Danzo = Madara + Kushina Theories + Discussion

Naruto Manga 407 <Spoiler> <Raw> <Translation>

Click the word translation above to read the online sleepy fans translation of Naruto Manga 407 entitled Asking Naruto.


I put a few Links to manga pages relevant to some of the Naruto Manga being discusssed in this post and previous posts below (P.S. I’ve lost alot of the important manga we had from the previous blog so if any one thinks of some of the others please comment and I’ll add them.):

For manga related to the rarely discussed Naruto’s mother Kushina click HERE and HERE.

For two manga pages that are being directly discussed about Pein’s weakness click HERE and HERE.

HERE, HERE and HERE is the manga being discussed in the comments about Pain’s bodies being an illusion.

HERE is a link to a site that defines the Rinnegan.

HERE is the link to the manga as an example of what Pain might be doing as far as using dead bodies as discussed in the comments.

HERE is the link for a page of the manga that lends to the Ying and Yang Naruto and Pain theories, this is just one there are others.

HERE and HERE are very slight signs of a bond that still may exist between Naruto and Sasuke. (He cares that he hasn’t been caught yet and had a bridge named after him…that has to count for something, right?) 🙂

Hey everyone,

Another week has come and we all anxiously await the new issue of Naruto manga 407.  The last two weeks have been really boring but with the new chapter entitled “The Solution” we should have some resolution on Pain’s weakness.  We may also get some info on what Pain’s Rennegan actually does.

Last week we had some major minor frustration when all our comments were erased by a WordPress glitch. We were able to recover the post but we lost all comments. Sorry to everyone who put up some great theories and arguements last week but this week we can start fresh and the comments section is a clean slate so feel free to post any thoughts but be prepared to have them disected.  Usually if someone sites a specific incident in the manga I will post a link on the main page so that everyone can evaluate it.

It wasn’t all frustration last week though.  We had over 400+ submissions for last weeks survey and some awesome responses.  The final results will be posted later today and this weeks survey is all ready to go so you should see some of the better early results start coming in from that as well… That’s about all I can think of for now but by now you all should know how this works.  I’ll be updating until the release of the new manga and posting and disecting the spoiler scripts with you guys as usual so feel free to click on the pic to take the new survey this week and lets get some good new thoughts on the characters and thoughts on the direction of manga out there.

Ja mata

P.S.  We had 5,500 hits in one day last Thursday smashing our old record of 4000 making it the fastest growing site on WordPress!  Thanks again to everyone who participates and comments.  I only write half the stuff on this site, you guys are the authors of all the good theories and stuff so keep it coming 🙂 

For everyone that hasn’t read last weeks manga click on the pic below.



This is the link to the main page you would want to book mark:


If you like to comment then you should sign up HERE so that you can have a user name and icon.


~ by 火影 千手 iareawesomeness on July 1, 2008.

100 Responses to “Danzo = Madara + Kushina Theories + Discussion”

  1. […] Naruto Manga 407 spoiler updates + Bring them back! Naruto Manga 407 Hey everyone, [image] […]

  2. Continuing from the other post…I’d really like to see Naruto show something from training with Jiraiya…anything. That observation from the other post on Naruto’s second element is cool…it seems so obvious!

    Awesome blog! Thanks for making it.

  3. It is more like kakashi will have his left eye taken out by pain and
    all most dead but saved at the last moment and for naruto wall we all will have to what and see

  4. […] Naruto Manga 407 spoiler updates + Bring them back! […]

  5. please read my spoiler thoughts. i have made a lot of crazy predictions in the past and got laughed at…… but some of them came true

  6. OK so I WAS the first person to predict that Naruto was the “DESTINED CHILD” while everyone was saying that it was pain I disagreed and basically got laughed at! Here’s whats going to happen, I make bold predictions but only because SOME of them actually come true…….

    I’m not going to even mention the ones already stated that r going to obviously happen like the HAWK and KONOHA battle….

    First off. Kakashi WILL become Hokage, thats a fact. Its going to happen after Tsunade is killed in battle protecting Konoha.

    Second. Madara is manipulating the truth with Sasuke to try to get him on Akatsukis side. Mostly about Itachi and I guarantee that Sasuke is going to turn on Madara (I cant predict WHO will kill Madara though.

    Third. There will most definately be another time skip (sigh). Naruto is way too young and immature to become Hokage now! The skip will occur after the Akatsuki/Konoha/Hawk battle. Naruto Will once again leave Konoha to train to become A Sannin.

    Fourth. The sand Village will join Konoha in their battle.

    Fifth. Naruto WILL kill Sasuke!

    Sixth. The Key that Jiraya left will tell Naruto who he really is and is going to be a warning to Konoha of the upcoming battle that will give them time to prepare.

    And finally one of the Akatsuki members will join Konohas side. And Jiraya and Itachi will be shown to have talked (planned) and the result will be what ends up being Naruto’s new power. My guess is that Jiraya went to Itachi himself. I have a feeling that Naruto will release the Kyubi but will also be able to control it. almost like a summon.

    thats all for now. please comment on what u think.

  7. I don’t see this manga coming to an end any time soon, nor do i see a time skip happening any time soon. There are just too many loose ends.

    first of all, there is the issue of the other tailed beasts. I think there will be alot more happening that will involve them. We will no doubt eventually see all of them in action at some time or another. S

    econdly there is the kyuubi. i have a feeling we are going to learn alot more about him and his past, as well as a conclusion about what will happen with him and naruto. (eg will he escape, forcing naruto to battle with him, or maybe he and naruto will combine into one beign.) not to mention the whole destined child thing. If he is meant to change the world, then i doubt that a battle with Hawk and Konoha will be the finishing point of the story.

