Wilting Flower, Shrinking Violet – First Cherry Blooms Late

Against Sky of a Spring Storm “The cherry is first among flowers, as the warrior is first among men.”
                                                                                                   -Japanese proverb

This is Mollie (IbikiTeishi) cracking open a little dialogue about Kishimoto-san’s female characters.  Before I get right to my focus (Haruno Sakura, if you couldn’t guess), I have to preface my remarks with some general disclaimers.   Commence lecture introduction…

nuture1

Disclaimer #1:  Kishi freely admits that he has trouble writing female characters.  In fact, in Volume 3 of the North American manga release he says the following about Sakura:  Let’s face it…she’s not really that cute, is she?  Especially back then!  But that was mostly because I’m not that good with female characters in general…There’s a lot more to being a good female manga character than cuteness, you know…

Perhaps he loves his mommy/gramma/aunties too much, and doesn’t want to put women in harms way enough to be awesome.  Part of learning to write is learning to be callous to your characters (causing pain) so they can rise above it and be awesome.

His treatment of female characters almost seems like protection–in a sense he pulls punches on them, so they never get to face and conquer the really bad stuff.  It makes them look weak, but I think its Kishi’s psyche (a word that here means his mind and soul, the very essence that is Kishi-ness) that’s getting in their way.

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Disclaimer #2:  He has improved over the last decade, and grown his female characters, but in the end Naruto is a shonen manga and aimed at beasts of the male persuasion.  Therefore, regardless of how awesome the female characters are, we should naturally assume the the hero is a guy and that the primary focus is on guy things.

Ten Ten watches Lee train...

Ten Ten watches Lee train...

Disclaimer #3:  We should also assume that, although the series is character driven, relationships only appear to the extent that they alter the behavior of the character.  And let’s face it, gals tend to be motivated by and dwell on relationship things a good bit of the time.  That’s why most of the female fans like to contemplate who is going to kiss who and you guys (the majority of the readers on this site) like to talk about elemental jutsu and balls a lot.  So the female characters, who also tend to think about relationships, look weak for that preoccupation.

 Commence lecture… 

Inner Sakura doesnt need to come around anymore.

Inner Sakura doesn't need to come around much anymore.

Fine.  Even given these facts, does Sakura SUCK?  I will refute the arguments by the haters one by one.  Uh, that means I’ll show you how dumbass they are.  Am I a Sakura lover?  No.  She’s normal in a world of oddball characters, and I like to spend my time figuring out the nutcases.  But people often mistake her normalcy, her humanity, for mediocrity and that’s generally unfair. 

First, let me shed a little light on our cherry blossom.  And that’s the thing about Kishi’s female characters especially, he hides stuff about them–you really have to sit and think to unravel them.  His male characters carry a lot more on the surface, but to understand his female characters you have to look underneath the underneath. 

In other words, it’s easy to call his female characters weakass, stupid and sucky if you have the attention span of a gnat on crack.

You're...annoying.

You're...annoying.

 Ahem.  Let’s start with Haruno.  It’s not one of the great clan names, is it?  Yet, her parents are known to be alive.

Remember how she complains about parents interfering…to Sasuke who wishes he still had parents.  Oops.  So, her parents are alive and yet we never see them in 430 chapters–why?

Der.  Hold the phone.  I can hear Alec saying something, in my head.  Here’s the cleaned up version:  “They are unimportant to a shinobi manga.”

Why? 

They are either so low ranked they don’t even go to funerals OR (gasp!) they aren’t shinobi.
 

Let’s go through the Konoha twelve (the rookie 9 plus team Gai). 

Ino Shika Cho

Ino Shika Cho

 

Ino, Shikamaru and Chouji all descend from nin clans–we know this because their team is the mirror of their parent’s team.

 

 

clans

Hinata and Neji are Hyuugas.  Sasuke is Uchiha. 

Both clans are noted for being

  • large
  • hierarchical and
  • really badass.

This among the many badasses that make up badass Konoha’s ultra badass shinobi-class citizens. 

inuzuka-429-081Kiba descends from the Inuzukas–his mom and sister are proof of that.   And as you can see, he’s a momma’s boy. 

His clan name comes from his mom, but what do you expect from such a tough bitch?

(Tsume, this one’s for you.)

Aburames in da house...

Aburames in da house...

 Shino’s an Aburame pimp, as we’ve seen from his baggy clothing line and family of homies backing him up as he faced Konan a couple issues back.

That bad boy stance went a long way–it’s still stuck in my mind.

Not only that, he’s the chosen one…look how dad defers to his offspring here… 

This leaves our last four:  Rock Lee, Ten Ten (who alone of the twelve has no last name), Naruto and Sakura. 

naruto-430-19

Naruto was raised an orphan, but is known to descend from some serious power (quick, someone say Yondaime).  No, I’m NOT talking about Jiraiya right now, sit down, dumbass before I hit you with a piece of chalk.

Team Gai's Orphans?

Team Gai's Orphans?

 Rock Lee looks to be Maito Gai’s bastard child from a union with a caterpillar, but that’s a theory for another day. 

Again, he has no known ninja in his family tree, and the result is…no ninjutsu.

 Ten Ten also has no last name, perhaps she and Lee were both orphans. 

We just don’t know.

 However, in this last group, notice the one person with a last name and a known, living set of parents is Sakura Haruno.  What does that mean?

If her parents were ninja, I think we would have seen them.  The fact that they are not shown–ever, even at funerals or during invasions–tells us they are likely normal citizens of Konoha.  If so, Sakura had to become completely divorced of her family when she entered the shinobi world–they would no longer understand her nor she them.  (“Where are you going today, dear?” “Oh, off on a mission to assassinate some poor bastard, be back for dinner, mom.”)  That’s hard core, but it’s well hidden underneath.  Perhaps that’s also true of Ten Ten and Lee, but we don’t know because their parents are never alluded to once.

So, it seems likely that Sakura’s parents are not shinobi.  Why should this make any difference?

Think about it.  The bloodline imparts special gifts (shadow manipulation, bugs, byakugan, sharingan, control of huge ass dogs…), if you don’t have those blood talents, what do you have to fall back on?  Ah, taijutsu, chakra control and wits (does this sound like any of the 3 I’ve just mentioned?).

Then there is the teaching that takes place at home.  Think back, Sasuke’s dad teaching baby Sasuke the fire jutsu that is supposed to mark manhood for an Uchiha boy.  Shikamaru learning shadow neck bind from his dad.  Kids in shinobi clans get all the advantages:  blood talents/aptitude from their DNA and extra special coaching at home from mom or dad in their “off hours.”  SO…are you starting to understand the absolute disadvantage Sakura has in this arena when compared with the bulk of the twelve?

knucklehead2

 

No wonder she’s such a limp noodle at first, she’s completely out of her element.  Naruto too in a way, which is why he sometimes used to be a complete retard in the field.  People bash him for that too, but come on.  Tactics and strategy are learned, and a lot of it would come from stories told around the dinner table.  Neither Naruto nor Sakura got to have those shinobi tales of glory days every night.  (Sasuke wasn’t a douche but a saint for putting up with their ignorance of stuff he likely learned before he could talk.) 

Let me tell you about the power of youth...

Let me tell you about the power of youth...

Lee and Ten Ten are both on Maito Gai’s team, and had been seasoned a year before the chuunin exam arc.  I’m reasonably certain Gai talked a lot in that year to get them up to speed–mainly because, well, he’s Gai and he talks about how to be…a lot.

Sakura and Naruto were miles behind Sasuke when they formed a team.  Naruto was driven, though, and with a little bit of mentorship started to pull himself together.  Sakura found her drive through her teammates (it’s a girl thing), so her motivation grew slowly.  She cries because that is essential to her character:  she can’t follow shinobi rule number 27 and FEELS for her teammates.  The old shinobi world would call her flawed.  The shinobi world Naruto is building will call her an example of how to live correctly. 

Before time skip we have Sakura progressing very little.  She starts to feel protective enough of the boys during the chuunin exam that she wakes up a little bit and actually DOES something.  As she changes her outward behavior, inner Sakura doesn’t have to come around as much.  Still, Sakura is the weakest link until Tsunade shows her how to be. 

A lot of that training isn’t in the manga, but enough is shown in the anime to establish that Tsunade didn’t coddle her (see video clip of her training from Shippuuden ep 24 above), taught her how to face an attack without closing her eyes and made her want to die on a daily basis.  For the first time in her life Sakura had a mentor who knew what to do with her–how to teach her without condescending to her because she didn’t have a penis.  pfft. 

Good for Kishi for picking up on that.  There aren’t many guys who understand that about being a female with potential in a male society, but its something I started realizing in 6th grade. I got the second highest score on a math test (93) that pretty much everyone else failed (the boy above me got a 94).  The boy stood next to me as he got his paper back and was told–‘you’re really good at math, you should consider being an engineer.’  I was given my paper back without comment.  Yeah, well, you do the math.

sakura-dismissed-19-04

(If you think Kakashi knew how to mentor a girl, in any way shape or form, or that he wasn’t a sexist in how he chose to handle her–I’d sure like to hear your case.  Best case, he looks clueless; worst case, he looks like a chauvinistic bastard.  Oh, take some time off, hun, you know how to climb trees better than the boys…puh-leeze, that’s the most patronizing bit of condescention…)

Personally, I look at Sakura’s home life and background and think:  wow, look how awesome she is to have PASSED as a genin the first time, to have survived the chuunin exam and to have become an incredible apprentice to a legendary sannin.  A clanless noob is hanging with heirs of the elite clans and holding her own?  She’s incredible for getting this far and has actually been incredibly fast coming around given her disadvantages.

