Will Kishi get his MOJO back?
Ok, I know the title assumes everyone agrees that Kishi has lost his groove. I also know many of you disagree. We’ll start with my premise; and if you still disagree after reading the post, prove me wrong. As I recall, Negato’s suicide no-jutsu, left IRA virtually split on whether it was a cop-out or genius. I still haven’t flushed that discussion out of my system. Although Kishi has introduced some cool new characters and moved us towards the next story line, he still hasn’t reeled me back in.
So, where to start. Let’s see…How about a poll.
Now if you voted that Kishi let us in on his genius, let’s see if I can change your mind.
The Set-up
We need to go back to the beginning of this arc. Kishi had defined Akatsuki as an incredibly powerful organization. Ostensibly, the head of that organization was Negato. In order to lead such a powerful group of shinobi, he must have been dominant. During the build-up of this arc, Kishi developed Negato’s character into a shinobi with god-like power and an evil aura.
Kishi then set events into motion that screamed for a massive showdown involving much of the shinobi world. Many of the key players were on the fast slow train (the tracks were long and tortuous) to Konoha. We were all guessing who would show up, when, and what would they do.
-
Team Hawk – To DESTROY Konoha
-
The Six Paths of Pain – To Capture Kyuubi
-
Naruto – Returning from his sage training in Myobokuzan
-
Danzo – Crawling out of the sewer
-
Team Samui – An envoy from Raikage- they are assumed strong but also provide some comic relief
-
Negato & Konan – Debated whether they went to Konoha or stayed in the power tower
-
Killer Bee – A wildcard, debated whether he might head to Konoha instead of Enka
-
Sand Siblings- A wildcard, but often discussed that they might be headed to Konoha
-
Madera & Zetsu – After discovering Bee’s deception, they could have teleported to Konoha at any time
-
Team Gai - Dyyynnnnaaammiicccc EEEnnntryyyyy, remember they weren’t in the village at the start of the attack
-
Kabutoro – Another wild card, but he/it/they have motive to board the train
So we had a mountain of kinetic energy converging on Konoha. There were so many potential battles and subplots to be explored; so many potential surprises, alliances and betrayals. What does Kishi do with most of these subplots? He ignores them. Evidently only Naruto and Negato got the “Meet me in Konoha, and don’t be late” memo.
The Good
Yes there were some great elements in this arc. Among them, the Naruto/Pain battle was Awesomeness. There were several twists that were also phenomenal. Naruto’s entry into the melee was EPIC; Hinata’s mid-battle confession was masterful; Naruto going eight tails was massive; and Minato’s subconscious appearance was an event. In the end, these great elements were not enough to overcome the debacle of an ending that Kishi authored.
The Bad
There were some misses too. Konoha’s intelligence corps looked more like the Keystone cops. Kakashi’s fireside chat, which should have been an awesome surprise, ended up being a strange letdown. Minato’s appearance was great, but Kishi left so much unexplored; Naruto didn’t even ask about his mother, WTF. Negato’s flashback was full of information that we already knew… well except for TIIIIINNNYYYYY! In the end we were left with the impression that Negato wasn’t a god, but a little boy who lost his parents (and puppy dog) then couldn’t figure out Yahiko’s dream of peace and turned it into a nightmare. However, these imperfect elements wouldn’t have killed the arc if Kishi had delivered on the ending.

The Ugly
Of course the most important miss in this arc was Negato’s suicide by Gedo Rinne Tensei No Jutsu. First, killing Negato off was such a waste, especially given the amount of story line invested into building the character. Second, having Gedo Rinne resurrect all the dead leaf ninja was indefensible. It diminished the sacrifices of the ninja who gave their lives defending Konoha, and it devalued Naruto’s decision not to kill Negato. Of course I’m happy that Kakashi is still alive, but it should have been accomplished through his own strength of will, not some cheap plot device. It was a writer’s cop-out.