    Also what about Orochimaru. His cells are apart of Kabuto, and i doubt we have seen the last of his interference.

    Then there is the Purpose of the statue holding the tailed beasts. Is it the construct of an ultimate weapon. Will Naruto be force (with the Kyuubis help) to face off against all the other tailed beasts.

    Not to mention Naruto learning about his father, mother and their history.

    No, there is to much to do before the end is even near.

  8. inseino – The reason your theories weren’t posted is because we’ve been talking about all of those theories already. I’m not going to bash your theories because they don’t really go out on a limb.

    Even your craziest theories have been talked about…I’m not sure how long you’ve been reading this blog but one of the main discussions last week was the whole Kisame being tight with Itachi and possible allies with Konoha.

    To say you were the first to predict Naruto as a destined child is a bold statement. Kinda like Al Gore saying he invented the internet…

    You’re also not one of the people that followed me from my last Naruto blog over to this one because myself and many others predicted that Itachi story would make Sasuke anti Konoha, many people called that.

    It’s great to hear your theories so keep it coming but just ease up on the I AM THE ALL KNOWING stuff… it kinda pisses people off.

    If you’ve read this blog at all over the past month or read my blog before coming to WordPress you know our favorite stuff is all ways backed up with manga… So like in my previous blog when I linked Itachi’s converstation with Naruto in the forest while madara was telling his story and I said we need to talk about this particular manga because something was going on here and everyone started discussing the posssibilities way before they actually flashed back and explained that Itachi gave him half his powers.

    I’m going to repost on the front discussion board some recently talked about subject manga posts so that everyone is up to date again on what some people have questioned in previous posts since it seems we’ve picked up some new readers recently. If anyone has any other manga chapters/pages they think are really important then just bring them up here and I’ll link them.

  9. Could this new manga lend to the theory that Jiraiya is alive? I was thinking that if he did die that he would become the new body in Pain’s army. The scans show that it is a female who replaced the last body. Interesting…

    Or am I just being blinded by my hope that Jiraiya is alive and that this actually means nothing?

  10. I so agree that Danzu is Madara, and when they commence the attack on the village of Konoha that Sai will recognize Danzo as Madara and reveal the truth about Madara and his plans, which will ultimately lead to Konoha developing a gameplan to defeat the barrage on the village. Sai holds the key to knowing the plans of Danzo and future of Konohas village

  11. im also interested in why pain (nagato)and konan side with akatsuki with the purpose of destroyin konoha.. its kinda puzzle why would those two side with madara, not with jiraiya since hes one of the sanin had trained them. i want a history about this… and how the hell nagato become pein. and how madara manipulated those two (pein and konan).

    also,i think madara twisted some words on the itachi story to convince sasuke to side with him. i have doubts what madara said to sasuke is all the truth. however, sasuke is no fool to fall for madara words, he would first confirm this story from the elders himself (think about it, if you were on sasuke position, would you believe on a random uchiha about your bro, itachi,past story wo confirming it by yourself). right now, what sasuke is doing is playin along with madara plans, and observing madara actions and taking some notes what madara’s powers are and finding the whole truth. because (i believe) sasuke would fight madara one of these comming mangas.

    another reason why sasuke wont beleive madara words: the jutsu that itachi left with sasuke to kill madara (yeah i know that didnt work.) do you really think sasuke wont question himself why would his bro, itachi, did that for… one big reason why sasuke wont believe or allied with madara…. he is the one who help to massacre the uchihas.

  12. Well going by this script it looks as if my prediction pain’s bodys are illusions. When you look at ch 381 pg 9, Nagato has never seen that ninja so how could it be one of his bodies. All the ninja that where part of pain Jiraiya had seen them all at some point. Also I dont think that nagato is the one behind the rinnegan if you look at ch 381 pg 6 it shows that what pain was saying sounds nothing like nagato. so madara has the rinnegan in his other eye or it is Yahiko that has the rinnegan. Also what pain could be doing that jitsu that he did when kisame and itachi where sent out to slow the leaf ninjas down (ch 225 pg 13)

  13. I linked the first two on the front page. Check that list one though, I’m not sure if that is the correct ch/pg mark.

  14. One thing that no one seems to notice is that naruto has not had a real fight since the time skip. vs sasuke got hit by electric shock could not move. Vs itachi was in genjitsu then did a oodama rasengan. vs deidra got angy hit him a few times and then went to deomon fox mode. vs orochimaru went stright in to demon fox mode. And vs Kakuzu al he did was his new Rasenshuriken and it eas over. But naruto has never had a real long fight with more then one move.

