks that instead of that it is the rest of the clan that was under Madara’s control, so Itachi had to take them all out. I think there are plenty of hole’s in that theory, despite just the tap thing. But maybe check out mine…?

  144. It was Feb 2nd 10:53, if you wanna check it.

  145. @droptheweights- I was kinda trying to touch on all of the theories in one post and that’s my fault. I can’t prove your theory wrong and I can see where the examples of him possibly being mind controlled are but it just seems to easy for me. I think Kishi would make the plot more complex then a simple ‘Itachi was being mind controled so he’s innocent’ kind of thing.

  146. It wasn’t easy coming up with that theory when it hadn’t been suggested already tho, even if it seems obvious now! It’s probably just cus it fits so well into the story that it seems too easy now.

    It’s safe to assume that Madara’s story about Itachi knowing he was alive and meeting him at some point is true because after the slaughter Itachi ran off and joined up with him (poss cus he had nowhere else to go). So this means there would have been a clear chance for Madara to get to him with some funky mind control shizzle. It’s also likely that Madara would seek out Itachi for his power (was he ANBU at 14 or smthn? crazy).

  147. keep friends close and enemies closer ^_^

  148. Well, we’ll see it’s getting late and I’m going to bed. Peace!

  149. @Supertrek89

    Who says Itachi killed the entire clan? With the entire clan being in a genjutsu, Madera could have killed them all or had them kill each other, or… With just Itachi under genjutsu its more of a stretch for the entire clan to be killed, one-by-one, fathers and mothers fighting tooth and nail to save their children. It just makes more sense that the clan would be under genjutsu, then Madera could have done the dirty fairly easily. His goals were 1. Vengence against his clan 2. Weaken Konoha 3. Get Itachi with Mangekyou (and maybe Sasuke) out of Konoha. Ostensibly all of this to to further his end game, Destroy Konoha).

    The whole point of this post is to decide whether Itachi was “good” or not. If Itachi, as I noted earlier, by his own volition(under duress or not), killed his entire clan, he’s a monster. However, if we find that he did not, then we can say that he sacrificed his entire life and died in the service of protecting Konoha. That would deserve a good, no quotation marks necessary. 🙂

  150. well in any twist of the imagination, he is working to protect konoha, he goes against his clan not the village. and personally i dont think itachi was under control of madara, working with him to prevent more damage is also a possibility, really if you look at akatsuki as a whole there are some messed up views of peace, itachi/pain

  151. @jdb, It is funny how implausible it is for Itachi to take out his entire clan alone or with Madara’s help without waking up everyone in the village! We’ve seen how out of hand these fights can get, especially if parents were protecting children. They may have to brush over that a little… unless it’s explained as some immediate silent killing of all of them, although tho bodies are strewn in the streets which suggests not!

    When Madara tells Sasuke that Itachi was given the mission by the Elders and Danzo to wipe out the clan, Sasuke doesn’t seem to question they would have thought him capable of it, but that’s a mad order for one person. I’m just picking all the holes I can here, but that whole “on orders” thing definitely stinks.

    @renzy, yeh, I could see Itachi being convinced it was the only way to prevent war somehow. But still I want a decent explanation for his big mood swings in 222/11-17, he’s really menacing then suddenly falls to his knees and asks forgiveness… hmmm. I guess it might explain why he sees the clan as pathetic cus they are spoiling for a fight that could cause all out war, but still, it’s a strange turn.

    I’ll try to make this the last time I try to shove my theory down your throats, but perhaps the coldness of Itachi’s eyes is because he’s not completely there… weak I know, but I still think there’s plenty of other things!

  152. @renzy, do you believe the Uchiha’s wanted a coup then? That’s what I assumed..

  153. I just assumed you did I mean. I don’t think they did tho.

  154. lol droptheweights has the last 5 posts on the recent comments sections… i gotta stop him 😀

  155. @everybody

    My purpose wasn’t to prove or defend the theory that the entire clan was under Madara’s control. It was just some food for thought that popped up in my head while reading droptheweight’s posts about Itachi being controlled by Madara, and I just wanted to share it with you guys. This is why I don’t have all the evidence ready beforehand to prove my point, because the theory was just food for thought.