Plus, she ain’t done baking yet.  Kishi himself has talked about how she needs to grow up and I think when she does, some of you are gonna be eating that sass I’ve heard spouted in the comments.  Sakura post time skip is about to knock your socks off, boys. 

Sannin Yet to Be

Chapter 4, Page 1: Sannin Yet to Be

Sasori was completely pwned by Sakura.  Yes, she and Chiyo acted as a team, but by the very end, Sakura pulled some moves that left both Chiyo and Sasori surprised.  Sasori was ultimately KILLED by Chiyo, but none of the 12 have been shown actually finishing any of their kills in an even fight (with the exception of Sasuke and Deidara–the Oro and Itachi kills are debatable).  Hidan?  Shikamaru took him out but didn’t directly kill him.  Kakuzu?  Finished by Kakashi.  Laser head?  Only dropped of puppetry, you can’t kill the dead.

Why should Sakura be held to a different scale than Shikamaru and Naruto?

In a recent anime filler arc (Sora goes foxy), she DID kill a villain (Fuen) outright–with fast thinking, use of trickery and one deadly ass punch–putting her on a has killed/hasn’t killed scale equal to Sasuke.  Summoning Pain’s centipede felt her wrath and she dropped it like a wii remote smashed against the wall three days after Christmas.  And yet, they still said “that girl” took care of it.  Learn her damn name, citizens of Konoha.

When she grows up, I think you’re going to see her jump to a whole new level, and even the haters will have to admit that she’s worthy of her sannin apprenticeship.  End lecture, commence smarting off…

Some of the arguments against Sakura (found out in the nets):

  • She cries too much. (not a bad thing in the new ninja world; a sign of compassion not weakness)
  • She’s a bitch. (Well, good.  Sometimes somebody needs to be.  Inner Sakura was always a bitch.)
  • She’s ugly. (Kishi admits she isn’t cute, part of his handicap with girl characters who are WORTH something.)
  • She flirts with Sai. (Maybe Sai would think so, but he’s confused about a lot of stuff.)
  • She can’t make up her mind. (Oh, I beg to differ.  Didn’t you see the way she watched shirtless Naruto train?)
  • She didn’t own Sasori, Chiyo did. (Again, who among the 12 has actually killed?  Sasuke and Sakura.)
  • She whines over Sasuke. (Stuck in the chuunin exam arc, huh?  These days only Naruto mentions him.)
  • She’s useless/doesn’t do anything. (Centipede.  Antidotes.  Sasori. Fuen.  Healing.  Yeah, that’s nothing.)
  • She’s annoying. (So is Naruto.  So is Sasuke. Your point?)
  • She’s not as good as Hinata (Well, we have yet to see Hinata in action post time skip.  Perhaps in another post?) 

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~ by 千手 鼾弟子 Ibiki Teishi on January 7, 2009.

122 Responses to “Wilting Flower, Shrinking Violet – First Cherry Blooms Late”

  1. First

  2. First name: Ten
    Last name: Ten

    Seriously is that how you fill out your NAT? (Ninja Aptitude Test)

    lolz

    ^_^

  3. very interesting and fun read lol

  4. Thank god someone took the time to do this. Disregarding a character because they happen to lack penis, if you will, is utter shit. I mean really, if Sakura were to go up against, say, Kiba, who do you think would win?

  5. Great post, since the Sasori fight Sakura has become one of my fav characters. Her name itself is def my fav because i think cherry trees are beautiful. Imo she’s one of the most overlooked/underestimated characters in the series. i’ve always assumed that her parent’s weren’t shinobi. On that note I’ve always wondered about Lee and Ten Ten’s parent’s and how Gai might relate to Lee, i mean there’s no way how close they look that they aren’t some how related lol. Maybe uncle or something lol.

  6. Thanks for finding the Sakura training segment. I could not find it in the manga and did not realize it was a flash back segment from the Sasori fight. I do have one concern, we mentioned that Kishi is going to grow Sakura over the next year. I fear that will be through the death of Tsunade. Sakura may take her Tsunade training and use it as a strong foundation for later growth, but I personally want her to squeeze all the knowledge she can out of Tsunade before she passes on, leaving her little need for another strong female role model.

    The only other person I would like to see her acquire a solid skill set from is Kurenai Yuhi. Sakura has always been able to recognize and release from genjutsu quite well. I would like to see her acquire a talent for genjutsu to complement her brute force style of taijutsu. Yes first and foremost she is a medical ninja, but if Kishi is going to grow her I would recommend he give her genjutsu or a strong affinity for earth style jutsu.

    Correct me if I am wrong, but speaking of the kill list;
    Didn’t Choji kill one of the sound ninja 5 during the Sasuke recovery arc

    Didn’t Neji kill the spider guy from the sound ninja 5 during the same arc

    Team Baki finished off the rest;
    Gaara
    Kankuro
    Temari

    So add two kills for those two guys.

  7. @Ms. Krechet (I assume from your e-mail!) Thanks for speaking up. ^.^

    @orion: I hunted that vid clip down just for you (and it was a bit of a pain in the butt), so thanks for saying something. ^.^ You’re right about Chouji and Neji–REALLY good point–I think. No one was there to confirm the kills and the others had to be killed by back up nin, and Chouji/Neji KO’d themselves as well. Technically, I think you’re right, but neither fight had a clear victor. The Konoha folks were saved by some miraculous medical work. Interested to see how other people weigh in on that.

  8. Also @orion: Sakura’s talent for genjutsu means she needs training in that area, but Tsunade’s been taking all Sakura’s time. I’m hoping she gets Kurenai as well, because she’s going to need that talent developed. Isn’t latent genjutsu kind of dangerous (basing that on an anime filler ep…)? Anko? Another possibility is Koharu. We don’t really know what the old hag’s talents are, she might be a genjutsu specialist as well. Huh. And wouldn’t that just piss Sasuke off?

  9. I think the writing is on the wall for Tsunade. Her chakra is extinguished, her death may be the catalyst for Sakura’s next phase of growth, her side kick may be dead with her soul ripped out, and her other two Sannin friends have recently passed. I think she may be reunited Jiraiya and Orochimaru very soon.

  10. Oro is in Kabuto.

    I just finished reading this and it’s hands down the best defense for Sakura on the Internet by far. She is one of the most abused characters in anime by it’s fans and it’s about time some one represented proper.

  11. For the record, Tsunade is going to get her ticket punched.

  12. Thank you for putting the spotlight on Kakashi and his blase attitude toward training Sakura – I’ve been ranting about the same thing to my bf for ages. LOL The worst part is that even though he recognizes Sakura’s talent for Genjutsu (Tsunade mentions he told her) and his own talent is on the same level as Kurenai’s, he still won’t train with her one-on-one.

    As for people who say she’s not as good as Hinata, I’d disagree for one reason: Sakura believes in herself, whereas Hinata still has trouble breaking out of her shell and hesitates. We have seen Hinata since the timeskip (Chapters 395-396), but she didn’t do much and acted as backup. Sakura is skilled enough for the front lines, as she proves against Sasori, which is another good indicator that she’s surpassed Hinata.

  13. @Jeremiah – Here is a branch off of the Oro / Kabuto comment you made.

    Speaking of which, I wish kabochimaru, Orochibuto, which ever he is, would show up and clue me in on the progression of Orochimaru’s life force either overwhelming Kabuto, being suppressed by Kabuto, or seamlessly melding with him.

    Our first glance of him
    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/356/08/
    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/357/02/

    ##################
    # Foreshadowing #
    ##################

    A promised return on this page;
    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/357/06/

    I foresee him returning after the Leaf Recovery Arc

  14. Awesome post. You definitely did Sakura justice. I feel that everyone’s been hard on her. In my view she is one of the shinobis who has grown the most. And the Chiyo & Sakura VS Sasori fight is one of the best fights to date.

  15. @Jeremiah: thanks. BTW, my NAT? I put a hole in it as a form of protest.

  16. thanx for the shoutout, great post as always…

    it wouldn’t be me if i didn’t bring up a little controversy, Sakura killed that other chick in the fourth movie, making that two kills, while i would say Saskue didn’t even kill Deidara, deidara blew himself up in an effort to kill saskue and so we could all know that he has four tounges (what the fuck one is usually enough but four??? now i really hate his guts and great oral communication).. so the score stands Saskue (heir to the uchihas and vowed killer) 0 legit kills, Naruto (inheriter of the pervy sages techniques amongst other slightly useful attacks like rasengan) 0, Sakura (who everyone thinks is a little bitch, but truly has the most potential for character development) 2… winner sakura….

    But my next problem is that seemingly Kishi only lets his girls kick the asses of other girls: Sasori wasn’t even human and his orientation is slightly questionable, Oro was in the body of a girl when he fought Tsunade… come on Kishi, don’t have the balls to see some guys get dropped kicked in them?