There were a lot of you who claimed that preventing Naruto from fulfilling his primal desire for revenge was brilliant. This showed, according to many of you, how much Naruto had matured. I call bull$h!t, it’s the same story we saw in the Gaara arc, and as usual the sequel didn’t live up to the original. The process through which Negato transformed from judging Naruto with absolute contempt to pledging fealty to Naruto’s path… lacked any semblance to credibility. Negato showed virtually no internal struggle, no real admission that he understood the error in his ideology. Someone just turned the light switch to the “ON” position. Since there was no believable reason for this about-face, what was Kishi to do? Quick suicide no jutsu before somebody turns the switch back “off.” If you go back and read the Garra arc, Kishi presents a much better flashback, engages Gaara in a struggle to understand himself and his opponent, and the “Naruto effect” is subtle – not immediate and absolute.
Negato Arc Wrap Up
So now Kishi has to wrap up this DUD of an ending to what was such a promising arc. He starts by having Konan give Naruto a bouquet of paper mache roses, and then she walks off into the sunset towing the mummified remains of Yahiko and Negato. I won’t even address the fact that she gives flowers to the kid who just talked Negato, her reason for being, into committing suicide. No that’s not my big problem. We know that Kishi has a penchant for playing switchy-switchy with tasty eyeballs. How could Konaha (which includes the newly minted MATURE-Naruto, the Keystone cops…err intelligence corps, ANBU, Root, and all other thinking shinobi) allow the only existing pair of rinnegan eyes to just saunter back down that yellow brick road to the Hidden Rain? It defies logic; the most powerful eye technique known just waltzes out of Konoha to an unknown end. Who will claim them; is this a way for Kabutoro to get back into the “life-wouldn’t-suck-so-bad-if-you-didn’t-have-to-die” game? Next, Kakashi pops up from his slumber, runs through the woods, directly to Naruto. No debriefing; no, “Where’s Negato, or was anyone else with him, or where’s his eyes?’ Just, hop on my back and let’s get to the party. Did he forget that Konoha was in a fight for its existence?
At the Hurricane party, Naruto gets his hero’s welcome. It was well deserved, but the timing was rotten. That said…what does Hinata do, given her earlier heroism? She hides in the crowd and whispers, “Thank God” under her breath. So much for her Dyyynnnaaammiiccc Entry Connnffffeeesssioooonnnn, and Naruto doesn’t even look for her. Then Pinky shows up. How does she greet the hero for whom, she had shrieked, “Hurry back Naruto!! Naruto please!!” She punches him in the gut and calls him a “dummy.” And what was Naruto’s reaction? “OW!” Yep, he sure has matured. Ok, she does hug him and say, “Thank you.” The hug does have a more intimate appearance; note her hand on his cheek. But if in a later chapter she makes a big confession to Naruto, Kishi will fall into the manga hall of shame… Unless, Naruto tells her to pound sand. (Yah, I had to throw that in after Kishi vomited that load on us in the last chapter.)
Then comes the meeting to decide who will become the next Hokage. The ruling class of the fire country turns out to be a bunch of absolute nimrods. How could they have chosen so well in the past, then demonstrate the complete ineptitude portrayed in this chapter? If this decision was caused by Danzo’s genjutsu, wouldn’t some of The Leaf’s elite shinobi seen through it, and why didn’t Danzo use genjutsu to prevent Tsunade’s ascendance in the first place? Again, it seems that Kishi has a direction in mind and doesn’t care how foolish it looks as long as he gets to his destination.
Other Nagging Issues
There were also some inconsistencies that bothered me. Kakashi died from Chakra depletion, and then got resurrected. Tsunade is almost dead from what… chakra depletion, yet after Gedo Rinne takes his pilgrimage through town, she remains in a coma. I know, I know - Tsunade wasn’t dead and Shikamaru’s broken leg wasn’t healed either. That’s an apples and oranges comparison. We’re expected to believe that Tsunade had to completely deplete her chakra reserve before Negato could infuse her with some of his? It just doesn’t make sense… until we find out that Danzo uses Tsunade’s coma as his opportunity to usurp the Hokage hat from her unconscious, wrinkled fingers. How convenient. I suppose that it would have been a little more difficult for Kishi to accomplish this coup d’etat if Tsunade was in a position to defend her leadership.
