Naruto’s Pedigree

 

Who's Your Daddy?

Who's Your Daddy?

This is IbikiTeishi (Mollie) pulling out a big stick with which to stir the poo pot.  I have gathered the evidence to persuade you there is merit in my crackpot theory of Naruto’s unknown pedigree.  Everyone (except the title character) knows that Naruto is the son of Namikaze Minato (uh, for those who are dumb as hell just joining us that’s the 4th Hokage, dumbass) and Uzumaki Kushina.  Kushina came from another village, but Minato did not.

In the manga, great power descends from pedigreed clans, each generation getting stronger than the one before (some characters say); DNA allows for the development of kekkei genkai and other special clan skills (like the 1st’s mokuton or wood ability–lol there’s no, er, ‘clean’ way to say that).  Someone truly talented never springs out of nowhere; there is always a clan backstory in the end.  (Did I rile you up yet, Alec?)

Except Naruto and Minato.  And then our boy turns out to be the 4th’s own son.  So…where did Minato come from?

Clan’s are depicted with similar features, especially the HAIR.  It’s all about the hair.  Jiraiya has the craziest ‘do.  Nobody has hair like him (please…correct me if I’m wrong), except Minato and Naruto.  Akimichis maybe, maybe Nidaime (who also has white ok, gray hair, btw, and we don’t know about Jiraiya’s family either). 

Very few people have golden blonde hair like Tsunade, except Minato and Naruto.  (Yamankas, Temari, Deidara and Dan–OMG! Minato is Jiraiya and Dan’s love child!).  So hair alone narrows the field of possible “known” shinobi to a few candidates.  (k, if you aren’t giggling…check your sense of humor because I’m totally messing with you.)  So Minato looks like he could be the son of Jiraiya and Tsunade, or Jiraiya and Dan, if they ever indeed had kids.

Family Portrait?

Family Portrait?

I know most of you are saying…that would be impossible, dumbass!  The ages, the time lines, it doesn’t add up.  Yeah, did the math on that.  When the series starts, Jiraiya and Tsunade are about 50 years old, Naruto is about 12.  That means he was born when they were about 38, which is also when Minato died.  If Minato was as old as 24 when he died, he was born when Jiraiya/Tsunade were 14, conceived when they were 13 (years before Dan and Tsunade first meet, she appears to be late teens to mid twenties).  The Sannin were made jounin at 10, so by the time they hit puberty there wasn’t a sensei to…well…er, chaperone.  And we all know Jiraiya would…what a perv…(he’s so my hero).

So the plausibility of the theory isn’t crushed by timelines, and hinges on how old you think Minato was when he died, by his pic at the top of the entry he was younger than I expected (Kushina was pregnant at the time).  Personally, I think he was put into Hokage as a pinch hitter–the face and jutsu man while the 3rd worked the politics.  Minato was put in when young, physically at his peak and politically stoopid inexperienced, possibly even as a sacrifice…but that’s an evil story for a different day.  (The 3rd, the elders and Danzou are all TOOLS, and good riddance.  GASP!  Have I wound you up yet?). 

Naruto and Uncle Nawaki

Naruto and Uncle Nawaki

Why the hell should Naruto look just like Tsunade’s little brother (Nawaki) if they aren’t related?  Sure Naruto has Kushina’s eyes, but he has Tsunade and Nawaki’s eyeliner.  Why does Nawaki also look like Minato as a kid?  (Of course Nawaki kind of looks like Jiraiya too, so maybe he and Tsunade are ‘Kissing Cousins’ by way of Nidaime and Naruto’s the product of inbreeding.  Also explains a lot…rile YOU up yet, Jeremiah?)

Next there is the dialogue between Tsunade and Jiraiya everytime this comes up, and the weird look on Tsunade’s face.  I see guilt there, but I leave that up to you to decide (esp. #158, 159 and #367).

Introductions

Introductions

WTF is '...' for unless she is worried?!

WTF is '...' about unless she is worried?