  17. … i agree! sakura still have something we’ve never seen before

  18. WOW!
    i can’t believe you made me change my attitude towards that bubblegum pink haired, uncute, cry baby hag….oh! sry got carried away, you already pwned me in all those sections so hey, it’s kishi’s style man, letim do it his own way!
    Sakura should not be called SUCKura the way sasuGAY is called sasuGAY(it’s his name man, i dont cal jeremiah jerePUNK ir ibiki iBINKy, but sasugay’s name is saugay itself 😉

    @alec- DUDE i completely agree with ya! and One toungue is enough, i hate oro, he belches things up so much! i mean WTF is a legendary sword doing hangin around i yer intestines moron!

    GREAT POST ibi!

  19. wow! no moderation for a smiley! why????

  20. So basically you’re saying: “Sakura isn’t that good compared to others but that’s normal she’s not from a ninja clan. In fact she did great taking this into consideration.”

    True, she sucks and she is useless. Bring me Hinata, she isn’t useless at all 😉

  21. no she’s sayin that she isnt useless at al….read the post more carefully nighthawk

  22. Great post I have to admit and you brought up great points. My only problem is that everyone talks about her beating up Sasori but she wouldn’t have lasted 1 second if it wasn’t for the old lady. I watched that whole fight 2 nights ago randomly and right from beginning to end Sakura was litterally and figuratively Grandmas puppet. She only did one thing on her own and that was to take out the 3rds puppet and even then she had to get her butt kicked to do it.

    Although you brought up all those points most of which I had thought about she is still my least favorite female character in the manga. Tsunade is the best female character hands down. Hinata is fun and all but too shy and no confidence and that gets annoying after the millionth time.

    So in the end Sakura still sucks big time she is not worthless her medical ninjitsu is great and her strengh too but she is a waste of reading/watching time, but hey at least she isn’t as worthless as ten ten I mean what does she ever do? Can she do anything but use scrolls?!?! WTF?

  23. Bravo, Bravo Mollie 🙂
    Thanks for posting such an excellent analysis of Shakura and her relation to the other characters and the story as a whole. Thanks to you I have a new profound level of respect for Shakura and Kishi. Awesome job !!

  24. I like the way you talk!

    I thoroughly enjoyed your breakdown. I agrre that she has overcome some great obsticles to get to where she has. People don’t give her much credit, if at all.

    Again, great job!

  25. nice job ibi (-:

  26. @alec according to gaara deidara is a chick and she fought gaara sasgay and kakashi and naruto at once… haha clearly just being a pain in the ass

  27. just to reaffirm my post above about Tsunade being a gonner. I wanted to reference one of the first questions int the Kishimoto Interview again.

    1. Is Jiraiya dead?
    Kishi : He lives…………………………in your heart.
    Naruto has to be grown up. Shikamaru also needed to be grown up. And Sakura will have to be grown up, too. Lee? Lee doesn’t need to be grown up anymore.

    And to reaffirm that Kikashi will go on to live, Kishimoto’s second answer.
    2. What’s gonna happen next year?
    Kishi : Started with Sasuke vs Itachi battle.
    I’m gonna write about mainly Sasuke next year. And Kakashi and Sakura, after that. Especially Kakashi. I can’t tell yet but a huge event will happen to him.

  28. awsome this is my first time here (and probly my last time commenting) but all of your points make complete scence)i cant spell….. anyway i love this one (*In other words, it’s easy to call his female characters weakass, stupid and sucky if you have the attention span of a gnat on crack.*) when i saw this i cracked up.great comments!!! keep up the good work
    signed naruto uzumaki ramen!

  29. GOD!
    I read the part about Sasuke being the only genin to kill someone. You’re wrong. Neji and Chouji killed Kidomaru and Jirobou respectively. Can no one remember those parts?

  30. great post, Sakura rules for sure, bu I disagree in two things:
    First, I think Sakura looks cute XD!
    And Second, didnt Naruto killed this guy with the OODAMA RASENGAN:
    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/260/10-11/
    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/260/16/
    And so he kiled someone in Shippuden in the Sora fill in
    so that tthe score ends up like this: Sasuke:0 Ssakura:2 and Naruto:2 XD!

  31. Great character insight Ibiki. Although, my biggest complaint about Sakura has been that she (more to say the way Kishi writes her) has to be pushed, no, shoved in improving above average ninja levels. Not that she isn’t destined for greatness, but let us compare her to her former teammates.
    Naruto finds reason to get stronger around every corner: from Sasuke’s departure, from the drive for Hokage, from the drive to impress Sakura, from the drive to protect the village, from the drive of free food (there must be crack in that stuff), from the heightened sense of empathy for those hurting inside (Gaara, Sora, the list goes on). A good deal of those reasons can be filed under the need for recognition, but I digress.

    Sasuke is a broken record: revenge, revenge, revenge, teary eyed damned revenge…Even when it seems like Naruto’s strength is pushing Sasugay forward, it is just the fact that if Naruto is stronger than surely he’ll never get his…..you guessed it, revenge.

    Sakura just doesn’t seem to have the inner drive, personally I hope Naruto ends up with Hinata. Although, I really don’t care for the soft-spoken type (I miss inner Sakura), at least she has being on Neji’s level as a driving force. More importantly she has never rejected Naruto, and was among the first of his peers to see his awesomeness. Sakura, only after not getting the affections of king-emo, did she start to even question her feelings for Naruto. I fart in her general direction (Monty Python reference).

  32. I think that my favorite female Naruto peer, notice that I use peer as an age reference, is Temari. Though she would be robbing the cradle a bit with Naruto, I don’t see him as being threatened by that. She is smart, strong, confident, and as long as your a secure man that’s not intimidated by aggressive vagina (reference to man’s need to control women’s sexuality,…see female circumcision) then Temari is perfect.

  33. Well Ill go in and say Sakura is indeed astrong character, she’s taken quite some time to mature and since has surpassed many of the nin in Konoha as well as ANBU it would seem. Her strength and determination have helped her endure quite a bit and she shares the, at whatever cost, spirit that Naruto also has.

    Now I will not except any of the anime filler or movie kills as legit since they have no relation to the actual story told through the manga, and at the same time I cannot except that Sakura is a strong main character, yes I know shes not supposed to be in the story but what I am referring to is, a single independent nin that could hold her own. Granted there aren’t many that could aside from those with the Sharingan, and now Naruto with his sage techniques, or at least we will see soon.

    Sakura is a great supporting role character, shes become fast on the draw, more attentive and has the will of fire. Her medical ninjutsu, like that we saw in the rescuing Gaara arc, was just far superior to even the ancestors of the Sand and quite possibly Tsunade’s.

    Hinata so far has seemed to show more and more of a spoiled princess side, starving for attention and always having someone there to aid her, while she just stands around admiring Naruto or peering into the distance. She could probably be replaced with a pair of binoculars atm since shes shown no real talent in the manga.

    Ten-ten on the other hand has quite a skill that many nin do not. She seems to have perfected nin arts through use of seals, not unlike what the 1st and 4th used in almost every one of their fights. Though her skills haven’t been anywhere near their par, they were Hokage though so she deserves the slack there. The only other real characters to throw down with the summoning seals would be Naruto, Tsunade, Sasuke, Kakashi, and such, there are more but eh.

    She could become great if she mastered all the seals could do but she seems to be nothing more then a weak support character to sympathize with or show female vulnerability. (that’s opinion not fact, don’t rip my head off)

    Now Temari, shes one damn good female nin, her use of wind for offensive and defensive attacks in one, and all around thinking style is in some ways chaotic but effective. She’s managed to save the leaf nin as well as defeat the sound with such ease. Her spirit never seems to be broken and she can still show a sensitive side as we saw when Gaara was taken captive.

    Now on to the main reason I wanted to post =p you insulted Kakashi tisk tisk that is so mean, He’s reminded of his team when he sees Team 7, Sakura is a quite possibly a spitting image of Rin in his eyes. The girl he promised Obito he’d watch and take care of, but in the end failed. He never stated Rin was weak but in fact it was him. He visits their memorial often, almost every morning before meeting with his team, pre time skip. In my opinion he saw her as a support to analyze from the rear while being protected to ensure her safety. He acknowledged that she was smart and very gifted, but at the same time had no where near as much potential as Naruto or Sasuke for growth, mainly because her Chakra pool is very limited. Also she wasn’t ready to be put in the front when we see them fight on the great Naruto bridge. Her emotions were what limited her in Kakashi’s eyes and therefore could destroy the team in a fight. Sasuke and Naruto both sought out training from Kakashi to become superior where as Sakura did not, so why would Kakashi want to teach her if she didn’t seem to want it?

    and there is a lot more garbage to toss around but I think kakashi’s emotions are what stopped him from training Sakura like he should have. Not so much that he thought she was weak, but what if he thought he was weak in fact too weak to save her if something were to happen?

  34. *yawns* what’s your point??? *completely ignores and goes back to bed without listening to what you have to say (face it….there are people like ME too in this world…that useless thing isn’t gonna change how i feel about that pink haired B^TCH….or was it blue…who gives a shit to that anyway?)*

    p.s. didn’t bother reading the whole thing (you guessed it….i am here just to waste my time!) but if there was anything written about hinata or Ino, i would want you to know “i LOVE them” (hinata because of her….whatever….Ino because of her…you know..)

    note: this isn’t a response to any of the comments…..