    To be honest, I find my theory AND droptheweight’s theory equally unbelievable. The major hole with droptheweight’s theory is that Itachi can sense Madara’s presence, therefore he would be able to defend himself against Madara. And my theory covered some holes in other people’s theories, but also created NEW holes too.

    Anyways, I went back to re-read the Sasuke-Itachi fights and yup, I was wrong about Sharingan’s power coming from the Kyuubi. I had misread it back then and it just stayed with me the whole time.

  156. @jdb44- Looking at this slide in Sasuke’s memory http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/146/08/ so it can’t be a lie. Itachi basically admits what he did and quite coldly at that. I never said Itachi killed the entire clan I always believed he had help from Madara. So it doesn’t make since that Itachi would go and ask help from Madara to kill people he already has genjutsu over. Hence, no genjutsu. Now, I can’t prove your theory wrong and I can’t prove mine right beacuse the stories can all be lies. Itachi is dead so we can’t hear from the story from the horse’s mouth so to say. Madara was the only other person there that night, as far was we know, and he said Itachi was there and he helped in the killing. Again though it could be all lies. I’m just going off what is put in front of us in the manga.

    @droptheweights- Itachi and Madara are two of the strongest Uchia’s in the world. Hell, two of the stronest shinobi. Remember Madara was on par with the first Hokage and Itachi was a freaking genius. Ninjas are masters at sneaking and killing. I would find it would be no trouble for them to kill people silently in their sleep beacuse of these facts.

  157. @rocklee, much love dude, I see we share a common favourite character (hence droptheweights)!

    Just to say tho, if Itachi did just sense Madara’s presence rather than deduce he must still be alive because of the Kyuubi being released etc then what’s to say he could defend himself against the most powerful Uchiha there ever was? I like your faith in Itachi tho, it’s not nice to think he was just a sick little finger puppet for Madass.

    @Ix ReFleX xI, lol I did feel like some sort of posting plague last night, once again it was getting towards 5am and super crackhead chakra was seeping out!

  158. @supertrek, I accept that if they killed them off in their sleep that would all be fine and they may well have been capable of that BUT that’s why I went back and looked at the scene, the bodies are all strewn in the streets, so unless the Uchiha’s were all bums sleeping rough then some sort of big fight occurred!

  159. @ droptheweights… i know what you mean i get like that at nights too

  160. @droptheweights:

    Lol, I never noticed your name was referring to Rock Lee.

    The main reason why the theory that Madara is controlling Itachi doesn’t make much sense is because if he was capable of controlling Itachi like a puppet, then why doesn’t he just control Sasuke in the same way?

    Look at how he’s handling Sasuke right now. Sure, he wants to manipulate Sasuke. But he does it through providing select information to impose a certain idea or belief into Sasuke, instead of just using Genjutsu to make sure Sasuke does what he wants.

    There’s just really no benefit for Madara to be controlling people. He’s one of the most powerful shinobi’s that ever lived. I think he’s too confident in his own abilities and he would most likely think its a weak thing to do to use Genjutsu to forcefully control people to do his bidding.

    Also, I think each Uchiha specializes in certain abilities. Itachi was mainly a genjutsu user, Madara seems to be the ultimate space/dimension user, and we’re not really sure what Sasuke’s unique abilities are yet. By that same note, I think it would fit more that Itachi was the one using Genjutsu to control people rather than Madara being the one. Even then, Itachi has only used his Genjutsus to create a false past reality for Sasuke and no one else.

    Your theory does make sense, and its also a very original theory. But in the end, it just doesn’t fit Madara’s character to do such a thing in my opinion.

  161. @ droptheweights – the first time I saw it I thought it was an awesomeness Rock Lee reference but wasn’t 100% sure that’s what it was. I thought there may be an outside chance that it was a Raikage reference since the first time they showed him he was lifting bar bells, which I thought was lol funny. Very cool.