Naruto calls Tsunade gramma.  OK, so it’s a funny joke, but in a work of fiction jokes like this, especially when the character’s ancestry is secret or unknown, and the joke comes back again and again and again, that’s foreshadowing (or just really bad writing).  Same thing with Jiraiya calling/thinking of Naruto ‘like’ his own grandson, so often that even Iruka had noticed this (#406).  There’s also a funny reference to Minato as his ‘son’ in #367:

He said, after bragging his ass off.

Jiraiya said about Minato, after bragging his ass off.

My guess is, if this theory is true, Jiraiya either didn’t know the truth or had to pretend not to know; I’m not saying J-man raised Minato, I’m saying he donated the DNA.  I also think very few would know about Tsunade’s ordeal.  Perhaps the Third orchestrated the whole thing, frickin’ eugenics pimp.  But he’s dead now, so he won’t tell. 

So…tell me why it isn’t true.  I’m not gonna listen unless you can lay down some evidence to the contrary.  Ibiki-sensei taught me to be a hard ass about that long ago; gimme your best shot.  (k, now I’m really messing with you, trying to piss you off so you’ll take a swing at me…like a loudmouth in a bar who’s had one too many…so, did my crap stick work?  does this shit float?  what do you think?)

UPDATE:  I promised the evidence that puts Tsunade out of this equation.  I was hoping someone else would come up with it.  One of Jiraiya’s flashbacks as he’s dying:

No Nooky for You Pervy Sage

No Nooky for You Pervy Sage

Given the context and the rest of what he thinks being brutally honest, I think this is the terrible truth–without any kind of candy coating or wishing it could be true.  Jiraiya and Tsunade never, ever, not even once (unless J-man doesn’t remember, LOL) made the two-humped beast.  But…I won’t give up on the idea that Minato could be Jiraiya’s.  Not yet, anyway…

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~ by 千手 鼾弟子 Ibiki Teishi on November 2, 2008.

95 Responses to “Naruto’s Pedigree”

  1. Fiiiiirst!

  2. I agree. Cool theory post. Well… back to shagging and being first at everything…

  3. Bono you are such DUMBASS

  4. “After leaving the Third’s tutelage, he traveled the world and discovered the residence of the toads…despite the fact that he left Konoha for many years, Jiraiya has maintained a strong allegiance with his hometown” – Naruto.wikia.com

    So papa was a rolling stone theory isn’t totally implausable if he knocked her up before he left Sarutobi’s squad. There would have had plenty of time before Jiraiya returned to take him into his squad never knowing that Tsunade had his child.

    But that would make them 1st cousins 0_o! *throws up in mouth*

    This theory works better without Jiraiya being directly related to the second. Or at least makes it easier to stomach.

    Here is where the problem comes in though. Jiraiya and Minato were tight. Jiraiya thought of Minato like a son. So why wouldn’t Jiraiya know who Minato’s mother was?

  5. The only way this still works is if when Jiraiya returns to the village Tsunade claims that shortly after he left she had a heavy night of drinking (not out of the question at any age) followed by a forgettable one night stand. She then follows this with a request for Jiraiya to mentor her fatherless child Minato, who Jiraiya takes under his wing and the rest is history.

    Hence the uncomfortable discussion about if he ever had a child and so on discussed in above post. Tsunade never actually says she never had a child. Knowing that Jiraiya would have liked to have had a child with her instead of the “one night stand” that had fathered Minato, would have made that conversation SUPER uncomfortable!

  6. theres no way that could b true man….nice observations when it comes to looks but timelines say otherwise. jiriya also said that he was like naruto’s godfather when minato and his wife named him…theres just no way

  7. @Jeremiah: 1st cousins…ok, I constructed that point to make you throw up in your mouth, they’re ACTUALLY 2nd or 3rd cousins (if we take my baloney here at face value). Shodai was Tsunade’s grandad, remember. So Nidaime would be her great uncle. If Jiraiya were Nidaime’s son–2nd cousins once removed (I think) and 3rd cousins if these Hokages are the grandads for both. But that doesn’t have as big a barf factor. lol. Although 1st cousins is legal in some states…*pukes*

    I think the theory also hinges on Minato being adopted immediately and raised as someone elses. Tsunade knew, and I’d bet the 3rd knew and MAYBE whoever raised him. Or was he raised like Naruto…doubt it, though, that’s part of what makes Naruto the child of the prophecy: his complete break with tradition as sacred.