  35. well….i guess i read the last lines (the ones you said “found on the net”)….and let me tell you something:
    1. girls in manga are supposed to be cute…it’s not like real world…it’s a manga…if they aint cute, they just aint worth being called a character…
    2. crying is good for health (and something related to emotions and stuff) but why don’t you understand? SHE IS F^CKING CRYING ALL THE TIME!!! a sane person (like ME) calls that sort of person “whiny B^TCH”
    3. yeah it’s nice to be bitch sometimes….but come on…you need a soft side too!!! she just B^TCHES around, does nothing useful….and to make the matters worse, WHAT’S UP WITH THAT AIR OF SUPERIORITY THAT SURROUNDS HER? WHY DOESN’T SHE UNDERSTAND? IF SHE WASN’T PAIRED WITH NARUTO(AND sasuGAY), SHE WOULD DIE THE MOMMENT SHE ENTERED THE SET!!!
    4. she can’t make up her mind….well, frankly i don’t even understand what that’s supposed to mean…so, no aruguments…

    (also, it’s really tiring to scroll to the top of the page….)

    5. NARUTO DOESN’T MENTION sasuGAY’s name as often as she used to…naruto is taking it as a motivation….to surpass that stupid kid and bring his butt back to konoha…. let’s see with sakura….she wants to marry with sasuGAY…have children with him…i am truly glad that kishi decided to make it a boy manga…otherwise, she would have gone over-board ruining the whole manga!!!
    6. she DOESN’T REALLY DO ANYTHING means “she doesn’t help out anyone in the fights….when ninjas fight, they don’t give a shit to their life…but SHE DOES…who needs paracetamol from someone you risk your life for??? like when naruto fights, does he care if he’s gonna survive? HE DOESN’T….still he has to protect that girl (and she goes on telling everyone that “naruto protected me so that i could heal him later”….seriously, whoever gave kishimoto the idea of making sakura the medical ninja….i am gonna kill him….
    7. too tired of scrolling here and there….let’s just get to the name…..
    cherry-blossom….a beautiful tree….does nothing….sakura haruto….an ugly B^TCH….destroys everything….can’y do anything…just messes around and destroys what others have done….

    having said this….don’t even bother to reply….i will only come back when the new chapter is released!!!!

  36. thank you
    idk why people hate on sakura tsudade did want to train her i dont see her train ino or any body else and doesnt sakura teach ino medical ninjitsu

  37. also, don’t mind on that f^cked up grammar…..i am too tired and am going to bed…

    *sarcastically smiles….grins with devilish nature pouring through the cheeks…holds back….thinks to save it for the next time….waves at you cheerfully (fake of course…just like sai) and closes the site(as soon as the comment is posted)*

  38. oh and sasuke will own naruto if they fought right now i mean he took out deidara, orochimaru, itachi kind of, and made killer bee run away

  39. @JJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJ: yeah right!!! ino learning from sakura??? not in this lifetime!!!! Ino asked sakura to tell tsunade that she wants to learn medical nin-jutsu too….(and that B^tch tried to insult Ino by calling her “little sister”)

    also, ino has that mind trap thing….the one her dad used to get to that rain-country ninja….so, Ino is perfect for that job…..she rulz over Sakura big-time….

  40. sakura would punch a whole through that bitch

  41. @pain: No actually I would have to agree with jjjjjjj, there is a part where Ino & Sakura have a ‘heart to heart’, and Sakura offers to teach Ino some medical jutsu. I’ll look it up and get back to you on the when and where.

  42. I’m also siding with jjjjjjjj on this one. Sakura would indeed “punch a hole in that bitch” to put it in as scientific terms as possible.

  43. thanks guys when ino tried to fight kakuza she and choji had to get saved by kakashi everytime

  44. In the same filler you were talking about, Naruto killed the hot girl who was really just composed of hair did he not? He also killed 2 hearts of Kakuza which means he technically killed him twice. And we don’t even know if the girl Sakura punched died. The wall came down because she was “defeated”. But i am a Sakura and Hinata lover myself and i hope that they get stronger. (Even though I don’t see Hinata EVER getting to Nejis level.)

  45. @Kenin: I don’t know how to tell you this, but you know there has been some debate on the web about that ‘girl’ (Fuen) Sakura hits/kills in the Sora arc. Well lets see, how do I say this….uh…’she’ pees…standing up….at a urinal…in the men’s room.

  46. @pain: you don’t know how much i’d like to spar with you mate! coz you are one in Mah league!

    @kenin: LMAO ero-sennin said it!

  47. are you saying shes a guy or she just looks/sounds like one? I dont follow xD lol

    http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Fuen

    Says here shes a girl =P

  48. Oh, sorry for spamming

    I read the trivia secion lol

    + i also read that she is deceased.
    DAMN THAT KILLER SAKURA!

  49. Pretty much the same thing I posted in the other topic. I didn’t realize people had that great of dislike for Sakura, however no matter how you look at it she is powerful. To say she isn’t capable is bull. A literal ability to punch, someone with a single hit and kill them isn’t something that gets many jokes. Also since she was taught by Tsunade I would think she is able to do the same thing with other Shinobe. Jiiraiya taught Naruto and he taught Konohamaru. The same should apply with Sakura. Tsunade taught Sakura and now Sakura is able to teach someone else. Plus when is the last time you saw a medical Shinobe that had an offensive like that.

  50. Sakura is slowly training Ino actually, though we haven’t seen how any of that has paid off

  51. @Kyouto: I agree that she will be great, and will (sans being killed off by Kishi as dramatic climax to enrage Naruto) be the Tsunade of her generation. I simply get a bit annoyed with the weakening of her personality, not her abilities. Although, as I typed that I remembered that some plants wither to put more resources in to the bud. Thus appearing ugliest before blooming into a grand flower. (oddly enough the flower is the organism displaying it’s reproductive organs, could Sakura be preparing for the next generaton of Kohona ninja?)

    What if Kishi does kill off Sakura? What if it is Saskue who kills her by accedent in an attempt on the elders? What will that all encompassing rage bring out of Naruto? Would Naruto become as hate filled, and revenge driven as Sasuke? What happens when Yin turns to Yang, light to dark, and love to hate?

  52. well ero-sennin when that happens…pain kisses naruto’s ass….i know it’s dark….

  53. Dunno, just what if’n. Perhaps this is where the whole ‘bring peace or destroy the world’ prophecy comes into play.
    The rage would be so intense, it would be like napalm dropped on the California forest fire that is the 9-tails. Perhaps a unified campaign to stop an out of control Naruto-sage-kyubi would unite the Countries. Whatever, but Nagato will be ‘planting tulips’ long before any of that. Nagato will be, “…laying on his back, staring at the roof of the church…” in relatively short order.

  54. OK,

    First of all. **** all you guys for saying what a great post it was! Am I the only one that finds obvious flaws in her “logic” almost entirely through this “lecture”!?

    I am new to the site and I usually don’t comment, but I can’t hold my tongue on this one. Forgive me if someone already pointed these things out.

    So you say your not a sakura fan? At the very least you sympathize with her, your story about your math test is a testament to that. So, Before your “I’m not a sakura fan” kick your bias is apparent.

    Let’s start off with the very first thing you say…

    In disclaimer #1 That “His treatment of female characters almost seems like protection–in a sense… so they never get to face and conquer the really bad stuff. It makes them look weak” — This is a completely far from the truth because here you are talking about Kishi’s psyche towards female characters. In his quote all he sates is that there are a lot more things to being a good female character than cuteness. Secondly your speculation of his psyche is off because there are plenty of badass female Shinobi in the manga, Temari, Tsunade, skizune (RIP), Chiyo, etc. etc. shit even one of the elders is a female. So it has nothing to do with his writing of female characters as much as it does that Sakura pretty much sucks right now. I think if we are basing it off psyche your obviously find a flaw with his wiriting towards female characters.

    Disclaimer #2.. This is “Naruto” after all, not “Sakura” because females have been known to save the day throughout the manga (Hello! Tsunade just saved pretty much the entire village. Probably at the cost of her own life… sounds like someone else we know hmmm idk maybe Yondaime?!).

    Now as far as her “absolute disadvantage” when compared to the other 12 is pretty much the dumbest thing I’ve read from you. Sakura has a HUGE advantage over most of the twelve. Let’s talk about her parents. Ok they are actually alive. Maybe they aren’t shinobi (who the **** cares?) She obviously has to have someone in her family tree who is because she can use nin and genjustsu (therefore qualifies for a bloodline limit that you for some reason think she doesn’t qualify for). And the whole thing about family talk about tactics at the dinner table is pure speculation (that she doesn’t have that) and more importantly irrelevant, for arguments sake lets say she doesn’t have that luxury. There is a ninja academy for a reason, you learn pretty much EVERYTHING there, and sakura was an average if not above average student. I’m not saying that family talk doesn’t supplement the knowledge process, but she is perfectly on point with everyone else with the information the academy gave her. She doesn’t “need to fall back” on chakra control and wits, she excels at them. Which then asks the questions “why the hell isn’t she a kick ass shinobi!?” … the simple answer, she sucks

    Since when is kakashi a bad mentor for sakura??? The mere fact Kakashi doesn’t make sakura run up the tree doesn’t show chauvinism is shows respect! I think that if kakashi (graduated top of class at 5, and jounin at 13– I’d say he knows a little about being talented) respects her enough to know that if she mastered a technique that she doesn’t HAVE to keep doing it because the dumbass team she is with needs to spend all night to get it. If he did I did make her do it after she already mastered the technique that would be degrading. He also didn’t hold back after time skip when they did the bell training, so how again is he treating her different?