  15. yeah my bad the last one was not ch 225 but ch 255*

  16. i have many comments in reply to these various theories but that would take to long and would be pointless, so i will just make my own personal predictions.
    prediction one is pretty random and made up abruptly after see the spoiler pictures.its just sorta far fetched but maybe the new body(if the spoiler pictures are correct) is of narutos mother. you know, some extra spice to piss naruto off when they meet. it kinda goes into the idea from a previous post( i forget who posted it)of the six peins being all illusions brought to physical reality. maybe part of the renengans powers is to take mental pictures in a persons mind and make physical manifestations of the pictures.a physical manifest of a past memory which would explain why all the shinobi that were fighting jaraiya where shinobis of his past. perhaps they will change with every new shinobi pein fights with.

    prediction two is itachis power that was given to naruto.
    i believe that the power that was given to naruto was itachis memory of certain events like encounters with madara and the whole uchiha massacre. i believe that when naruto sees sasuke something will trigger in side and naruto will be able to use gengustu on sasuke showing him the true events. sasuke will have no reason to deny narutso gengustu because in the back of his mind he already knows that madara is probably not telling him the whole truth.e.i amarustu being planted in his eye to be triggered when he say madaras sharigan. so this gengustu will just be the tipping of the scale that sasuke needed to make his decision about madara. hopefully with that information that naruto brings sasuke will turn on madara and start fighting for the good guy once again. i really dont see a problem for his hawk group to change sides except suiguste or whatever his name is. he seems the only one who is evil at heart and might not want to switch sides.

  17. I can tell you that it wont be narutos mother because she died when naruto was born, therefore naruto has no memories of his mother and he would not know he is fighting her. Well that is a very good prediction on itachis power that he gave to naruto and could be right. Only one thing was wrong with the second one and it was that Suigetsu would not turn. Although Suigetsu is evil at heart he realy wants to kill kisame and already tried to turn ans fight them.

  18. I believe that Pain is truly one person splitting his spirit into six different host bodies. Much as each Pain seemed to have one power. However, since the body is already dead and the soul is controlling the body (think of Kabuto’s dead soul control technique in chapter 89 pg 08 just for a longer period of time) the body can be revived by other Pain’s. The reason the other one Jiraya killed was not revived is simply he was in a barrier and cut off from the other Pain’s, and once killed, the body was immediately moved from the area, making it impossible to revive. However it seems once the body dies the soul leaves until put back by another pain. if you go to http://www.leafninja.com and look under doujutsu the Rin’negan is translated as transmigration, which is the word explaining a soul passing into another body. The piercings are only a tool used to keep the soul on the body. Thus making it once you kill a Pain body you must either destroy it or keep it clear of other bodies to stop them from reviving. Thus making it seem, once you kill five Pain’s, the soul will be all in one body making that the only time you can truly kill pain. And this is speculation, if one Pain escapes, he can come back again with five new bodies making him near immortal.

  19. 1) When the new manga is released I will put a picture of the new Pain body next to Naruto’s mother for a comparison and discussion.

    2) I’ll link the exact page for the doujutsu translation that Alec was talking about. I lreally like that site but sometimes they state theory as fact so we just need to tread lightly when baseing theories off of fan sites rather than the manga.

    3)I’ll add that last link to Scorpions thought and the other ALec’s manga reference.

    I’ve been thinking Naruto’s mother would become a big part of this for some time now and you guys know I also think there is a slim chance that Pain is Naruto’s brother or at least half brother. So the new body possibly being Naruto’s mother…

  20. Suigetsu isn’t really evil or good. He seems to be out for himself since he wants to just kill and collect the swords of the masters from his country.

  21. Also, for the record I don’t think Madara is Danzo BUT it is a solid and very possible theory.

  22. Hey, does anyone know what the 6th elemental chakra is? On page 11 of 375 Jiraya mentions six chakra types that Nagato has, yet during Naruto’s training with Kakashi, it says there is only five types. I’m just wondering if I missed something, or I’ll just have to wait for the manga to explain it.

  23. Well suigetsu is a little evil but not very evil just look at ch 351 pg 3. Also if you where looking for something that shows sasuke still has a bond with naruto just take a look at ch 347 pg 13. And as you guys said it very well could be narutos mother but it would not make much sense because naruto has never met his mother. But it could be narutos mother, if somehow naruto was told of his mother by someone or had a picture of her.

  24. Thats true?? If madara really danzou why he didn’t take sasuke early, or take the kyuubi early and get the plan???. But Why Madara know all about itachi and his secret mission from the Third hokage ???? Continue your Post Dude….

  25. Yeah i think that you will have to wait for the manga to explain about the elemental chakra. If i where to take a guess i would say that the sixth elemental chakra plays a part or is the time/space jitsu. Remember the fourth was able to do space/time jitsu without a sharingan.

  26. After that last post i just started to think of a better explanation for the sixth chakra. The sixth chakra type could be medical jitsu. This way nagato could have transplanted his eyes into another person. It also explains how pain could heal his bodies so fast after they where hurt.

  27. Something I’d like to bring up about the whole Danzo being Madara theory…Danzo ordered Sai to assasinate Sasuke…This both takes away from the theory that Dazo is Madara and also adds to it depending on how you look at it:

    1) Why would Madara who seems like he really wants Sasuke as an ally, want to have him killed.

    2) If Sasuke was planning on killing Itachi then it would make sense that Danzo would put a hit on Sasuke since Itachi was an agent of Root.

  28. IF, and thats a big IF, Kushina is the new Pain body then it would be a huge impact whether or not Naruto has seen her or knows what she looks like.

    Someone important from Konoha would recognize her during the invasion of Konoha and be like “should I tell him or should you tell him?” HAHA!