There’s another inconsistency that has bothered me; although it appears to be pretty picky, it’s telling about how Kishi didn’t think through the ending and wrap up of this arc. Remember Tazari and little Izuna from the Zabuza arc; they show up to help rebuild Konoha. What a nice stroll down memory lane. One question, how the hell did they show up hours after Konoha was leveled? Team Samui had been racing to Konoha for 20 chapters, yet old man Tazuna gets started building a tavern before they arrive. Worse, Raikage’s ”messenger” hawk, demanding a meeting of the five Kages, showed up after Tazuna. I know that it’s a small mistake, but it adds another brick to the argument that Kishi is off of his game.
Beginning the New Arc
It’s been said many times before, but it’s worth repeating; a great villain makes for a great hero. We start this arc with no new antagonist and Akatsuki has been virtually destroyed, its strongest member/leader embalmed by origami. Madera, the puppet master, now takes overt control over what’s left of Akatsuki. By his own admission, Madera is but a “shell of his former self.” Akatsuki is on life support. What does Madera do? He declares war on the Five Great Nations. Five apparently very powerful Kages, a treasure trove of strong shinobi, the two strongest jinchuurikis, and the pooled resources of five independent nations. What was he thinking? That’s right, he has a plan. Moon pie, Red eye…whatever. It’s laughable. Yes, Madera has the seven captured bijuu sealed inside Gedo Mazo, but there’s a couple of problems with utilizing that power. One, can he even use their collective chakra pool? As far as we know, Negato and his rinnegan were the only forces that controlled the statue. In fact, why didn’t the statue crumble when Negato slit his anorexic wrist? Can the Gedo Mazo even be exploited without all nine eyes being activated? We know that the massive power it contains requires balance, which is why Kyuubi had to be the last bijuu captured. Two, let’s say that Madera can employ the Gedo Mazo in its current condition. Then why wouldn’t Akatsuki have used it all along as they captured each bijuu, the next would have been easier, right? It’s just another plot hole that seems to defy the rules that Kishi had set when he introduced us to Akatsuki.
And what about Naruto? He should be sitting on top of Kage Mountain waiting for Granny to pass the torch. Instead he’s had Sakura sucker punch him in front the entire village. He’s been told by Kakashi to stay out of village politics. He’s had Team Samui beat the snot out of him. He’s lain prostrate before the Raikage begging on behalf of Sasuke. And finally, half of his manga appearances have shown him pining away for Sasuke, I’m beginning to wonder if he’s changed teams on us…err, Hinata. Come on Kishi, you moved Naruto two steps forward only to walk him back three. If he’s matured so much, show it. If Naruto is going to be an equal to Sasuke, who in my mind will become the final, most evil antagonist of this Manga (but that’s another post), Naruto must also become a true leader of men. So far that type of growth has only been alluded to… but not defined.
Final Thoughts
I’ll finish by stating the not-so-obvious; I really am a fan of Kishi’s work. I didn’t start reading the manga until a month after finding IRA. I was amazed at some of the hidden, surprising, and meaningful nuggets that were explored within individual panels and expanding to the overall plot. I never even noticed many of those nuggets, until Jeremiah and Ibiki pointed them out in their posts. As a result, I now expect more from Kishi’s story lines. The ending to the last arc and the start of this current arc, don’t seem to have the same commitment to the story. I hope I’m wrong about the current arc, but as of this writing, Kishi has yet to find his muse.
So, did I change any minds? If not, go to the comments and try to change mine. But first…

1st?