    Sakura is smart, has exceptional chakra control (she’s a great medical nin), she actually has parents, and was placed on the best team at the academy. She had ALL the advantages placed before her so she should be 100000000x better than she is! What if someone like Naruto had her chakra control and intelligence!?

    You talk about her being miles behind Sasuke at the start, well he is considered a genius, and Naruto is an absolute dumbass (still is… just not too long ago he was still VERY confused about nature manipulation) At the very start she had an average beginning.

    As far as her and Sasori she did NOTHING the only reason Sakura was even there was because kishi needed someone to die (AKA give their life) in order to bring back Gaara from the campfire with his dad 😉 and he needed someone semi-important in the fight to keep it interesting so it wasn’t two strange shinobi that were just introduced dooking it out. If Chiyo wasn’t there sakura would have been completely destroyed by Sasori. End of story.

    As far as the kill count, Chiyo and sasori is completely null an void. And if you are willing to give her credit for puching (not killing, that we know) one of Pains Summons, but don’t credit naruto for absolutely destroying Laser head (who [potentially] killed kakshi,and took him and 7 other guys including choji his dad and another relative [Chapter 422 page 8] to do the same thing) with not just one other Path of pain there but all 5 were there watching. We just saw the introduction of naruto’s yellow flash technique (it better be because I lose ALL respect for the rinnegan if it’s not. Otherwise no way naruto gets to him) so to think a simple punch is equal to taking out one of the 6 paths… well you get the point.

    And as far as her “kill” in the filler, if you want to get off on technicalities on naruto pwning laser head, shikamaru blowing up, dismembering, and burying 100 feet in a remote forest location Hidan, and Naruto literally “killing” kakuzu twice then you my friend, have the mental capacity of a lima bean.(by the way those are all your examples)

    Basically,

    The bottom line isn’t that Kishi has a pre determination towards female characters. Sakura, as she stands now, sucks. And your arugments are completely (although passionately) off base. Sakura would be perfect feeding naruto ramen, doing his laundry and healing his wounds after he fights. And most importantly giving our next hokage babies. 😀

  55. So you say your not a sakura fan? At the very least you sympathize with her, your story about your math test is a testament to that. So, Before your “I’m not a sakura fan” kick your bias is apparent.

    Actually, no, I am not biased about Sakura. However, I am presenting an argument in opposition to one begun in our comments which presented illogical, brash and ugly statements against her. Thank you for expressing your “opinion” about my sympathy for Sakura. I think you’ll find that I could write just as “sympathetic” a post about any of the Naruto characters and find a personal anecdote that serves the purpose. But I appreciate you telling me what I must be thinking.

    I think if we are basing it off psyche your obviously find a flaw with his wiriting towards female characters.

    Yes, this was the point of the disclaimer. Kishi’s writing pulls punches with his female characters, they are never placed in heroic circumstance unless it involves nurturing, healing or classically ‘feminine’ types of sacrifice/nurturing.

    (Hello! Tsunade just saved pretty much the entire village. Probably at the cost of her own life… sounds like someone else we know hmmm idk maybe Yondaime?!).

    Yes, Tsunade sacrificed her life force to keep the village alive, and was allowed to heal to the point that she didn’t get to pop of a single heel drop on Pain. This is exactly what I mean by pulling punches. She is allowed to make a “feminine sacrifice” but not allowed to fight (when she clearly has the skills, ability and drive to do serious damage).

    Now as far as her “absolute disadvantage” when compared to the other 12 is pretty much the dumbest thing I’ve read from you.

    Dumb? Hmm…I’m not engaging in a personal argument. Apparently you fail to understand that arguing the flaws in the logic means actually finding the flaws in the logic. But I think to do this, you first have to actually understand the argument. So far, you have given me evidence to the contrary.

    She obviously has to have someone in her family tree who is because she can use nin and genjustsu (therefore qualifies for a bloodline limit that you for some reason think she doesn’t qualify for).

    This does not logically follow. My sister has blue eyes, no one else in my (rather large) extended family does. Yeah, someone, somewhere must have had blue eyes, but it’s so remote from us we have no idea who. Kishi has established talents for jutsu tend to run along DNA lines, quite clearly in canon, he has no established that talent for jutsu can *only* come from ninja blood.

    And the whole thing about family talk about tactics at the dinner table is pure speculation (that she doesn’t have that)…

    Logical speculation, and not as much speculation as you appear to be blustering about. Family talks and teaching are well established in canon. Fathers/Mothers teach children their specialized jutsus and talents. Sakura’s parents (the only speculation is that they are not shinobi) appear to be citizens, without such specialized knowledge. Therefore, how could they pass such knowledge along the way other families do?

    There is a ninja academy for a reason, you learn pretty much EVERYTHING there…

    Then why has Kishi shown (repeatedly) parents mentoring children? You make an assertion that does not conform to the canon evidence.

    … but she is perfectly on point with everyone else with the information the academy gave her.

    There is a significant difference between knowing and doing (FREX: Sakura’s inability to follow shinobi rule of conduct #27 even though she knows it out right). Just as there is a difference between book larnin’ and your experience–and if there weren’t there would be no further testing (such as chuunin trials).

    She doesn’t “need to fall back” on chakra control and wits, she excels at them. Which then asks the questions “why the hell isn’t she a kick ass shinobi!?” … the simple answer, she sucks

    Hm. Her kill rate among the 12, although open for debate, certainly puts her in the kickass category. But perhaps you define kickass according to some alien form of logic as well? The argument that she sucks, without any reasoning or canon evidence is not worth debating further. In fact, I think I just stopped reading your comment.

  56. right, good article. thing about shikamaru/hidan thing though thats bugging me: hidan is immortal. of course he didn’t kill him, nobody CAN kill him. But he took him out in perhaps the most effective way possible. Add to the fact that he was not only dealing with hidan, AND hurting kakuza at the same time makes it that much more amazing. I think you can basically put sasuke and shikamaru as the only people thus far to kill an akatsukai by themselves. I agree that sakura can be a total BA when she has to, and can deal out some serious damage, and that she has undergone a lot to get where she is, but still doesn’t mean that she is on the same level as shikamaru or sasuke. Her skills entail healing, super power, relatively quick thinking, and decent speed. This is no where near enough to effectively take sasuke or shikamaru in a straight up one on one fight.
    This article has made me look at sakura in a different way, but saying that she is on the same level as the shinobi mentioned above is stretching it.

  57. @ Stevenintexas

    Since Ibi is on break right now I’ll step in and defend a few of her stances within the post for her. I won’t disagree with everything you say but it was an opinion post and was a good case for Saukura. The best I’ve ever seen on the net.

    First off you can’t bash an opinion post for being opinionated with an opinion laden response. That in itself is retarded logic.

    Kishi has been asked about his female characters many times at conventions and he himself admits that he has trouble writing female characters.

    The part about the starting point is a valid arguement, Naruto is the child of Minato and Sasuke is an Uchiha. There are not to many characters in the manga with that kind of lineage. I would even consider Neji and HInata behind Naruto and Sasuke as far as lineage. So I do think that the fact that Sakura comes from average beginnings is a valid argument. She has to work much harder than most, even if you do say she has excellent chakra control and is really smart, your just supporting Ibi’s arguement. She’s not born with that. Naruto and Sasuke were both born with a lot already in the tank so to speak.

    Kakashi was a great mentor for Sasuke and a great team leader for Naruto and Sakura but “mentor” is not a term I would put to Kakashi if pressed. I agree that he told her not to run up the tree because she had it already. I can’t speak for Ibi but perhaps a little anger runs through her post because of dumb ass comments like the last paragraph of yours.

    Truth is, he wasn’t a great match for mentor to those two. Thats why Sakura ended up with Tsunade and Naruto with Jiraiya. Sasuke got more than a couple head starts before the time skip by having Kakashi be the perfect mentor for him. Lightning/Sharingan/Genius nin. Add to that the curse seal that Oro gave him and he had just about as many headstarts as you could give him as far as a personal mentor and free pass to lots o power via Oro. So with that said Sasuke had many many advantages over Sakura.

    As for the Chiyo part of your arguement I’ll use your own logic against you. The only reason Chiyo was there was so that Kishi would have someone to sacrifice to save Gaara. Akatsuki going down is inevitable eventually. So Sasori vs Sakura was the constant that was going to happen regardless. Chiyo was the disposable character only doing something in the fight so that she didn’t just show up to save Gaara randomly. Sakura is not going to die. Sasori has to die. And Chiyo is brought in (making her the variable to save Gaara)

    Sakura vs Sasori = sasori dead

    Someone needs to save Gaara so the variable Chiyo is added.

    Chiyo is the disposable character in the Sasori fight not Sakura. Which I don’t think is the best way to defend that argument but I thought I’d be a smart ass and use your own retarded logic against you.

    The kill count was the weakest part of the argument but your retort was just as weak. Have you ever been in a fight? Not every punch you throw is going to be the greatest. Some times you just flail wildly in anger. Naruto did to Kakuzu in a couple minutes what Kakashi and a group of nin couldn’t do in an entire battle. Kakashi finished him off like someone finishes off roadkill that still has an ounce of life left. Naruto didn’t kill him twice. He brought him to the point of death and then he was finished off by Kakashi. The other hearts weren’t Kakuzu’s they were his by him taking them. It was his power. So Naruto destroyed the remainder of his hearts/power and then Kakashi curb stomped the head so to speak.