    Tsunade to Naruto = “Ummmmm Naruto, I hate to tell you this but that person over there that you are about to fight…thats your mom…” Uncomfortable 😉

  29. I agree that the new body of Pain could be naruto’s mother. That was what I thought the first time I saw the spoiler pick. Some have been saying it doesn’t make sense, but think about it, it looks like to defeat Pain, they have to kill ALL the bodies. Well does anybody here think it would be easy to kill someone if you know its your mother, especially for naruto who has only EVER wanted a family? Some say he wont recognize her, well I’m sure Tsunade, Kakashi, or Elders would. Also, I’m sure Pain would tell naruto and to add insult mention that Konoha has known all along. Talk about pissing naruto off, can anybody say 5, 6, or 7 tailed states

  30. I hope it is Kushina, that would make for some good Manga.

    I also, thought of something else that kinda brings the Danzo=Madara theories down. Why would Itachi make the black flame come out when Sasuke looked at his face? Danzo is the leader of Root, Itachi served Root (According to Madara) so why would he do that to the person (group) he’s devoted his life to.

    I’m also not sure of the exact theory of Danzo=Madara that people are coming up with but wouldn’t someone from Konaha know that Danzo is Madara. There is a big freakin statue of him in the valley of ends so they know what he looks like.

    I don’t think people would walk up to him and be like…”hey you kinda look like…” and Danzo/Madara would be all “No, no I’m not, I get that all the time.” Riiiiight.

    I’m just not buying it. Someone who thinks this theory is correct can try to change my mind.

  31. the only way you could confirm if its naruto’s mom is whether the pain’s body has the whirlpool headband. but it seems its hard to see on these blurry scans. anyway, who the hell knows the whirlpool headband here… i havent see any ninja wwearing it. or if i do remember you know the ninjas that kill on chuunin exam, are they whirlpool ninjas?

  32. if i do remember you know the ninjas that gaara kill on chuunin exam, are they whirlpool ninjas?*

  33. Ok lets say the new pain body is narutos mother (I will say it can happen it looks a little like her) and Tsunade, Kakashi, or Elders know that it is her. Why would they tell naruto that it is his mother if they know it could make him go crazy and turn into the demon fox. The only way i could see him knowing is if pain tells him. Also I dont think pain has the real body of narutos mother but it could be somekind of trick that pain has. What are the odds that pain found all the ninja that jaryia has seen before. And the danzo is madara is one that sounds kind of fake. I do think that something is up with Danzo i just dont know what.

  34. whirlpool country is gone and we dont know where it was located. That is why it is called former whirlpool country. We also have no idea what the hidden village was named in the whirlpool country. When you think about it one of the Countrys names must have changed so whirlpool must be one of the countrys that have water related names.

  35. The Whirlpool doesn’t exist anymore so they havn’t shown any head band with the whirlpool logo on it to my knowledge.

  36. The hair is drawn to intentionally cover the symbol on her head band so something very suspect is going on.

  37. Time for me to speak up about Madara = Danzo.

    For starters I don’t believe anyone thinks Sai could actually kill Sasuke. Danzo sent a Root agent after him to test his Root ninja’s skill. Also he’s got an inside man to see how Sasuke and Naruto react to one another. Danzo want’s the destruction of the current Konoha (because he dislikes the first’s way). So why would he stand in the way of Orochimaru’s new body?

    Itachi dedicated his life to the village above family, friends and clan. That includes root, which I’m not sure if he was a root anbu or a regular anbu.
    The Amaratsu he implanted in Sasuke was triggered at the sight of Madara’s Sharrigan. A safe guard because most Uchiha don’t use Sharringan unless it is in battle.

    I think Sasuke is a pawn for Madara just like Itachi was. Ally today foe tommorow.

    I don’t think Leaf villagers believe Madara is still alive. It’s said that he was killed; and even if he wasn’t he should have died by natural causes by now due to age. Even Naruto being the Fourth’s son I’ve never heard anyone say “gee Naruto you look a lot like the fourth.” But with the most powerful Genjutsu at his disposal couldn’t he make everyone see what ever he wanted them to see.

    I look forward to changing the minds of all the sceptics out there!

  38. I just had a good idea do you think that the village of rain is in the whirlpool country if you look at it they only called it “that country” when talking about it, and they say it is in a civil war so that is why it is no longer whirlpool. Do you guys think narutos mother is nagatos sister? (I have nothing to back this up it is just a thought) ^_^

  39. On Pain’s power I believe he has the ability to extract information from others minds. Much like Itachi made Sasuke remeber painful scenes from his past. Pain was able to make copies of ninja that Jiraya had encountered before. As long as he has a physical body he can create a copy of another ninja that looks and performs like he wants. He can take chakra from a ninja to make copies or he can take the image from someones memory to make a copy. We already saw him make copies of Itachi and Kisame.

  40. I actually brought up the possibility of whirlpool being part of rain before but noone really reacted to it…

    Erich, you are crazy, and I like that but I’m still not sold on Danzo being Madara…it’s possible…I’m just not seeing it.

    If Danzo is Madara, does that mean he gave up one of his Sharingan?

  41. possibly. since jiraiya met nagato when he was still jounin, and thats also the time when he came back to konoha to be assign to train three ninja, minato and two unname ninja. so if you imagine the age its possible. but theres that rinnegan eye that making this theory breaks, nagato has one while kushina has none.

  42. We dont know that kushina didnot have the rinnegan the only one that would kow would be the fourth. I did not see when you brought that up must have overlooked it or forgot ^_^. and to Erich that is spot on they already showed that he could take dead bodies and make a copy of someone on to that dead bodies, That is what i was saying when i put that last manga page out that i messed up the chapter on.