  8. also @ Jeremiah: I think Jiraiya would have to be gone long enough to not even know she’d been gone too. And we all know Oro was in the basement working on the 3rd’s eugenics experiments…but that’s for a different post.

    And the discomfort of *that* conversation (#367). Hell, yeah. That conversation is the one that got me thinking like this. It’s just too…weird. Why go on and on? And she just sits there with this weird look on her face. It’s almost like he’s trying to get an honest answer out of her…at least that’s what makes sense to me if I were writing it. Yeah, it’s also setting him up for the big death scene, but maybe there’s more.

  9. @ anon: the timelines were laid out in the post, and do not debunk the baloney.

    Jiraiya is officially Naruto’s godfather–but might that also support the theory? Especially if both Minato and Jiraiya suspect the truth but don’t know/can’t talk about it?

    (psst…I do know of some evidence that would shred this…but I’m not telling…)

    @ Bono: happy shaggin’, thanks for stopping by.

  10. Hey one thing is though, descendants often carry similar styles to there ancestors in terms of techniques and fighting. Jiraya’s style is completely different from the second’s, and Sarutobi did say the first did still have his impressive “strength” (anime though, not in manga) when oro summoned the brothers. So that trait carries down to Tsunade pretty well. But where does Minato’s jutsu come from? Based on your argument of descending power with each generation surpassing the previous one within the clan, y has nobody else used space-time like Minato. And y was Naruto orphaned and on his own when he could be direct blood with either the likes of Jiraya, the first/ Tsunade? And if the Namikaze clan did exsist where are they now? and y didn’t they take in Naruto after the death of the fourth?

    Point is, you have too many holes that i can exploit for me to get riled up about your argument, and its more likely Namikaze came out of nowhere (underdog), Kushina is an outsider (underdog), and Naruto’s fighting style is more like her’s than Minato’s. And with his parents dead/missing Naruto has been cut off from the advantages of the clans and thus must fight for everything. Kinda like Sakura and Kurenai (no one know where they’ve come from).

  11. Minato- Hasn’t been said where’s he’s from yet.
    Kushina- Left her village
    Naruto- Dead parents, orphaned

    Go purely luck kid with great guts and is the child of prophecy ^_^!!

  12. This theory is a bit of a stretch for me because for your timeline to work Jiraiya and Tsunade had to have been around 13/14 years old when the deed was done. The reason i say this is because how many of the other children at this age in the story have even hinted at sex? I mean there has been plenty of innocent crush scenarios going on, but what evidence is there that it would have progressed further?

    Also I dont think that naruto and Tsunade’s little brother look all that much a like. Their eyes and shape of the face aren’t that similar. Yahiko also had similar hair to naruto/jiraiya/minato, does that mean they are all related?

  13. There is no circumstance I see that Tsunade gives her child up for adoption. She’s not Oro (heartless), I just can’t see that happening no matter what.

  14. The manga does make a point to say that Kushina is not from Konoha. Which leaves me to believe that Minato is.

  15. HERE is an age timeline using the Naruto source books.

  16. @ Alec: Okay, let’s look at descendency and fighting styles: RASENGAN. Kakashi can do it, thanks to sharingan, but it took a hell of a lot out of him when he did. ONLY Minato, Jiraiya and Naruto can do that more than once…it’s not a kekkei genkai or Kakashi wouldn’t be able to copy it…but I’m thinking it might get there.

    The frog summoning. Naruto’s 5th on the scroll, after Minato and Jiraiya. Starting to look like a family thing to me when you add in the rasengan.