    Sakura as it stands now does not suck as you say. That was manga when she pwnd that Pain summons in one shot and there were Jounin everywhere running for the hills from it, so I don’t know how you make that argument.

    You even contradicted yourself with that last statement, when earlier you said “Sakura is smart, has exceptional chakra control she’s a great medical nin” Well which is she? Great or Suck? You even seem pretty confused by it.

    The bottom line is that you tried really hard to kill this post that Ibi “passionately” wrote as you say. She had just been under anti female fire by some guys on another post that pissed her off and she wrote an opinion post on a defense of Sakura. But her message was clear, that she doesn’t suck. Which is more than I can say to your confusing response which contradicts itself, is poorly organized and reeks of insecurity and anger. Your response was a mediocre attempt to bash something till it quits. And much like Neji vs Naruto, it just doesn’t work that way.

    Thanks for the comment but try to be less insecure and more constructive with your discussion posts in the future.

  58. Damn! I thought you were on sabbatical? I just killed my fingers on an iphone for 15 minutes writing that @_@ lmao oh well… you beat me to it.

  59. I pop up in the damndest places? Yeah, I shouldn’t have done that…didn’t have the time but being called dumb and…worst of all ‘not logical’ gets me the way “chicken” does to Marty McFly.

    Wow. Jeremiah, your iphone skills are incredible. Did you do that in class? *smirk*

  60. @ Jeremiah

    I Understand that Chiyo was the variable character in that fight. But why do you think Sakura was definitly going to be there? Explain that to me. The fact of the matter is, Kishi CHOSE sakura for that role, but IF that variable character wasn’t there she without question would have lost. In a true fight of skills sasori vs. sakura=sakura dieing (disagree?). Without “x” character Sakura Dies… Sakura won’t die, which I agree, So Sakura wouldn’t be in that fight if she wasn’t definitely going to win. Does that mean she is skilled? No It means kishi chose her to be there. That doesn’t make her more skilled or even on the same plane as sasori. That’s what I was saying.

    What does “trouble writing female charcters” really mean? Because let’s face it until he says it its 100% speculation. Because it could simply mean it is easier for him to write masculine chacters, not that his female characters are weak.

    I’m also not arguing that Kakshi was a better fit for sasuke and J man for Naruto, and tsunade for sakura. I am saying that him making her not run up the tree doesn’t make him chauvinistic. Please read next time.

    And really jeremiah? the whole Kakuzu thing really suprises me at the utter lack of understanding of him. I thought more from you :/. His hearts were his “lives” and when naruto and team shows up as back up kakashi admits to “killing him twice already” (ref. 339 page7) so yes in FACT naruto did kill him twice. In a sense he had 5 “lives” with his five hearts.

    The Jounin running away from the summons? first of all who knows what they are doing? do you think they are running because they in fear? wow they must truly be noobs. Or is it that maybe they had a mission they were in the middle of that we don’t know exactly what they were doing, or that danzo has some sort of hand in it… Who knows? It could be one million other things, how much about ANBU do we really know anyway (ie motiviations, etc)?

    The truth is we don’t know. But if you think the ANBU were running in fear, either your dumb or the ANBU is garbage. Take your pick.

    The real bottom line, was Sakura is actually ok, just the reasoning she gave for her argument was complete horse sh^t. im sorry. But your right it was an opionated discussion and I came back with an opinion, so I guess there is no way to discern. I didnt even she that she just replied until now. so let me go read that.

    One real quick thing Ibi… Rock lee can’t perform ninjustsu why is that? because his family isn’t shinobi right? Well then if you are so bent on her parents not being ninja why does sakura have the nin and genjustsu abilities? :/ …. but your right my logic is bad. wow.

  61. And that last paragraph was for nothing other than to stir some emotions, I think it worked.

  62. 1) If you weren’t so condescending and contradictive, then I wouldn’t have jumped on your post so badly.

    2) I said Jounin not Anbu. So re read what I wrote. And you make no sense at all in that part. I’ll go out on a limb and just say right now that Sakura could take out an Anbu member. They are like disposable ninja’s in a movie.

    3) As to Kakazu’s hearts we both know what we are talking about here. You attacked Ibi on technicalities and now your attacking me for putting it bluntly? How do you want it? I can write it any way you want. You’ve also got it twisted. Kakuzu wasn’t born with multiple hearts, he acquired them. I don’t know what the english translation said but in the Japanese version those are not his hearts. It’s his power. I am not wrong on this one. Read the Naruto wiki on Kakuzu instead of just guessing. He even tries to take Kakashi’s heart during the fight. It’s his power.

    “Left with no usable hearts after being battered by Naruto’s technique, Kakuzu laments being defeated by those he considers “kids”. Kakashi assures Kakuzu that the previous generation being surpassed by the next is perfectly natural and one of the “never-ending cycles of life”; Kakashi then finishes him off with a Lightning Blade.” Naruto-pedia

    Think of it like Zelda. He can take the hearts of others to replenish himself. It’s not him dieing multiple times.

    4) She sucks, she’s great, she’s ok now… make up your mind.

    5) I agreed with you about not running up the tree but I’m starting to think you didn’t read my comment.

    6) Chiyo was not a main character. She was disposable as you yourself argued. No matter what Sakura was not going to die in that fight according to either of our logic, which was my point but you missed it.

    I tried to lob you a couple gimmes and even stated at the beginning that I didn’t disagree with everything you said but you even retorted on what I agreed with you on.

    So I don’t know what else to say…

    I’ll just note one more thing, when you say stuff like, if you think this your stupid, or I expected more from you and then you follow with a completely inaccurate statement it makes you look like a total douche.

    So I’ll say it one more time… again…

    Thanks for the comment but try to be less insecure and more constructive with your discussion posts in the future.

    P.S. And please click that link for Kakuzu because he didn’t die multiple times, they may have killed his hearts but Kakuzu didn’t die. Kakashi is the one that actually killed him after Naruto beat him to an inch of his life. What ever the translation you read is probably because it doesn’t translate well into english or like when the flash back a couple issues ago referred to the new animal realm as a guy a couple times.

  63. Jeremiah,

    One last time. I understand that your not getting it on the first 3 times. Whether you will stick with your translation or look at mine is fine. But you “know your right” so here is what I’m basing my statments off of.

    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/339/07/

    I read onemanga. Which your own site links to. So I think Im ok with it. And just to make sure, I even did you one better and gave you the direct link to why I said Naruto killed him twice.

  64. wow this is getting so intense i think i should call the swayze and captain planet together to end this. 🙂

  65. Wow … see what happens when I don’t read a post for 48 hours? As probably one of the only girls besides Ibiki and Babyfox who post here, I have to add in my two cents to Steve-o in Texas.

    I won’t repeat what I’ve seen others argue (Jeremiah-2, Steve-O), but I have to say in reference to the badass female shinobi, Ibiki got it right when she said Kishimoto protects them too much. Let’s break it down through each of your character references: Temari, Tsunade, Shizune, & Chiyo.

    Temari, while definitely a great fighter, has never had to fight another male ninja (that we’ve seen) except Shikamaru, and in that case he gives her the fight because he runs out of chakra before the battle is finished during the Chuunin exams. When she saves Shikamaru from the four Sound ninja, she fights the only female member of that team – another instance of Kishimoto softening the fight for his female characters.

    Tsunade – Again, badass kunoichi, but we don’t get to see her really fight a man AND WIN. Naruto has to cover for her during the first 3/4ths of the Sannin match pre-timeskip, and even when she did start battling Orochimaru, the fight had no clear winner (meaning, one side didn’t kill the other). Now with Pain invading the village, Tsunade has been relegated to using Katsuyu to heal everyone and just as she steps in to really do battle, Naruto tells her to get a cup of tea and relax. Whether you think it’s chauvanist or not, that’s patronizing.

    Shizune – Have we ever seen her fight anyone? She lobs off a few senbon at Kabuto one time, and as far as I can remember, that’s all we ever see of her fighting skills.

    Chiyo – This is perhaps Kishimoto’s only instance of not coddling a female ninja during a fight, but he makes it personal since Sasori is Chiyo’s grandson. Being at the end of her life already, she’s also more disposable as Jeremiah mentioned, so there’s no need in Kishimoto’s mind to protect her. Chiyo has to protect the next generation, which is one of the themes of the manga and the reason she gets to fight (and die).

    And on a side note, where has Kishimoto ever said that you have to have a ninja in your family tree to become one yourself? That, to me, is like arguing whether the chicken or the egg came first … According to your logic, no one can become a ninja without already having other ninja in their heritage, right? Well, following that logic, how could anyone have become a ninja in the first place if it’s a talent only passed down through families? There would have to be a starting point, but if it’s only passed on through bloodlines, that’s impossible. Do you see what I’m saying here? If anything, I’d say you’re either born a ninja or not, meaning you either have ninjutsu and genjutsu abilities or you don’t. Taijutsu can be learned. Rock Lee was born without nin/genjutsu, and has striven to master taijutsu because of that, but that doesn’t mean there were never any ninja in his family tree, only that he was born without those kinds of chakra.