  43. I think the trend we see in Sharingan is that you can only take it so far until it starts to self destruct. Then to replenish and create a more powerful Sharingan you must combine it with an equally powerful Sharingan. Once he achieved the Mangekyou his brother supposedly gave up his (possible)Mangekyou eyes. Now that he has a combined Mangekyou Sharingan the only way to replinish and grow stronger is to fnd someone else with the same eyes(Combined Mangekyou Sharingan).
    Enter Itachi the only one to achieve the Mangekyou under Madara’s tutaledge. He can’t take Itachi’s eyes because they are not on the same level of power as his. So Sasuke works twards this goal with some unplesant nudging from Itachi.
    While Sasuke will inherit the eyes from Itachi (to utimatly beat Madara). Time is passing and Madara’s eyes grow weak. I think he takes one of his own eyes and gives it to the other. At the same time he finds a random ninja to pluck out there good eye(medical jutsu transplant). So that even if his Sharingan fails he can still see.

  44. Look at ch 260 pg 16 if you want to see what i was talikg about puting someones power into a dead body. On that note this jitsu could be why the the rinnegans translation is Transmigration of the soul. It could explain how madara is still alive.

  45. Thanks lastscorpion, so far I am not to impressed with the Rinnegan’s abilities. I’m waiting for a detailed description from the manga to tell me it’s more bad-ass than I’ve seen. Even though he beat jiraya I think Konoha’s youth are up to the challenge. By the way what’s your thoughts on Danzo = Madara?

  46. On a side note I’ve seen a lot of people refering to the Byakugan as one of the 3 great eye techniques. Was it ever stated that Byakugan was one of them? Sharingan yes, Rinnegan yes but it seemed to me that just because it’s an eye technique people believed it to be one of the 3 best. Just a random side note. But if it did say it somewhere I’d like to know.

  47. Well i do think Danzo is up to something and he wants to take over the leaf, I do not think Danzo and Madara are the same person.

  48. On the byakugan as one of the 3 great eye techniques i was thinking the same thing. I think it was last week that i said i want to know the third eye technique was. Naruto might have some eye technique we all dont know about or something like that.

  49. Fair enough. Hopefully others will post questions/comments on this subject for me dispute. I’d like to make someone else a believer. That’s my ninja way

  50. I agree that Madara is possibly Danzou. The eye mystery matches up and notice how weird Danzou acts. Even in the cartoon. Madara time/space travel and Peins summoning techniques could make this possible: remember : Pein can make copies of ninjas like he did Itachi and Kisame. This would also make sense if thats the reason ( possibly ) that the new Pein is indeed Narutos mother. That would prove Madara and Pein have been working together for a while because I think Pein was too young to plot on the Fourth Hokage and plan a war to capture Naruto. The reason why he takes orders from Madara.

  51. I feel Zetsu is the missing link to all of our questions about Pein and Madara. Zetsu has something to do with all of these bodies Pein has. I dont think he would eat all of them. Maybe the Sage of six is the real Pein as someone else said … but remember Pein sommons to seal the beast. Why couldnt he seal off a jutsu into other peoples body to make Pein a god – remember its doubted he really exists so “There is no real one” makes a lot of sense.

  52. I would like to agree with Erich and lastscorpon, the Byakugan is great, but it is no where near the level of the Magneykou sharingan and supposedly what the rinnegan is capable of. However seeing as neither Neji nor Hinata has been seen doing anything relevant since shippuden started, it seems like they might be able to do something also. We haven’t even seen Lord Hyuga fight, all we saw him do was spin around, knock people into the air, and claim to be the most powerful clan in Konoha.

    I will probably contradict myself but stay with me, on that note I don’t think the Byakugan will have a single great technique like transmigration, or Amaertsu. Considering that they can see things kilometers away like they were right their, can see chakra, and have only a small blind spot within a 50 meter radius, and can see chakra. All things considered that’s pretty good.

  53. i think that kabutu with that remaining peice of orochimarus gonna play a big part soon i mean if you think about it orochi might have allot of the info on madara he might even have learned his technique for body swaping from him what if that,s how madara was able to survive so long because he found the perfect imortality justsu and orochimaru stole it and had to flee akatsuki because of it but since hes not on madara’s level so he couldn’t perfect it and could only jump different bodys

  54. and hey wtf how come i dont get a cool little thumbnail thingy instead i get stuck with this fruity pink jelly fish type blob

  55. Well i am starting to think that obito and madara might share the same body ( not so sure yet). If you look at it his personality as tobi he acts very diffrent at diffrent times and his playful personality is very much like obito. I am not 100% on all of this at all i have alot of doubts with this. and for skyhigh you dont have an account i dont think so you did not make a avatar. But if you do make one stay away from kakashi I got his face :p

  56. cool allright i gots me a account now i should get a legend as a avatar

  57. that’s right itachis the greatest most hated but its cool i still think they shoulda left him as just a straight bad guy and expanded on the beef between him and sasuke by making him win in the fight they had and eventually become the leader of akatsuki and the main bad guy

  58. oh yeah and scorpion itachis kicked kakashis ass so yeah………. my avatars better lmao

  59. Just a thought and it’s really extended off of your theories but lets say Madara can control bodies, who’s to say he has to be Danzo to “be” Danzo if you know what I mean.

    If he controlled Danzo when he had Itachi wipe out Uchiha that would match up perfectly with what Madara would do. He would want Uchiha destroyed after they turned their back on him.