2ND! Awesome post Jdb and you’re right, the Pein Arc ending was a cop out at its best. Though, I have to disagree with you about how Kakashi was revived and Tsunade wasn’t. The jutsu Pein did to revive everybody revived the dead…that’s all. The fact of the matter is that Kakashi was dead and Tsuande wasn’t so Pein’s jutsu had nothing to deal with her. It’s a black and white kind of power. The justu is only meant to revive the dead not the nearly dead, the injured, or the comatose.
In all honesty the best part of this new arc has been Sasuke trashing the Kage meeting and kicking ass. Then getting his ass kicked after finally running out of hate fuel for his emo batteries. The declaration of war from Madara is dumb as hell! >< Like you said what forces does he have and how does he plan to utilize the statue with only 7 of the bijuu trapped in it? Lol, and I'm mad he declared war for another reason…-_- What I'm really disappointed in is that Naruto's meeting with Sasuke has been postponed again because this war (if it happens) will be top on his priority list. I assume they'll meet on the battlefield later on though.
And where's the love and appreciation for Hinata who saved your ass Naruto!? He didn't even thank her, WTF!? Don't tell me he forgot…-_-
Dang that was the looongest post ever, so long that i decided to claim 1st when i was half way into reading it. but i managed to read it all eventually.
Good points there buddy, perhaps you were over thinking things a bit in some area’s (Theres no way im going to read the whole post again, so i can point out those area’s lol XD) But it was a really good detailed analytical post.
I still think that the Pain VS Leaf arc was incredible. There was an incredible arc before the Pain VS Leaf arc too (Find Itachi arc) So IMO, thats 2 incredible arcs right next to each other and about 80 consecutive chapters of mainly incredible stuff.
I guess Kishi is taking a much needed breather from all of that, with this current new arc and calming things down for the first time in 2 years?
I don’t agree with Schy at all…
That wasn’t over thinking at all. This post really hashed out many frustrations I’ve had with Naruto manga for close to the last year or so.
The Gaara arc is a perfect example of a bitter hatred, turned to understanding correctly. When they were both on the ground crawling and scrapping for that last bit, I was ready to jump through the pages and join the fight myself!
Nagato’s back story was laughable and the way he turned his hate hat backwards “like a switch” and flipped the script, just made me point and laugh. (ten points to the person who names the obscure Stallone movie I just referenced)
Don’t even get me started on the missed opportunities for Kakashi’s character growth during the creepy dead guy camp fire followed by his bogus resurrection.
I’m back into the manga now but I have to admit that as far as SJ manga goes, this arc moved Bleach ahead of Naruto as my favorite weekly manga.
I’m still reading but I no longer feel I’m in the hands of a manga artist genius, but rather a money bloated ego maniac who is too busy hittin switches and banging bitches to give a decent attempt at writing an intelligent story.
At this point, I don’t think he has to try anymore. The product is so popular that people are eating it up regardless. Sadly, I’m one of those people who continues to read hoping that he starts to care again.
Heres to Naruto not becoming mindless Goku fodder and to Jdb for one of the most poignant reads I’ve had in a while… and that includes all media sources, not just free blogs, excellent job.
*nice gai pose*
OMG i agree with pretty much everything here!!! ill make a longer comment later, but yeah all i can say is exactly!! Nagato suicide was such a cop out!
I’m with Jeremiah on this one (omg we actually agree on something). Great post jd, Kishi has for a while talked about wanting to wrap up Naruto, that combined with his bank account (which could probably buy Nagato a farm of lil Tiny’s and about a truck load of gold plated, diamond crafted razor blades) have ruined him. It’s becoming a good guys always win scenario as long as you believe enough, which is totally different than the darker issues Zabuza and Kakashi talked about early on.