    Space time…I need some manga references to this (issues). My understanding is that Minato isn’t actually warping space-time but moving very, very fast–like summoning and seals. And we know he was VERY good at those. That was why he gave Kakashi (and the front line soldiers) the sooper special kunai–there was a seal to be worked–combine it with kage bunshin and I think you’ve got something that looks like space time. Hell, who knows, maybe kage bunshin are a space time justsu.

    Jiraiya’s pedigree is damn near impossible to determine and that part was pure riff and nonsense (you’re right there are too many holes). But no one else comes without clan baggage: Jiraiya, Minato and Naruto–and yet they have very similar skills.

    I think this breaks down when you start putting Tsunade in the mix…

  17. The similarities in techniques is kinda moot as all the ones we’ve seen can be taught. Just because no one else uses Rasengan only means that no one else has been taught how to do it.

  18. Remember that the third was their sensei, you don’t think he would know about it if Jiraiya got Tsunade pregnant, and lets hear your proof.

  19. Minato was trained in Konoha, so yeah, he’s from Konoha. His parents could be foreign nin, possibly…but…seems like somebody would mention that if it were true. Would the village accept a foreign nin as Hokage? Just wondering…

    Timelines–excellent poster, Jeremiah. And may be the breeze that tumbles the house of cards. I do wonder at Minato/Kushina at 36-40 when the pics of them above (from Jiraiya’s flashback) make them look like they’re all of about 18–and wonder when the sourcebook was put together (before J-man’s demise or after?).

  20. OH! I get it…36-40 is how old Minato and Kushina would be if they were *still* alive. Just like Rin is assumed to be Kakashi’s age…so right. This means, Minato and Kushina were (using 13 for Naruto’s age at series start and 16 for Shippuuden): 23 to 25 when Naruto was born.

  21. Only becasue they have all taught eachother. Jiraya taught them both toad summoning, and the fourth taught Jiraya the rasengan, who eventually taught it to Naruto. Now that’s different from the other major clans from Konoha (shiki’s, chji’s, ino’s, kiba’s, shino’s, hyuga’s), in which all the descendants have similar moves to there parents. So i will accept an informal clan thing, but a real family line, no not now based on what we’ve got. If things change so be it but right now, those people are not related by direct blood

  22. @kingcam: I’m saying the Third kept a lot of secrets, and that maybe (just maybe) he isn’t that nice of a guy. Recent info (about Oro’s ‘work’ and Itachi’s manipulation) has made me think twice about the old man.

    FREX: Sarutobi found out what Oro was up to and didn’t kill him. Oro tells Anko the the Third knows all about the curse mark experiments (anime, Anko flashback, episode 179).

    Jiraiya’s flashback about Oro’s forbidden crap has J-man at (what appears to be) a *different* raid (WTF?!) than the one Sarutobi remembers way back in manga 120ish?–and Sarutobi doesn’t admit much to Jiraiya either way in that particular confrontation.

  23. @ Alec: Okay, so let’s take Shikamaru and Shikaku. Shikamaru admits his dad’s teaching him shadow strangle bind (Sasuke retrieval arc). So, if it’s just a matter of teaching, then theoretically, Chouji could have sat in on those lessons and picked it up as well? Or is there something more to it?

    Are you saying just anyone has the latent ability to make a rasengan? They just need to be taught how? If I recall, there wasn’t much teaching being done by Jiraiya…just a lot of carousing and a nod in the right direction.

  24. If the third wasn’t a good man that would be some Dumbledore s***.

  25. here is another one konohamaru resembles kakashi. what if the 3rd is the white fangs brother. we all know asuma is komohamaru’s uncle who is his papa then.

    then again Kakashi’s surname is Hatake. Im pretty sure the key link to your puzzle is KONOHAMARU. find out who his parents are.