  162. @droptheweights- We all know the Uchiha are notorious for their sleepwlaking out in the middle of the street!……LMAO (dammit couldn’t hold it in) 🙂 But seriuosly, the people killed in the streets could’ve been weak villagers of the clan. Just because you live in a shinobi village deosn’t make you automaticly leet. Madara and Itachi probably went after the strongest shinobi in the village while they were sleeping while the weaker ones were left for last giving them the oppurtunity to wake up and run out into the middle of the street before they were slain (that’s the smartest and most tactful thing to do).

  163. @ jeremiah … check your mail

  164. @ ReFlex – I did. I want to read the new manga before answering that question, and I’ll probably answer it in the weekly breakdown ^_^

  165. @ Jeremiah and Rocklee, this name is like my super get serious phrase when used with furrowed fuzzy brows and serious thumbs up pose, it’s got me through so many all nighter essays when I’m about to get pwned by it, but then I just drop the weights and go all out! It was either going to be that or ‘I wanna rocks’, which just takes me right back to when I first started getting into the awesomeness of Naruto! Hopefully no one will steal that name before my friend gets round to joining up cus I think he wants it…

    The Raikage does look so badass in that scene, like a hiphop version of Gai with all his emotional outbursts and extreme training!

    @supertrek, that strategy definitely could work, it’s a shame none of them managed to raise a stink before they copped it tho! and sleepwalkers, lol

    @rocklee, I think I’m so determined to for Itachi to be a blameless victim in all this that I’m blind to the idea he might have been so cold after all! I’ve never seen him kill anyone in the manga (other than himself, lol) and can’t even remember hearing of him killing other than the slaughters and his friend who I include in that. So I’m still holding out hope for the dude! I think he was hiding his favourite teddy under that Akatsuki cloak of his..

  166. Also, if my essay was going really badly I’d just down a load of Saki and release some crazy ideas that were completely unorthodox and by the time I woke up it would be handed in somehow!

  167. @droptheweights:

    Don’t worry, I believe Itachi is innocent too. ^_^ I just don’t think making him a puppet is the best way to make him innocent.

  168. i dont think he’s innocent of killing his family… i just think that he did what he did for the best possible reason

  169. @reflex

    I stand by the phrase “innocent until proven guilty”. ^_^

    So far, no one has seen Itachi kill ANYBODY.

    But if it turns out that Itachi DID kill someone, I’m sure he did it for the greater good. *nice guy thumps up pose*

  170. of course…he killed himself didn’t he?

  171. Wait didn’t Sasugay see the entire massacre in its entirety through MS?

    or was it for some other reason

    see that part just doesn’t make sense to me

  172. He didn’t kill himself, he let Sasuke kill him. So it actually means Sasuke’s the evil one, the one who commits crimes/murders!! 😀

    I don’t remember Sasuke seeing anything of the massacre, only the aftermath.

  173. itachi makes him watch it for 3 days when he goes to the hotel to capture naruto, then j man uses the partial toad mouth summon in the halls. thats when he first shows sausgay the massecre

  174. no….he SAW itachi doing clean…urgh unclean work of their parents….

  175. @harshy he saw itachi standing over his parents, he didnt actually see him kill them. itachi planted that vision in his head, it could have been fake.

  176. @renzy: that’s what i ‘lways thought…
    maybe he didn’t want sasuGAY to fight madara (<< the real killer…after all, madara WAS helping itachi wipe out the clan…and madara didn’t kill anyone?? not possible!!!)

    in fact, we saw itachi rest over the top pole (….both eyes were shown to shine…so it wasn’t madara…) so, what was itachi doing there? resting? maybe he was ordered by madara to wait there…so, he wasn’t making any move…
    key point:itachi was under madara’s influence….madara was the one that killed the clan (and that’s why he said “i lied to sasuGAY and he’s finally ready to join the cause”)

  177. hey guys…ok i’ve seen all your posts…and to be honest, some have been way brilliant, and some…….just a little isolated for an approval. But, one thing is clear from all the posts. Itachi is bloody good.