    *Steps off soap box*

    I feel better now LOL

  66. i agree that you don’t have to have a ninja in your lineage to be one or acquire a “family” jutsu. proof of that is when the lightning guy tried to steal the eyes of hinata to discover byakugan’s secret. what’s the point of discovering it’s secret if you can’t do it? it’s like frs. anyone understands how it works and the exact steps of doing it, but only naruto can do it. (i’m totally going off track and clueless now) anyways, if the guy discovered the secret, than he would have used it and made a byakugan for himself. IMPORTANT: READ THE REST. screw that example. say a guy wanted to know how to do the Nara jutsus(aka shadow moves) if they agree to tell him, then it’s probably something anybody could do if they know how it works. remember WAYYYY back when they wee training for FRS next to the waterfall, and then they were talking about nature manipulation and light and dark jutsus hat don’t use an element. i rthink kishi cvan’t ends the manga without showing us what that means. i mean the manga isn’t going to end with a hokage completely clueless about the types of jutsus that can be done!!! or could he.’_|_’

  67. ummm, i was going to join in, but i really don’t like gang bangs, i like the one-on-one and the feeling i get when i look them right in the eye so they know who really is in charge… anyway, for clarification, Riduko was the first person to have ninjutsu, and thus with some arguments previously posted all ninja are descended from him, which would be impossible unless he existed a 1,000+ years ago and was a mormon/catholic…

    @ibi- haha, i knew you couldn’t stay away, hopefully i wasn’t one of the guys you thought was sakura bashing, cause i really don’t want to be the focus of you’re wrath next time…

    @stevenintexas- don’t worry about the shit Jeremiah said, as long as you do some more research it should all work out, i like the way you argue, just take some more time on what you’re trying to say… it’s only facts that we care about here, if your arguement is well thought out and can be backed up with some relative facts then it’s all good. I’ts when you can’t back it up with either some interview material, manga, filler, or just natural assumptions that it gets tricky around here. If you want you can go back to my and ibi’s “discussion” on the senju clan (i forget where that is if someone want to help steven out just post the link…). Just have some reasonable facts and as long as there theory is just as theoretical as yours you’ll be fine (it helps to be stubborn with your ideas which it seems you already are, but if you need more help, again find the senju stuff, that is prime example by me how to effectively stick with your argument.)

  68. @雨隠れの里Tinman: It may be a fake, but what do I know.

    @Steveintexas: I would like to address where you went wrong without addressing your logic, as that has already been done. You know when you started your first diatribe with, “First of all. **** all you guys for saying what a great post it was!” I knew to ignore you. Then before you decided to really flaunt your ignorance in the ending paragraph you said, “…then you my friend, have the mental capacity of a lima bean.” At that point I decided to sit back and watch with the comedic curiosity of someone watching a dumbass sneak-up on a sleeping tiger with an inflated paper bag, giggling, telling his friends, “Hey ya’ll watch this!”

    Maybe you noticed my not so subtle insults. That would be the same place you went wrong. Many people here have varying opinions, but all are entitled to them. The difference is they tend to exchange them with humor and humility; qualities you clearly lack. Maybe in your real life you feel insignificant, and you compensate with an aggressive approach to addressing others. The article was simply a point of view, both well written, and thought out. I may not agree with everything said there, but because I am not Kishi, I have no idea of the true intentions of either the manga’s direction, or the characters possibilities. Thus I would tend to respect everyone’s opinion that did not openly contradict the facts of the story (funny enough you showed no respect for the time and effort of the writer, and had poor facts to back it up with).

    So, what are we left with? You using childish methods to be the center of attention. Another boring troll. Hope you enjoyed it (such shallow, simple pleasures, for shallow simple people I suppose) Come back, but logically, and civilly if you can dig that deep in such a shallow well of a personality.

  69. seriously. you guys care about the direction of the manga sometimes more than kihsi himself does. i mean he doesn’t care about naruto. it’s all fictional, PEOPLE!!!! KISHI, AS I WOULD LIKE TO PUT IT, MAKES THE STORY good only cuz of the MONEY. i’ll say it again. MONEY!!!! one last time.MONEY!!!!! no offense if you felt offended or anything.

    BTW it seems the more popular this blog becomes, he more aggressive people who comment in it become.

    ps MONEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY 😉

  70. EDIT HE* THE

  71. GAH!! my eyes burn more than itachi’s eyes now cuz i’ve been readin’ too much without glasses on my screen!!!!

  72. @anon: True enough lol. For me it isn’t even the correctness of the facts, as much as the attitude. I have been under the impression that this site is for an exchange of ideas between people who like manga and anime. My job is serious enough, I come here for an escape. I know your right, but its not like he couldn’t get a job as a Raku pottier, so he said to himself, “self, I guess we could do a manga.” I’m not trying to be a smarta$$, I just mean he always liked manga himself. Maybe he even felt as some do here about his favorites. Again, your right, the money don’t hurt.

  73. @Ero Senin

    lol, you didn’t like the way I was addressing the post with my insults because you think it’s wrong right?

    Yet, you do the same thing but cowardly hide behind saying something along the lines, “I was just trying to make a point by showing you what you did” So you really think that your better than my flaming post? I would like you to tell me how. Or how it was different. Please do.

  74. ***for the record*** I do apologize to Ibi for flaming. I will come back with a normal civil argument. After all she did invite all the haters 😉 So to everyone, I apologize to HOW I said it, not what I said. 🙂

  75. @steveintexas
    It wasn’t, that’s the point. I’m no better, and that sort of thing really doesn’t accomplish anything. I just wanted to make a point about trying to sway the opinions of those you’re insulting. You seem to have read a great deal of Naruto, and have a passion for it. I think you’ll find people of the same ilk here, and possibly have good things to contribute. Flaming is fine (just ask harsytkage), but don’t ostracize your audience.

  76. I don’t know about any of the arguments but I think it should end here. Lets make this a simple sentence. If you are judging Sakura by her achievements then she is a good and powerful character, however if you are basing Sakura off her potential then she comes across a little weaker. That is what you were all shooting for right? If I said anything or did anything offensive then I am sorry. Its just I would rather see this resolved sooner than later.

  77. WTF! looks i have to fic the atmosphere up again….
    *Picks up his broom and prepares to write a badass post*

    (why the f**k did i pick up the broom??????)

  78. EDIT fic – fiX

  79. Naruto – hey sakura! everyone seems to be fightin over u over at iareawesomeness!

    Sakura(Blushes)- Oh! they don’t have to…

    Naruto – Yeah! it’s all a fight of wether u suck or not, some guys even callin u SUCKura

    Sakura – HELL WHAT??? (puts her gloves on and flexes her fists)

    *BEATS THE HELL OUTTA NARUTO*

    Naruto – WHazzz was THAsss for?????(swollen mouth)

    Sakura – oops! it was a mechanical response, attributed to muscle memory

    Naruto is clueless

    Naruto – there seems to be some Stevie wonder dude talkin $h^t abt you

    Sakura – STEVIE WONDER!!!!! what did i ever do to him! i love his Songs!

    Naruto – oh sry it’s some condecsnding an’ haughty dude called steve in texas

    Sakura – i’ll put it to steve in hiw own *******(count the no. of stars and fill in the blanks)

    Naruto – there’s some chick ibiki who’s defendin ya!

    Sakura – a girl…(feels down)…why don’t boys ever defend me….

    Naruto – *Cough* Naruto

    Sakura – u say smfin

    Naruto- never mind

    Ibi- WTF! I;m here defendin ur ass off and all u can say is why dont boys defend ya u cry baby bitch!

    Sakura – WTF! how in the world did u just enter the manga world?????
    Ibi – I posses the SWAYZEingan…and u posses nfin shitbrain, last time i dfend u

    Harshy – hey hey! no more fighting *cough b!tching*, this was supposed to be a feeble attempt to clear the atmosphere, not start another fight….
    well…better if i stop now, most of ya would’ve been asllep by now if u hve reached the end….Congrats! you can officially handle anything thrown atcha with ur full attention. So ur the one who doesn’t go to sleep when they talk about the string theory…..gud for you ^^

  80. I find there is only one way to lighten a mood after a battle and I feel it bubbling in my soul.

    P.S. Steven you are welcome to come back just check the attitude at the door next time.

    My next comment will be the money shot…

  81. Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaitoooooooooooooooo Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  82. I feel better now…

  83. if u didn’t get it the first time….it’s-

    Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaitoooooooooooooooo Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  84. maito GAY

  85. The power of YOUTH! I could use some Maito Gai right now…in fact I have a theory about him. Hmmm….maybe I’ll save it for next week. Still missing (nearly) every single one of you. I will be back soon–trying to figure out how to get some of my dad’s rude one liners into the convo here.

    He got a sales call on his cell at an inconvenient time, hung up and said: “They should make this damn thing hollow, so you could just pee in their ear.” I won’t tell you where we were at the time, but there was a lot of suppressed laughter…which makes it funnier because he shouldn’t have said it and we _really_ shouldn’t have laughed.

    I’ll be back (peeing words and dumb ideas into your computers again) soon. ^.^

  86. i’m afraid that Tsunade will die, she’s one of my fav. Further more she used the souzoseizei twice now. Kishi, don’t let her die now! I don’t want another sannin to die! Plus i wanna know more about her jutsus or abilities…

  87. I don’t think that Tsunade will die quite yet. I think she is becoming wrinkled because she used almost all of her Chakra healing everyone. This is just like the time she Healed Naruto after she battled Orochimaru. She’ll just need a nights sleep and she’ll look 30 again instead of 50.