  26. ibikiteishi’s theory is wrong and here are my reasons (don’t forget that this is a shounen so everything is possible):
    -Strength only comes from clans: Untrue. Two of the sannins come from a “normal” family not from some shinobi clan. The persons I’m talking about are Jiraiya and Orochimaru. Furthermore, Sakura comes from a regular family just like Shizune (or so we can assume). Of course the fourth himself is no offspring from some Überclan, at least he’s not portraited as such. Other notable shinobis from “normal” descendance are: Pain with which I mean the Rin’negan doesn’t appear in one particular clan otherwise we would have heard about it, Maito Gai, Rock Lee, Kurenai etc.

    -Tsunade is Naruto’s granny: Like said, the ages simply don’t match. But let’s assume Tsunade is indeed his granny. Then surely Jiraiya can’t be his grandfather. That would make the name Uzumaki, which I believe is a great shinobi clan specialised in wind-manipulation jutsus, obsolete. It’s not like Tsuande did the deed with J-man and then pretended the kid was an Uzumaki. Yes, J-man can have a relationship with someone and have a few bastard kids. That’s not abnormal. But the MOTHER is always certain the child is hers. I just don’t see Tsunade giving up on her own child (taking away her child at bird seems very unlikely too). Not only is that contrary to her character but also to the image the mangaka wants to give from hokage’s = people that care about everyone and are ineherently good (one of the reasons why Oro couldn’t become hokage). So I pretty much showed that Tsunade nor Jiraiya can be Naruto’s ancestors.

    -Jiraija is Minato’s father: Except for the age mismatch, it could be true. In the world of manga this would be unlikely though. J-man is pretty easy going so his child should inherit some of his bad habits, that’s how it goes in manga. Naruto is like his mother but looks like his father. Minato doesn’t look like Jiraiya and doesn’t have his attitude either. So, I’d say it’s pretty unlikely Minato is indeed Jiraiya’s son.

  27. In terms of character, Itachi is the best, we know everything about him yet we know nothing.

    we know his brother, his best friend, his parents, his level of skill..yet we still no have no clue of his purpose and what he was trying achieve.

    Definetly something to do with Madara, Pain & Orichamaru, the 3rd, Kakashi,Elders he is the key really isnt he? I dont think knowing about Naruto’s parents or the 4th hokage is important.

    Itachi & Orchimaru are the key. Both of them have a hell lot of information. I am sure Itachi would know about the 4th hokage and they would have worked together..

  28. I agree with you.

  29. its a good theory but wouldnt somebody notice that tsunade was pregnant?

  30. also @ losers the fourth was dead when itachi became anbu… he was probably like just becoming chunin when minato sealed the fox in naruto

  31. @ Nighthawk: Jiraiya and Oro are unknowns, and there may (or may not be) story to be revealed there. We know relatively little about the shinobi of Sarutobi’s generation so we can’t say who was/wasn’t from shinobi clans. BUT of all known clan/not clans, good point bringing up Sakura. Her parents are alive, but seem to be non-shinobi. Perhaps this accounts for her slow blooming process? She didn’t have shinobi mentors at home? But she is the one other character without a clan past I can think of. Are there others we are missing? Dan is Shizune’s uncle, so, shinobi family. The others you mention…there is no evidence one way or another, but Sakura is an interesting case.

    Tsunade is old enough to be Naruto’s grandma. I’m not going to say it again. Go do the math yourself.

    Uzumaki is Kushina’s name; we know very little about it. Like Kiba, Naruto has his mother’s clan’s name. Minato’s last name is Namikaze, and we have no idea where it came from (yet), but given the histories of the other Hokages it stands to reason that there is a story there and that it is important. If no one will talk about it…then the secrecy becomes notable, doesn’t it?

    What I keep hearing here is: no way Tsunade’s Minato’s mom–she was too young. Followed by, someone had to know and she’d never give up her kid. If you were a jounin of her caliber, with her pedigree and 14–do you think her elders would have allowed her to ‘retire’ out of the field to raise a baby?