    First, i’ll tell you what. Itachi was no doubt asked to destroy the clan by danzou and the elders, but it never mearnt itachi was danzou’s puppet or something. Itachi, being as strong as he is, could have easily revolted or sided with the uchiha at the very least if he was convinced wiping out the uchiha wasn’t the right thing to do. The important, indispensable factor is itachi had a choice and, as the ninja he was, came up with his choice of eliminating the uchiha for the greater good. It’s more like spartan discipline, which a complete shinobi should have at all times. Itachi demonstrated that easily, and should his ability to conceal his emotions while carrying out his mission.

    Secondly, itachi knew he really couldn’t finish off the clan, and knowing the consequences of carrying out his mission(becoming an expelled nin), decided to seek madara to finish the quest. Knowing madara was enraged with the clan already and wanted revenge on the clan, he reached a pact with madara, one that would aid him in destroying the clan leaving konoha out of the massacre. Now it’s safe to say madara was the real mastermind behind the carnage, and because madara had to honour his contract with itachi, could not sweep in on konoha. That’s why madara breathed a sigh of relief after itachi’s death that he could now move in on konoha.

    The thing is itachi knew the extent of madara’s treachery, and hence as a result joined akatsuki in full effect with the aim of doing what he does best(spying on madara). In akatsuki, itachi hence became a double agent. Itachi, being a dedicated uchina and also a konoha nin, knew madara wasn’t to be trusted, and so bequeathed sasuke with his powers that he would be strong enough to face madara, and hence kill off the threat to konoha and the uchiha. Itachi also realising things could backfire if madara got to sasuke first, also bequeathed naruto with some of his powers with the intention of drawing back sasuke to the right path should he stray. That was such an intelligent plan, and these decision making abilities made itachi one hell of a shinobi.

    So yeah, itachi was one hell of a GOOD bloke.

    And one more thing…..i saw this one arguement about the connectivity between the kyuubi’s powers and the sharingan. I think that was by one rocklee bloke. Gotta say, that theory really got me thinking, and made me understand how important naruto is to sasuke. The fact that the kyuubi told sasuke that he would totally regret it if he killed naruto(in one part of the naruto shippuden anime) prove the connection between the kyuubi’s chakra and the sharingan. What i’m yet to understand though is how the kyuubi’s chakra connected to naruto’s eyes could provide a more powerful doujutsu. I’ll have to research that one thoroughly.

    Jana.

    Totalitarianhypnosis(festus)

  178. well, to a huge extent, itachi begged that the third hide the truth from sasugay, so it’s only fair that itachi, being the kinda of ninja he is, would be able to manipulate the visions he shows sasuGAY using tsukoyomi, the God of illusions.

  179. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/404/17/

    nowhere in there does madara say he lied, he only says he has won over sasuke. zetsu even says that its the truth, why would madara see any reason to lie to zetsu? i dont think madara lied.

  180. @totalitarian:

    Yea, I was pretty amazed at the connection between Naruto/Kyuubi and Sasuke/Sharingan. But turns out I was wrong that Sharingan utilized the Kyuubi’s power.

    There is still a pretty strong connection between Naruto and Sasuke though. The scene you mention of the Kyuubi talking to Sasuke was also very important.

    About the Kyuubi eye technique. I think it might be possible. Just look back at the Kimimaro arc. Neji told Naruto to go ahead while Neji takes care of the Sound nin because, according to Neji, Naruto has BETTER EYES than him.

    But that could mean a lot of things. It could simply be a figure of speech, saying that Naruto can see things more clearly than he can, because Naruto’s eyes aren’t clouded by his mind.

    Or it could mean that he notices Naruto has a bloodline limit similar to Sharingan/Byakugan/Rinnegan. Maybe its the bloodline limit Kishi was talking about in an interview?