    I guess you could apply the same theory to Danzo being Madara but I’m still not believing it, I need more proof 🙂

    The destruction of Uchiha through a sneaky way such as that would be text book Madara correct?

  60. kakashi could have kicked itachis ass if he was still alive. kakashis power is still growing >_< give it time. lmao

  61. Jerimiah, this is a long shot but follow me down th path of Madaras thinking. The village is operating fairly well after he is defeated by the first. He takes time to get stronger by finding out how to become imortal. Now he needs more powerful eyes so he infiltrates the village. He takes Itachi under his wing while the third is now Hokage. While he grooms Itachi he devises to unleash the Kyubi on the village. Now he is thwarted by the fourth. Remember the third and fourth all follow the same path as the first. I’m sure the second did but I’ve never read a direct referance to it.
    I’m sure Madara was not able to beat the fourth, at least not in an easy fashion so he never tried.
    Keeping on the theory that Madara wanted to destroy the firsts way; there were only 3 others at the time capable of fighting back. The 3 Sannin. Since they were all scattered why risk destroying Konoha if any of them were to come back and save it. We can exclude Orochimaru because he was after the same goal.
    This is far out there I get that but it could all be a long drawn out plan to crush all reminance of the first and his beliefs. At this point he’s immortal so why not take the time to do it right. Plus he did mention to Zetsu that his long awaited plan was finally happenng.

  62. on the danzou = madara theory… 1.danzou tried to have sasuke killed and madara wants him on his side, 2.if madara is telling the truth danzou had itachi destroy the uchiha clan, and madara goes for clan before konoha so why would he do this?

    and i know thats a big if that madara is telling the truth

  63. Itachi told Sauske that Madara helped him murder the clan. Remember the clan turned their back on Madara

  64. also the rinnegan gives all 6 bodies the 6 different perspectives… that came up in the battle between pein and jiraya idk what chapter and page exactly but its one weakness would be the shadow clones naruto uses… so i think naruto ends up killing pein

  65. and yea i wasnt really thinking about he got turned on haha

  66. and another possibility as how to beat it would be the sharingan because of its genjutsu like how the two toads jiraya used beat the first three peins… i think in the battle of hawk/akatski/konoha either naruto defeats pein by himself or sasuke comes to his defense and turns on akatski… that also would explain why pein really just kinda hung out until itachi died and sasuke became an ally… idk if anyone else noticed that though

  67. I thought Rinnegan is the most powerful of all the eye techniques? So why does Pein have to be under Madara if he could actually beat the hell out of him. Or could it be that Pein is under the genjutsu of Madara if not I think that there should be a time when Pein or Madara should part ways or even fight.

    Sasuke is already far stronger than Naruto with a lot of enhancements (mangekyou sharingan, cursed seal, Orochimaru acts like a kyuubi inside Sasuke, Orochimaru’s skills and Itachi’s amaterasu, tsukuyomi, susanoo being passed down to Sasuke)while Naruto only has his kyuubi and his new rasengan. So that means that the only hope for naruto to become stronger is the package or the “key” that Jiraiya sent to him which will unlock a special jutsu plus the other half of Itachi’s power and I was thinking that a little history will help since only a few is known about his parents (Minato and Kusgina) they might poses a special bloodline technique that eventually naruto would learn.

  68. Well john there are alot of thing wrong with what you wrote. There is something going on with the rinnegan and i dont think nagato is pain. they have the same goals right now and pain must know something about this plan madara has and that is why he is going along with it. Then there is the power that sasuke has he lost “cursed seal, Orochimaru acts like a kyuubi inside Sasuke, Orochimaru’s skills” when he was fighting Orochimaru. I do think that naruto and sasuke will fight at some point. yes naruto might have a bloodline technique actualy if you look back at the manga naruto can is not hurt very bad by the demon fox chakra but to others like sakura it is poison.

  69. Sorry this isn’t really on topic with the previous posts.

    So I was thinking about how little we really know about the Akatsuki. I figured I would post a few questions and ideas just to see what people thought about them, if there are any theories, ect. Anyone have any ideas on whether or not the rings that the Akatsuki wear actually have a significance especially as far as what finger they are placed on. I mean they have to symbolize something right?? Going along with that thought, why did Deidara get a new ring(Sei) rather than getting Orochimaru’s old ring(Sora) since that is who he was to replace supposedly…

    As far as Zetsu, he is such an unknown factor. What if he is the first one to know about Tobi/Madara/whoever you think he is? I mean they were together initiallly. If so, then how does that play into who Pein really is? Perhaps Zetsu’s purpose was to not only spy for Akatsuki missions, but to also spy within the orginization to keep everyone in line? Hopefully we will learn more about him and his abilities soon.

    Lastly, (sorry if this has been mentioned!) what was the relationship between Itachi and Kisame? They were partners for quite a few years. And from their interactions, Kisame at least seemed to respect Itachi(chp 143 pgs 7,14-15 when Kisame obeys orders from Itachi there are other cases where this happens too) and perhaps have something that might be loosely considered as a friendship (chp 142, Kisame showing concern for Itachi’s eyes and then also in chp 364 pg 4-5 when he comments on Sasuke’s “death”). It just seems weird that Kisame wouldn’t have noticed even a little bit of Itachi’s true purposes, and his dislike for Tobi. Then again maybe Itachi and Kisame didn’t really know each other at all. In chapter 404 it seems that Kisame has his own agenda(pg 2)…heaven knows what that is…I’m also curious as to why Tobi makes the comment to Kisame that “You were the closest to me, so I’m sorry for deceiving you.” (chp404 pg1) Any thoughts on that, I would love to hear them.
    Again sry if any of these things have already been discussed and I just missed it all!