    Personally, I think the Tsunade connection is the weakest bit of this nonsense, but her age doesn’t make it impossible. Hiding a pregnancy by sending the teenage mom away until she give birth is completely plausible–given the age. And having the baby adopted by someone else so she can realize her full potential would also be believable–and also would have nothing to do with what the girl-mom wanted.

    Meh. I’m not going to go on and on, because I do know of evidence that prevents the Tsunade part from being true–as I’ve said before. I’m just pointing out that these arguments don’t implode the theory.

    There is no age mismatch. 14 is plenty old enough to be physically capable of sharing DNA. Or is he old enough to be a jounin (hired killer, assassin on command) and too young to get it up?

  32. haha we made the same points basically on both posts yours has a little more detail though nice 🙂

  33. @renzy: tag team awesomeness!!!! (jk nighthawk, you made some good points and make an excellent sparring partner.)

  34. Yeah, so what’s your proof, i wuld actually like to hear it.

  35. 14 is plenty old enough to be physically capable of sharing DNA. Or is he old enough to be a jounin (hired killer, assassin on command) and too young to get it up?

    What exactly does Tsunade need to “get it up” ?

    ^^

  36. @Nighhawk…after I wiped up the cola off my keyboard. That was a reference to the Jiraiya comment last para of your post…and then my computer barfed.

    I think Jiraiya and Minato look a lot alike.

    Don’t think we know enough about Minato to say whether he was like Jiraiya or not, but you brought up a really good point. Tsunade does say something to the effect of (when she first meets Naruto in the bar): who is this kid? he’s even worse than you last apprentice. To me, that means Minato had a brash streak just like Jiraiya and Naruto, we’ve just been shown Saint Minato, martyr, savior, hero.

  37. @kingcam: later, I promise.

  38. its possible tsunade was raped by the third haha

  39. Haha, ok I’ll be patient. And you make a good point about Tsunades comment. But it would also be a wierd thing to say about her own son if the theory was true. Maybe Jiraiya had another apprentice before Naruto and after Minato.

  40. pain is the other apprentice duh

  41. No, the three ninja that Jiraiya trained Konan, Nagato, and whatever the other ones name were came before Minato, in the second ninja war. Minato was in the third.

  42. yahiko was the third one and thts whos body is god realm

  43. nice…..

  44. Are you sure they were around 50? Cause I do remember something like that but if that’s true and they were around 13 years old when you know… that would kind of make things a little ridiculous and I think Dattebayou wouldn’t have created something that far fetched, you know what I mean?

  45. In reference to the question of whether or not they were old enough I’d like to share a little known fact…

    Patrick Swayze fathered over 50 children before he was born because he was THAT fertile.

  46. @ Sasuke – I have no idea what you mean because Dattebayo is a fansub website. Shonen Jump and Kishimoto create Naruto…

  47. Actually Jeremiah, the Swayze has been fathering children since before his own great-great-great grandfather was conceived, that’s just how amazing he is.

  48. Kabuto is another mystery as well. No one knows who he is and how he can be so powerful.

    Except Orichamaru..

  49. My next post: Patrick Swayze is his own grandpa!!!!!!!! Because, yes, he is an inter-dimensional time-space stud.

  50. Maybe Yahiko is Jiraiya’s other illegitimate son?

  51. they showed when jiraiya and yahiko met… and in a ninja its plausable to have kids at 14 seeing as how you could die any day

  52. If jiraya is Yahiko’s father, then seeing how awesome yahiko is, it probably made the J man sterile to have such an awesome son.

  53. how does that make sense? haha

  54. @Alec – that would be some space time jutsu, maybe that’s what god power means. (‘nad-shriveling jutsu. katsu!)

  55. omg…you are correct…tsunade did seem to blush when she was asking about naruto in the bar….or maybe she just had too much drinks….LOL funniest theory i have heard so far….