    Or it could mean he knows that the fox chakra running through Naruto’s eyes give him some sort of power he isn’t aware of yet.

    Another argument to support my theory is that when Naruto enters Sage mode, his eyes change, allowing him to sense everyone’s chakra. When someone activates Byakugan/Rinnegan/Sharingan, their eyes change, giving them more abilities. When Naruto grows a tail, his eyes ALSO change. Maybe he has yet to notice the effects that the nine tails has on his eyes?

  181. @rockleex: There is no concrete evidence supporting Itachi not massacreing the village. In fact all the evidence innthe manga points to Itachi with the help of Madara killing the villagers. Itachi has admmited it himslef on several occasiions and if you go back over the post again I’m sure you’ll find several links with him pleading guilty. People say well we never SAW Itachi kill anyone. Well we also never SAW Madara kill anyone. In fact we never even saw Madara there. But guess who we did see there…yep, you guessed it Itachi. So who’s to say Madara was even there or had anything to even do with the massacre. He could be lying. Of course I don’t even beleive that. The point is whether or not we saw Itahci actually doing the murders all of his actions, his admmitance, and his blantant wish to die points not only to his sickness but his feeling of guilty over something BIG. And that something was his part in massacring his whole village.

    @totalitarian: Whether or not ‘it’ was for the greater good or not he still massacred his entire village. You reap what you sow brother.

  182. @supertrek:

    There have been many people who have plead guilty to crimes they have never committed. Of course, he would plea guilty to the crimes if it helped him become a missing-nin which would qualify him to join Akatsuki(as a spy). Just because a person says so, doesn’t make it so.

    Anyways, what if Sasuke massacred the whole clan? And Itachi, the loving brother that he is, wiped out Sasuke’s memories and took the blame in order to give Sasuke a clean slate? 😀

    Ahaha, just kidding about that last part.

  183. @rockleex: Sasuke did WHAT? Oh jk jk, heh. 🙂 I see your point but I don’t see any reason for him to be lying even after his death and infiltration of Akatsuki.

  184. @supertrek:

    Well, Madara said Itachi does not want Sasuke to ever find out the truth. And I think Madara made up ANOTHER lie on top of Itachi’s lie(that he massacred the clan).

    The cake is a lie… a MAJOR lie. >_<

  185. @rockleex: Here I’ll give you the link that renzy10 provided above http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/404/17/. Zetsu says, “Itachi probably thought the truth would never get out.” So what does that mean? Simple, the truth got out. What was the truth? Everything Madara just finished telling Sasuke a few chapters back. Madara then proceeds to say, “Regardless of whether he thought the truth would get out, he probably feared I would get Sasuke on my side.” Madara is wholeheartedly telling the truth why would he be lying to Zetsu his number one aid trusted even more than Pein. In fact Zetsu knew Tobi was Madara from the beginning and was always in on everything. So it’s safe to assume Madara isn’t lying here. The one that was lying and hiding the truth was Itachi. Not the truth about him being involved in the massacre but Madara’s involvement, because he knew if Sasuke knew about Madara he would go after him and dire consequences would happen. We see that now as Madara has finally met Sasuke and Madara has manipulated Sasuke to joining his side even though Sasuke believes he is in fact a free agent. Madara really has Sasuke wrapped around his little pinky right now.

  186. Hope for Sasuke:
    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/411/05/
    and
    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/414/16/ plus page 17 comment going up the side

    I don’t think he’s sucked in to Madara’s lies yet, not sure of his exact plans tho, but I don’t think what he said to Madara about destroying the whole of Konoha is true! The elders is fairly likely tho, obvious opportunity for more truth to come out about Itachi in the meeting/fight/aftermath.

    The Itachi Madara relationship is even more of a mystery, but the spy thing would fit with Jiraiya’s ability to get info about Akatsuki as said before. I’m not sure of anything about Itachi right now, just a few very good scenarios out there at the mo! It probably won’t be a clear cut good and bad tho, he was too conflicted a character for that, a tragic unavoidable choice is more likely, methinks!