  88. @harshy: wow! that was hilarious!!! really really hilarious….roflmfao
    and
    @ibiki: I AM BACK!!! (i really didn’t get what you meant in the post up but i guess you want some arguments from my side too)

    p.s. who’d have known that pain could summon the Pou(kung-fu-panda) as well??? next thing you know he will be summoning Spider-Man to fight against naruto….or maybe Captain Planet….or maybe X-Men….i wish i was Pain….oh wait!!! i already am a huge “Pain in the @ss”….i am really close….i just need to work a little harder…

  89. @anon: miato GAY??? that doesn’t make sense….sasuGAY is perfect (rhymes with his original name…)
    try harder…i want to see if you can come up with something funnier for Gai-sensei and could you work on something for kakashi, naruto, shikamaru and tenten….???? *shows puppy dog eyes which no human being can resist*)

  90. Just managed to read most of it through, and dont know if this have post yet since I am not done reading it all through.iy
    For me it seems like Sakura dosnt have the same determination when she fought Sissori, and for the record she did not kill Sissori neither did Chiyo, or that is atleast if you ask me, technically i would say he commited suicide, Chiyo said herself that he could easily have avoided that finishing kill, or well that he should been able to. Which I actually dont doubt for a second, so well he put up a fight, and ended beign reunited with the doll of his parrents from his own free will.
    Through out the fight Chiyo did pull most of the strings so to speak, but despite that got to hand it to Sakura putting her life in the hands of someone she barely knows. Her trust regarding other people, for forinstance and her support has a hughe impact on the story.
    If Sassori hadnt shared the information about the meeting at the bridge Naruto wouldnt have gone there and fought Orishima “not sure it is the right name”, Naruto wouldnt have transformed into the 9 tales, wouldnt have damage Sakura and would still be counting on the kyubi’s power.
    Also his determination to begin with to save Saskuke is traced back to Sakura, he promised her to get him back.
    So intially speaking if Sakura wouldnt have been the charakter she was the entire story would have been very differently.
    Those who says she’s worthless forgets the impact she has have on Naruto, and the initial team of Sakura, Saskuke, Naruto and Kakashi.
    Regarding he disadvatage I will agree that their not valid, Sakura had from the start quite a few advantages as there had been mentioned. From the beginning she had a head start knowing how to manipulate charka etc.
    Though she lacked the determination to anything else than a support. Naruto wanted to be accepted, Saskuke had revange, and Sakura really didnt have anything, then Sakuke left she got motivation but relied on Naruto since she was to weak.
    For Sakura to get stronger I wouldnt say she nessesarily need more Jitzu’s, but the fact that she needs to be more selfdependent, so her and Hinata in my mind are quite equal, just by Hinata it is put out more clearly, and well Hinara has a determination atleast “Naruto”.
    So out of all the shinobi I would say she is the weakest, not nessesarily in power but in determination, once she gets more independent she covered her weakest point, and I guess that is why she needs to grow up.

  91. Oh yeah, do you think that Kakashi is dead? I’m so anxious about it, I’m also reluctant to believe that Shizune is also dead.

  92. @ Tsu Nade – you don’t get any more dead than Shizune.

  93. Whoo-hoo-hoo, look who knows so much. It just so happens that your friend here is only MOSTLY dead. There’s a big difference between mostly dead and all dead. Mostly dead is slightly alive. With all dead, well, with all dead there’s usually only one thing you can do. (name that movie) Hint: If we get her to Miracle Max he can fix her, and we can get the Holocaust Cloak.

  94. Princess Bride:“You’ve been chasing me your entire life, only to fail now. I think that’s the worst thing I’ve ever heard; how marvelous.”–princess bride–via sasGAY to Narutard

  95. we have a winner! For a film from ’87 I wasn’t sure anyone would get it. I on the other hand used to know that film word for word. I know, pathetic.

  96. no whats sad is making a game out of who knows the most quotes from that movie on a 4 hour bus ride home.

  97. When I lived in Ohio, we made a drinking game out of it.

  98. Thats just plain…genius.

  99. @ Tsu Nade – Shizune has to be dead, she is a supporting character for Tsunade. Since they are going to kill Tsunade off in the next few chapters, there will be little purpose for Shizune in the storyline. Since her soul was ripped out, then human realm pain was summoned away, and the huge explosion took place there would be no way to reunite her corpse with her extracted soul. Say good by to this support character.

  100. hello my name is uzimaki naruto u killed my sensei prepare 2 die.

  101. Is it just me or is Viz media already down tonight? This is a bad omen for streaming Naruto.

  102. sorri if it´s been said already but since Alec pointed out a kill that sakura got during a movie i will say… then naruto has gotten three kills gettin one in the first, second and third movie

  103. OH! and he killed an awesome monster(muryuu or whatever) in the 4th thats a x2

  104. Have you seen the manga 431? it seems Tsunade is finished…I think.. Im worried! If you’ve watched them, you could see that “well done, tsunade” in page 5 plus Sakura was so shocked to see her condition.

  105. @EroSennin: ‘I am not a witch I’m your wife!’ Kakashi needs that miracle pill about now, but it takes an hour for full effectiveness. The chocolate makes it go down easier.

    And Tsunade is SO going to take Kakashi’s place at the campfire.

  106. Ok prediction time… Kakashi is dead right now, or damn near dead. nagato (The real pain) is near the leaf but far enough away not to get hurt. Nagato cannot fight in his original body and that is why Konan released paper clone to go protect him. Naruto will kill the all the pain for a final showdown with god realm, naruto will then use the info Kakashi died for to beat god realm.

    Naruto will then change nagato’s heart at the end of the fight with words or just by pure determination. Nagato will then show his true self and along with Tsunade they will “fix” Kakashi and give him an “upgrade”, Nagato and Tsunade will die in the process. I think this is why God realm said Kakashi could be trouble later on and why Kakashi was the first one to fight him. Konan will then befriend the leaf and disappear to be used later in the story.

  107. I also know how the end of the fight with pain will go down, look at 416 Legend of the Gutsy ninja…It will sound just like that. The prophecy about Jiraiya will be true. -_+ believe it!!!

  108. amen

    thank you for those beautiful words last scorpion…

    always an honor hearing a fellow sannin

  109. @Alec…Thank you ^_^, I know I do not say much anymore but I still try to read what people have to say….when I have the time >__<.

  110. Well i liked you theory, scorpion (i know this doesnt mean much for you since its coming from me lol). I remember reading somewhere in nthe manga that if a ninja was to use the last drop of his chakra, i mean if were to go down completly to 0%, he would die for sure even if he´s the best ninmin the world.

    I don´t think he can be revived since the only reviving tech we saw was chyo´s and as far as we know that jutsu died along with her, but who knows kishi might surprise us.

  111. oh! yeah and Naruto killed the guy cloned as Itachi when he first used his Oodama rasengan

  112. GREAT ARTICLE ON SAKURA. SHES THE BEST CHARACTERS OUT THERE.I HOPE OVER THE TIMESKIP SHE LERANS GENJUTSU

  113. @LALALA-
    lalalalalalala….i can’t hear you….lalalalalalal…i won’t hear you…..lalalallaa

  114. YOU KNOW SHE THE BEST FEMALE NINJA OUT OF THE ROOKIE 9.FACE IT,SHE HAS EVERYTNIG A STORNG FEMALE NINJA SUPPOSE TO HAVE.YOUR UNDERSTAND ONEDAY ,HOW IMPORTANT SHE IS TO THE SHOW.ALL IM GOING TO SAY TO THAT COMMENT IS LA,LA,LA…

  115. is it important to use all caps?

  116. Hinata, Waterfall Training Scene. That’s all I gotta say! 😉

  117. I agree that Sakura probably has stronger feelings for Naruto than she herself realizes (Yamato basically says as much). But, I won’t buy that she has moved on from Sasuke until after she starts referring to Naruto as “Naruto-kun”.

  118. this time, i didn’t come here intentionally ^_^
    someone lead me here (no i won’t tell the name)

    but everytime i see someone praising sakura (or maybe most of them…including you….are just sympathetic towards her) i get this sudden urge to do….whatever…
    so, i have to agree on supertrek here…
    hinata waterfall training scene (i still believe she was ero dancing) was the best…showed how much beautiful she is (like i said earlier…way earlier….japanese value beauty…in girls…) unlike sakura’s fl….wait…let’s not go that far…there are children in here ^_^(<< gay emoticon but better than waiting for moderation)

  119. o btw naruto did kill that kazakage guy in the star country arc.

  120. Hinata isnt even a main character, if anybodys got some growing to do is Hinato. Sorry Sakura rocks! And I hope in the storyline somewhere they clear up Sakura’s parents, make it more interesting.

  121. Hinata isnt even a main character, if anybodys got some growing to do is Hinato. Sorry Sakura rocks! And I hope in the storyline somewhere they clear up Sakura’s parents, make it more interesting. And you can be in love with two people at once look at New Moon. The question is which one has more power over her heart, now that makes it interesting to find out. I think Sakura got alot of potential. Atleast she doesn’t pass out. Im for Naruto and Sakura.

  122. LOL NEW MOON

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