@schy- it was a great arc, from a Michael Bay point of view, plenty of explosion’s and violence, hot women submitting themselves to the male heroes and a bunch of shit happens that no one is too sure about. But considering what the story was developing into as it reached part 2, it is a huge letdown. The disappointing thing is, that it’s all there, the darkness and inner struggles, character’s rich in potential, and plenty of interactions. But it’s like he comes up with a great idea and then leaves it at that, he doesn’t dig any deeper than what’s necessary to make something passable. Which is fine for a movie or an anime, or some MTV celebrity death match epsiode, but this is a manga first and foremost, and pen to paper should explain a story and were just disappointed that Kishi taunts us and teases us what he could do, leaving most of the good writing to the fanfic authors.
And i use to think saskue was a flamer, but it’s been three and a half years and Naruto still cries over Saskue, not wanting to admit that he’s gone. Plus he still needs to be baby sat as evidence of Kakashi and Yammamoto telling Naruto what to do, and the only ninja who shows Naruto any respect is shikimaru’s dad, despite the fact that nobody did anyhting against pain except get killed. The entire time, people talk about not using Naruto as a weapon but treating him as a human, yet that’s all they do is make the decision’s for him and tell him where to aim his next rasengan. I could go on, but you said it far better then i ever could, again, nice job jd.
(0_o) OMG Alec and I agree… hell has frozen over ^_^
The best point you made is why did Kishi kill of Nagato? Kishi has done this before. Remember when we read 3 chapters of Sasoris past just to watch him die? Even Tike does this (Remember Nnotria and Barragon?). So you can’t say Kishi has changed because he’s been killing off cool villians for years. (Seriously, why kill Zabuza? At least make him into a good guy xD)
I liked the Pain Invasion Arc, and i didnt mind the ending. I think Kishi resurrected all the dead shinobi so he could give so meaning to Naruto telling Nagato his answer. Was it a little too far resurrecting everyone in the village? Maybe, but i dont care a whole lot. Maybe Kishi just wanted them back alive to fight this “war”.
Like I said 4 months ago, theres really nothing else Kishi could have done with the Kakashi campfire story. We already know everything about Sakumo. Im sorry but I really don’t know what else you want from there?
Oh and something that bugged me was why not give Naruto a few standard fuuton techs or something? You should add that to your nagging issues section xD
@ Fanboi – to answer your question… character growth.
@Miah ~ But you dont actually disagree with me “COMPLETELY” though, right?
I mean we both really liked this post
I just thought the post was a little too in depth in certain area’s, making the post a little long – dont get me wrong, nothings wrong with a long post like this of course, like i said i thought the post was very good…it looks even better now that im at home…..
You helped me miss my work! 
Its just that i forced myself to read the whole post while i was at college and i didnt get much work done because of the posts length lol XD
Darn your long posts and details jdb44!!!!
Oh well…. ^_^
The only thing im confused about is why the arc didnt work for some people? Are some people just bitter that the action had to come to an end?
I dont get it, it worked amazingly for me.
Granted the ending could have been better, i didnt think it would top the battles from this Pain VS Leaf arc though, because the battles are what made me love the arc. Although i wasn’t actually expecting some sort of grand ending to the arc either, so i wasn’t disappointed.
Another member of Akatsuki dies, he dies doing something a little differently than your average Akatsuki member, because he was a slightly more important member. Its expected.
Nagato isnt the leader of Akatsuki, he was the former leader. So it would make sense for him to die differently but not epicly.
I mean we have a guy who’s half dead, in some kind of wheelchair, coughing up blood and he has rods sticking out of him. What do you expect would happen, Naruto to start battling him? Nobody would take that seriously, especially with Nagato in that wheelchair, it would look laughable with him moving in that, more stupid than when we saw what was inside one of the Pains minds.
Like we all agree, the ending could have been better. But i feel it could have been worse. Nagato could have died like all the other random mad members of Akatsuki, but instead he died differently showing he was an individual different member and of greater importance, at the same time, nothing as good as the battles Pain fought in happened when Nagato died, because Pain was already identified to not be the true leader. Save the really awesome stuff for Madara’s death.