  187. Ahah, I guess I was wrong all along… 😦

    I guess I’ll just go have some tea… but what sort of tea? 😄

  188. @rockleex: Just not the chamoomile tea! 😄 And don’t be so depressed you’ll turn into Sasuke, lol. Besides there’s always the chance for redemption in Kishi’s mind so we never know how it all ends up.

    @droptheweights: I think even though Sasuke plans on betraying Akatsuki. Madara already knows all of this and has planned ahead or even plans for him to betray Akatsuki. Madara always is one step ahead of his enemies and even his own allies. The only one that was holding him back was Itachi and now that he’s dead, which was apart of Madara’s plan http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/395/16/, his plan is now in full swing.

  189. @supertrek:

    But Madara has forgotten about one thing… the Swayze! 😀

    On a more serious note, Madara doesn’t know that Itachi gave Naruto some of his powers as a failsafe. MUUUAHAHAHAHAHAH!!! *insert evil face*

    PS: How do I do an evil face?

  190. I’m a little confused here! I think Kishi thought up this second panel I’m about to show you just at the last minute to make Itachi seem like more of a good guy and have us shed some waterworks. Either that or Sasuke’s gone crazy and imagining stuff. Here is the first panel, Itachi doing the ‘pokey thing’ right after the battle with Sasuke and this is in real time not a memory http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/393/14-15/. Here is the second panel, http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/402/12-13/ when the hell did that happen? I sure don’t remember anything like that. In fact in the first panel at that time Itachi didn’t say a word or smile! SUSPICIOUS! Kishi you got a lot of explaining to do! *glares at Kishi*

  191. Yeah, supertrek that threw me too when I read it the first time. There are only three possibilities: the flashback is true and details were skipped to concentrate on the battle during the first forehead flick; the flashback image was planted in Sasuke’s head by Madara with genjutsu; the flashback was distorted by Sasuke after the fact so he could think of his beloved brother as a good guy. Which one? I think we have to wait and see, but it’s a good find.

  192. @Supertrek:

    It never happened, Sasuke was just imagining the smile on Itachi’s face.

    Itachi wanted Sasuke to think that Itachi was evil through and through. Therefore Itachi wouldn’t smile during that last moment.

    Sasuke was just reminiscing about Itachi’s smile because that’s what Itachi did everytime Itachi touched his forehead(except for that very last time).

    The touch on the forehead is basically another way for Itachi to tell Sasuke that he’s smiling. ^_^

  193. He didn’t only smile in the memory but he talked too. Seems like it REALLY happened to me. I guess we’ll jst have to wait and see like Ibiki said.

  194. I don’t think its an illusion. Itachi was smiling and he did leave Sasuke with Amaterasu. There would be no reason to do any of that if he were a bad guy. The scene were Itachi would have said those word cuts off and we see him leaning onto the wall afterward. The quote took place between those two parts. In addition both Tobi and Zetsu confirm that the truth about Itachi did get out. The only difference in Tobi’s word and Itachi’s situation is the debate over the nine tail fox. Itachi believes Mandara released it on the village 16 years ago, while Tobi claims it was a natural disaster.

    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/404/17/

  195. hey kyouto, where’s “kyouto”, you’ve gone full ass “kanji” on us again
    😉

  196. Moment of weakness, wanting a short name but also for people to know me. I am thinking of changing Uzumaki into Kanji.

  197. kk…gotcha!

  198. sry im new,how can i subscribe to your blog?

  199. Make yourself a user id (which you did), upload an icon (instructions are here). Once you are logged in to wordpress, click the “blog info” pull down on the upper right hand corner of the screen (in your dashboard) and select “subscribe”. Welcome. ;P

  200. I got an idea 😮
    What if there is no truth behind Itachi.
    We know snake fangs logic is flawed.
    So there is no “truths of this world”?

  201. Itachi is a GOOD guy!!!!!!!!!!!

    there shouldn’t be any doubt about it!

    He is also my Fave Character…=)

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