  70. i wanna comment about people now are having second thought that byakugan is not one of the three powerful eyes in this series. idk if kakashi was the one who said but i heard someone said this in the chuunin exam, byakugan is more powerful than sharingan.

    i for one, believe that byakugan is one of powerful eyes for two reason: why would the CLOUD village, which is said to be one of the powerful village as konoha, be interested with it: the hinata kidnapping incident.

    what i think is happening on this series right now… sharingan and rinnegan are the hot,main focus while byakugan is being left in the dark with its secrets. just remember, byakugan powers isnt explain well not enough as sharingan. maybe the next arc after akatsuki saga. we will have chance to explore byakugan full power. how can you say it isnt powerful if youve hardly see neji using it.

  71. my second reason: too many secrets are yet to reveal, which making more interesting. i know kishi will surprise us maybe later on future manga why he included that statement “byakugan is more powerful than sharingan.”

    as for now, we cant compare byakugan to sharingan since kishi hast yet revealed any other jutsu to us.

  72. To emerald: I’ll go over this quickly because I’m about to go to bed but we on this blog have discussed very little about Zetsu if at all. He seems to be a watcher or recorder and doesn’t get involved so he doesn’t come into any theories about anything that I’ve read thus far any where. Same goes for the rings. They have been only jewlery up to this point and have not added anything to the story so that leaves a wide spectrum of possibilities if they ever get into it.

    As for Kisame. We discussed last week in detail about our different theories on him but unfortunately it was the post that WordPress accidently erased everything. My theory which got chewed up quickly by the other readers is that he has the highest probability of the Akatsuki of taking Konoha’s side just based on the fact that I would think that Kisame and Itachi were tight and he had to be in on it partly. I’d go into it further but I’m hella tired.

    The translation should be coming out any minute now so enjoy it and hopefully it will be better than the last two weeks. Sorry if this comment was weak but I’m freakin tired.

    Ja mata

  73. Well that new chapter almost confirmed my theory about pain. Also it looks as if the new ninja is not narutos mother but it is konan. As for the head bands they all have the symbol of the rian on them.

  74. well if you think about it zetsu could play a role in things to come in fact that jutsu madara was using to make attacks slip right through him could have been copied from zetsu after all zetsu makes his self slip through stone trees and all kinds of random shit when he spies

  75. and the rings i think they might use to seal the tail beasts into cause they always seem to make a fuss about recovering the rings from fallen members so maybe the have use for them

  76. One thing I have not found in any blogs so far (It may be that I just haven’t looked hard enough) is that all of the summons used in the fight against jaraiya also had Rinnegan eyes and also had piercings. When Jaraiya was hit with a spear he noticed that it had an effect on him. It would have been made by the same material as the piercings. This is pretty significant in explaining how the multiple body thing works. I would say the Peircing are most definitely a requirement (this has already been speculated) however the fact that the summons also have rinnegan eyes interests me. It illuded to the fact that the rinnedgan was a possesion technique before Jaraiya figured it out which I like, a small clue before it was revealed. If there is a limit of 6 rinnegan users I wonder if this includes summons? Perhaps the 6 only referes to 6 types of chakra and there can be many more rinnegan users linked together? I think that each of those summons must have been killed in the past as well (possibly by pein). I’m not sure if any of this is relevant but It is some information about Rinnegan that isn’t covered much,

  77. well it from that last chapter it looks like someone living can take over as a body of pain. From the chapter it looks as if konan took over as the sixth body.

  78. or he killed her?

  79. Didn’t it show her alive just previous to that? Did he just kill her and said lets head out? If so then as talked about before, Pain is also covered in piercings and is probably already died using that logic and as aluded to by cage previously.

  80. Well if you look at the last chapter most of it is about the code from Jiraiya. The code said “the real one isn’t there” so none of the 6 people are the actual pain. I think that the piercings are what make the bodies connected and lets hi , This allows them all to see the same things. I do think that all six pains are dead take a look at ch 260 pg 17 and 18. I am thinking it is the same as that jitsu, only pain can pass on most of his chakra with the piercings. And that thing that Jiraiya got hit with could be made from the same thing the piercings where made from. that is why Jiraiyas chakra went crazy because pain was sending his chakra into Jiraiya from that thing.

  81. I do think it’s coincidence that Jiraya knew all the other bodies, he had been traveling around the world for the last 20 something years, that’s a lot of time to meet a lot of people. Though, something was off during Pain and Jiraya’s conversation. Pain kept on going on about growing up like Nagato in ch 373 09, but his plan sounded like Yahiko’s on ch 372 14. Maybe Nagato didn’t want revenge against other countries, so Yahiko gets mad and leaves and bumps into Madara, tells him about the rin’negan. Madara helps Yahiko steal the rin’negan and in payment Yahiko becomes Madara’s lackey. Somewhere in between then and now, Yahiko, or Pain by then, helps Madara find a new body.

  82. or nagato knew yahiko’s plans and yahiko died so he’s getting revenge and fulfilling yahiko’s plans

  83. What if Yahiko was killed trying to save nagato. then nagato took up Yahikos ideals, thinking his own ways where wrong because his ideals got yahiko killed. Alot like kakashi and obito.