As far as backstory goes, I do have problems with Nagato’s past though, it was ridiculous, Tiny was most stupid.
Although the personality change in a moment wasn’t, i myself have experienced a personality change in a mere moment, so i can understand. Nagato all his life worked towards one goal and in one mere moment that goal because impossible and he was betrayed, Nagato’s best friend died by his own hands involuntarily, he was betrayed further and Hanzo was going to kill Nagato even though Yahiko died, Nagato had hidden powers. Nagato was bound to flip, what else was supposed to happen? Was he supposed to stay the same? Instant personality change happens all the time in life and in anime, especially in Dragonball Z. If the above isnt enough to make you freak out instantaneously, then nothing will.
But as i said, on the whole, Nagato’s backstory sucked and it made him seem like a poor victim, which was lame IMO.
Well im not sure if i’ve talked about, or even slightly touched upon what people seem to think was wrong with the arc. Im not really sure if people thought it was the arc that sucked or the arcs happy finale. But i do know that the majority of the “problems” people have with the arc would only come down to preferences, expectations and personal opinions. Not everybody will like something. Not everybody will hate something and some things will be moe appealing to some people than others. I guess its no good crying over spilled milk because what happened has happened….
…But im curious, what is it that you would have wanted from the manga?
What sort of specific character growth would you want from Kakashi?
Tenten needs more growth than Kakashi….
@jermiah im going to guess the movie reference was to the cinematic masterpiece that was Over the Top.
Hallelujah to that! ^_^
I agree with most of what you wrote, but some things just don’t bother me like they do you, jdb. I never even noticed that the hawk arrived after Tazuna and I’d have to go back to reread it to even know when that happened *L* I was satisfied with Minato’s appearance, too, and have to disagree that Naruto should have asked about his mother. That was already a huge shock to have to digest, and I doubt anyone’s first question would have been about who their mom was when you’ve gone 8-Tails and found out your dad was the Fourth Hokage >_<
Amen to the rest though, especially the character growth bit in regards to Naruto and wanting more from Kakashi's campfire talk with dad. I thought for sure, after building up to that cliffhanger that left everyone wondering for like 50 chapters, that we'd get some awesomeness revelation. Whether about Kakashi's mom or if his dad told him something that flips everything we thought about Konoha, I was expecting more than "and that was my story" the end *sigh* The only redeeming part of that talk was seeing Sakuma's face, but even then it still doesn't show us what Kakashi looks like under his mask. They have different jawlines, for starters, which makes me wonder even more who his mom was since he has at least one of her features. I'm getting nit-picky now, though, so I'll stop before the art training I went through during college becomes a full blown rant *L*
Excellent post, I look forward to seeing more from you ^_^
LMFAO! Domosenpai FTW!!!! ^_^
Thank you Domo for making a shitty day just a little better, by knowing that reference ^_^ I love crappy 80’s movies, I need to blog about that
@All who slogged through this post: Sorry for the length of it. IRA went on sebatical shortly after this arc ended,so my frustration with it (and Kishi) just festered. And Kishi hasn’t help much with the beginning of this current arc. When Jeremiah opened the blog, I knew that I had to document my (and I hoped others) grievances with the last arc.
It is still my hope that those who thought the arc was great will explain why. I know there are a lot of you who defended the ending when it was freshly minted. I really do want your feedback on what you saw that I didn’t. You’ll get debated, but you won’t get slammed…by me anyway.
@ the jman- http://phoenix.fanster.com/files/2009/01/hellfrozenover.jpg
Yes. Thank you jdb. I can’t even stand to read this manga anymore. Although I read the. Last chapter because I can’t believe Kishi has sunk to the level of writing his own bad fanfiction. If he can manage to stop phoning it in, I might read it again. But for now ill just watch from the sidelines. Wake me when I need to pay attention again.