  56. ok lets see… Jiraya is son of nidaime…. Tsunade is grandaughter of the first… And they are parents of minato… Its like jiraya doing his nephew… Groosss

  57. if jiraiya was the seconds son he would be old as hell

  58. i do not believe that jman was the seconds son because jman has always had white hair from the start and we are given no last name i think it is more likely that kakashi is related to the second

  59. that would probably be a good guess because both him and his father were strong ninja im sure they have a history

  60. @renzy about Nidamie being old as hell: welllll…according to the time lines it’s plausible, just means the Nidaime would have to have been an active playa into his 40’s and 50s. It could be. (but your comment made me laugh)

  61. @biradical: we aren’t given clan names with any of the sannin. Heck, do we even know the clan names for the first and second? I seem to recall that maybe it was mentioned once, talking about the origins of Konoha. We should ask Alec…

    Might also help to learn what leads to a clan taking a new name in traditional Japan. That’s probably going to be more informative about how Konoha’s “royalty” relate. Alec and I disagree about the importance of clan relationships to the story, but I think we’re both right: they are important now but will be less important when Naruto does his thing.

  62. the originals were uchiha and i believe the name was senju im not sure though i hafta look it up lol

  63. it was senju heres a link —> http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/399/01/

  64. also i was thinking if like combinations of elements like ice are bloodline limits shouldnt tsunade along with most of the village be able to use wood elements seeing most of them are senju? also who was it that was said to have control over all of the beasts? i thought it was the first but in 399/10-11 the kyuubi is being used against him… is it possible that after he defeated madara this is when he gained control of the last of his collection of the beasts?… and then the attack on konoha would have been a freak accident… and how did the first and second die? we know all about the third and fourth and supposedly they all died nobley for the village so why dont we here about them?

  65. @ ibiki and renzy – the first hokage was from the Senju clan fo sho.

  66. Just some side notes:

    Its also funny that someone on another post said that only an Uchiha can beat an Uchiha. This obviously isn’t true as a Senju defeated the greatest Uchiha (Madara) in a one on one fight at the valley of ends.

    Tsunade is a direct decendant of Senju blood.

    ^_^

  67. lol i went back and watched shippuuden 32 and only part of deidaras arm was sucked into the hole thats why they found his ring because only the elbow was hit by kakashis technique

  68. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/168/17/ ;— ok right there is oro still with akatsuki?

    also…
    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/168/19/ ;— that lucky bastard lol

  69. And yet Tsunade isn’t known by that name? Maybe she’s related to Senju through her mom? Or the Saqnnin have elevated above clan status.

    I think it ws the First that had the ability to control all the tails, but it isn’t clearly said (and I can’t remember where I got the info…anime p’haps?). It’s explained really vaguely like maybe the 1st had control over the demons, but possibly only with Uchiha’s help. Why else would you give them ALL away?

  70. if you read during the gaara arc it says it was the first i am not exactly sure which one though but second thought i actually did see it in thhe manga… sasoris g-ma was talking about it so idk if it is in the manga

  71. also @ ibi they said most of konoha is direct desendants of what was the senju clan and they all have different names… also do we ever learn tsunades last name

  72. the only reason why the first was able to create wood was because he was the only one to experiment and focus on water and earth. This could mean that the senju have the main attribute of water and earth because the second was good with water and this could be because he focused on using water techniques.

  73. the first has been the only one ever to be able to use wood … the sharingan itself is a technique only a few uchiha ever posses (though it doesn’t seem like it), so the wood would be even rarer.

    Remember that the uchiha complex took up like half of the village (or so it seemed) and most people couldn’t use the sharingan and some weren’t even ninjas, but they did carry the genetics to spread the return of the sharingan which is why itachi wiped everyone out, even those who probably didn’t have it.

  74. The 1st had the ability to control the Kyuubi as pets..it doesnt mean others cant control..

    why the rapper dude controls his. The 1st collected them all and distributed them all to make things even for the war..

    Can I ask what was the cause of the 3rd ninja war – the one in kakashi gaiden? There was like 3 or 4 wars rite?

  75. But what I was wondering, because it is talked about SO vaguely, is whether the 1st truly controlled the tailed beasts or whether more of that control was thanks to his best buddy Madara?