  84. what if the killers of yahiko also happen to be group of ninjas from hidden leaf. im thinkin deeply about pein how he turn out to be right now. if i were to guess, there something happened inn his past between his team and a group of ninja (leaf ninja?). maybe nagato have finnaly find out the truth who attack their villages… the sannins (jiraiya, tsunade, and oro) but this theory kinda breaks because pein let orochimaru in akats group. but whatever happens in his past, some konoha ninjas are involve on it thats why hes after them.

  85. maybe Kishimoto is sexist and likes making women look weak and unimportant in the manga or is a little emo man who is in luv with Sasgay…….. 😦

  86. I just noticed my comments were on the wrong discussion, so I´ll just copy it(and add sth):

    1. He uses a technique similar to a mixture of Kage Bunshin and Orochimaru´s necromancy jutsu, but perfected by Rinnegan. That´d mean he´s still alive and pulls strings from the background.
    This would match to the image developed in his fight against Jiraiya sensei: Always keeping something back, hiding in summoned animals, having a backup-force in secret …
    This seems very likely because lots of akatsuki-members (Oro, Kakuzu, Madara?, Sasori) use dead enemies.
    Furthermore, around ch 256, he transfers Itachi´s and Kisame´s consciousness into other persons, which he could do himself, too.

    2. He has become a god-like existence and has somehow melted with the others to one confidence (seeing the same) that also comprises the other individuals (Nagato and so on). Philosophically said “transcendental” (I dunno if it´s the right translation – I don´t trust the online translator – I mean the expression formed by Kant)

    You have to consider that Pein never called himself Nagato, Yahiko and so on, so he obviously doesn´t regard himself as one person but either as a result of pain (then he could still be a single person) or like in 2.

    Concerning using-dead-body techniques:
    It´d be interesting if Kishimoto lets Naruto fight against Pein in the form of Jiraiya and his mother.

  87. I know this one´s long again, but please read 2. at least

    Concering Madara=Danzou:
    1.Kisame (Madara´s student!) comes from the same village, where Sai was to get his feeling erased – by Danzou´s order. you can read it in the chapter when he gets his picture book back in oro´s base (dunno the number)

    2.Anybody thought about OBITO = DANZOU?
    I mean the eye, the blessures and so on

    Coming conflict Pein-Madara:
    Pein wants worldwide peace, but Madara?
    In a former chapter, Pein explains to gain world government, but I think this was only to get pawns (world dictatorship and peace don´t fit, after ultimate jutsu, there´d be no world to reign and both of his explainations bout akatsuki´s aim in front of akats and infront of Jiraiya are contradictory anyway)
    I can´t imagine Madara to struggle for peace, when considering his fight against the foundation of Konoha (like he said himself).
    So there´ll may be another turn-around in the story – Akatsuki, too self confident right before reaching their “common” goal, gets torn apart by traitorship and inner conflicts (Pein-Madara)

    Most likely all of these things have been said before, but i´m too
    lazy to read all comments, so sorry for repetitions ^^

  88. Obito=Danzo=Madara is for sure something we have talked about but I also think that some of what Danzo has said contradicts what Madara teaches and vice versa. Kishimoto is fucking with the readers using the one eye in many characters to keep us guessing and theorizing.
    Good break down of the Pain possibilities Martin THX.

  89. pein’s new body is sasori u can tell just by looking at him and second of all zetsu did take sasori’s body wen he died and why the hell would pein need naruto’s mom?

  90. Yall are a bunchhh off weirdooss juss wachh and see what happens sheeshh!!!

  91. I was just wondering. Did any notice in the anime that danzo was in the same kind of monks clothes as Sora. Does that mean that he is also a monk.

    As for madara isn’t there something kind of wierd in the fact that we have not seen his face. or at least all of it.
    And if he is immortal as he claims he is why does he only have one eye.


  93. danzo is not utchiha madara the true madara is tobi the new member of akatsuki the tue founder of akatsuki is utchiha madara pain is the sobordinate of madara

  94. Danzo n Madara finally meet in the new manga check it out

  95. also u guys should check out tozens hollificaton on bleach he looks so cool onemanga.com

  96. no not exactly
    Danzo isnt Madara it’s revealed on the manga that they both fight with each other
    the reason he possesses sharingan is because he served as a vessel for sealing sharingan into his boddy he has more than 1 sharingan with him for he collected them for a long time now.

    Kushina isnt one of them, it is also revealed in the manga that Shizunewas was captured by one of peins boddyes and got possessed temporaryly by him

  97. Well, how could danzo be Madara?
    Madara was standing by the whole time when sasuke and danzo fought.
    Sasuke even killed danzo. Check chapter 478(Might not be correct).
    By now we know that danzo IS NOT MADARA.

  98. at the time of the battle sasuke with Madara danzo ……….. who witnessed the battle during the two …….. so is it possible to have two bodies Madara ….. because many say whether it was Madara danzo

  99. Kushina (Naruto’s mother) died when giving birth to Naruto, so it’s impossible that she’s one of pain’s bodyes… =S

  100. its very impossible that kushina is one of pein’s body
    because in some accounts, kushina was reported to die at the same time with minato after sealing the kyuubi inside naruto,,

    and madara lived long ago before danzo was born…

    madara and shodai hokage together built the konoha..

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