    And then–I’m having a hard time seeing why you would give away (even as a peace offering) the ninja equivalent of a nuclear bomb?

  76. There is a chapter that isn’t vague about these subjects. 1st had control over all the beasts as apposed to the 8 tails who controls only his own, but I see what you are saying, it is possible to control them.

    He did give them out as somekind of something to make everyone happy. I’ve got to go to class but I’ll try to find it later or if LastScorpion comes on later, he has a photographic memory and he will just tell us which page and chapters they are. I think it is in one of the Gaara arcs as discussed above.

    20 awesomeness points to whoever links the pages before Scorpion or I do ^_^

  77. is it possible he spread them not only for peace but also so madara couldnt get his hands on them?

  78. Since he’s dead we may never know but that wasn’t the original reason given. But its possible.

  79. Yeah I think I know the page that they talk about the tailed beasts hold on a sec.

  80. hmmm it was not in the chapter I thought it was in, if i remember I let you know. ^_^

  81. Yeah I cnt think of when they said that stuff about the first, but they did not say much about it.

  82. But in the chapter they said that the first had them under control with that crystal naruto has around his neck. I am still not sure how madara got the ninetails.

  83. Madara didn’t “get” the Ninetails, he just unleashed it.
    Ninetails just went ape shit after that.

  84. No he had the ninetails under his power when vs the first, and the ninetails said he hates madara when sasuke stoped it from takeing over naruto.

  85. So it was Ninetails/Madara vs the first and he still lost?!

    Senju represent.

    The rule should be if an Uchiha fights a Senju by himself he should try to escape by any means necassary.

  86. killer bee doesn’t control his beast, it works with him, they are equals… the first could control and make them do what he wanted, just like madara could control the nine-tails…
    first used the crystal while madara ended up with the ninetails somehow, they will in all likely hood mention how each got the beasts to begin with.

  87. Well Killer Bee definantly seems in control of his beast, unlike Naruto who up to this point has absolutely no control over his, even when it doesn’t fully come out like Killer Bee’s.

  88. well i think madara controlled the nine tails with genjutsu like when sasuke controlled manda to escape deidara… also the first could control the kyuubi like how yamato did in narutos training

  89. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/297/09/ <— i found what you were looking for

  90. Forgot about that. Good point.

  91. Thx lastscorpion, some of the things said were *exactly* what I had in mind. And I do remember the coverage of the first’s control as being undefined enough that it really could have been a team effort (especially with the Madara/9tails sharingan thing and the things the Kyuubi said).

    You see, the giving away of the beasts–we don’t specifically know whent that happened in relationship to the valley of the end battle. Before or after? Were they given before, spurring the argument? Or were they given after, as a stop gap to give the other nin-villages defense against Madara an the 9-tails? I don’t buy that they were only peace offereings–it doesn’t make political sense.

  92. i think madara stole the kyuubi and used him against the first and when the first defeated him he probably gave them all away saying they were peace offerings but really it was so madara couldnt get his hands on them again… there was probably some touching moment at the end of the fight causing the first to let madara live but he took one of his eyes and somehow downgraded the other one lol

  93. am i bringing back the dead? sorry if i am….
    but the blushing of jiraiya and tsunade (in that “i would have bragged about him all the time” picture) is due to alcohol….

  94. Maybe she is just guilty because she thinks she could help the Kiubbi host from such live…maybe it just reminds her of her little brother…maybe she made a pact with Minato,she and Jiraya.

    I just think that cousins stuff is discusting…why can´t Naruto and Minato be just naturally gifted?

  95. again….that’s because of the sake (alcohol…) as far as i remember, jiraiya insisted on a drink before he revealed any more info on akatsuki…and tsunade was hesitant at first but later agreed(when she saw there was no other option) and that’s the cause she’s blushing on the picture….

    p.s. this one isn’t for Ibiki….this one just to make “real” understand the situation and take the joke more lightly….

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