@Super: I’d agree with you on the resurrection jutsu… if only those actually killed by pain had been revived. Kakashi died, although it was never really confirmed as death, from chakra depletion. If you look at the panels where the individuals were restored, it looks like they were infused with chakra, not there lost soles. Kishi could have easily fixed this by having Pain walk over and pull Kakashi’s sole out. But he didn’t.
As for Sasuke and Naruto, I’ve always believed that they will meet at The Valley of The End, with the statues of The First and Madera in the front row for the show. It will be the final showdown, senju (we now know) vs Uchiha, another example of the Kishi repeating themes.
@Jeremiah: Thanks, I was a bit worried about both the length and the rant. I’m pleased you found it worthwhile. Like you, I’m still reading, because I hope Kishi will reconnect with his genius.
@Alec: I had forgotten about Shikaku, your right he did acknowledge Naruto… and the flashback of Shikamaru saying that he just wanted to walk Naruto’s path.
Like you said Kishi had set up a plot that was rich with potential, then squandered it with a terrible use of a well developed story line.
@TakashiD: I look forward to your comment.
@Fanboi: Yes Kishi has killed off characters, it’s the nature of manga. But bad guys generally don’t “off” themselves, it’s against their nature. All of the characters you mentioned, were never the main antagonist. Negato was.
As for the resurrection, I hashed out my thoughts in the post. We’ll agree to disagree.
The Kakashi chat was absolutely bungled. Close your eyes, engage your imagination, and now tell me there was nothing more Kishi could have done with the campfire story. I’ll leave it there for now.
@Schy: Hmm. I’ll get back to you.
@Elfarren: LMAO, I know Tazuna was picky, but if you look at the list of folks “on the train to Konoha” in the post, it just irked me that he popped up before most of them.
Below are the pages showing Tazuna and the messenger hawk. The hawk is ten pages after Tazuna. Samui is in between.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/451/04/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/451/14/
As for Mom. Think of an orphan. He’s never known either parent. He’s suddenly confronted by one of them. One of his first questions has to be…has to be about the other parent. Where do I come from; ok, your half; where’s the other half?
I’m with you on Kakashi. Although it never dawned on me to compare bone structure and jawlines. Funny how we all take different things away from the panels
@Kumori: I’m hoping that we’ll be nudging you pretty soon, but that may be me being overly optimistic.
I actually like some of the new characters. I’m digging Samui’s team for sure ^_^
Damn lots of people have already said what i was planning to say, but i will go ahed with this anyway. Nagato’s suicide, first of all, was such a waste of a good character. for one thing if he had lived he probobly could have messed with the gedo statue which would have screwed tobis plan a whole lot. also he would have been a seriously powerfull ally foe Naruto. i mean he kicked the crap out of all the good guys and blew up their village by himself! he could have been a big help in the upcoming war. my next problom with his suicide is how kishi kills him quickly, so quickly that he cant stop to tell naruto stuff like heres what sasukes been up to, he joined us by the way. o yeah and this what tobis plan is and zetsu and kisames abilitys that i know seince im the leader of akatsuki. i mean, i know that people like having that stuff revealed dramaticly during battle, but he (or konan after his death) could have given naruto some helpfull info about sasuke at least so that when Samui’s team shows up saying “Sasuke attacked our village and kidnapped our master” Naruto’s reaction was not O_O “…what? Sasuke what happened to you?” . The main problom for me though is how nagato changed sides, Naruto says im not going to kill you, so belive in me! When i becoume hokage i’ll change things!…..Somehow! btw Jiriya based his first book on you! and somehow this convinces nagato to give up on the orginization he has worked on for years of his adult life. WTF!? This is another problom i have, Garra was a kid like naruto, his change was belivable. Pein was a leader of a village, a ADULT who had killed many people to end the civil war in his country and lead an orginization of tough criminals for at least three years during the gap between part one and two and an unspecified number of years before that. he should not have been swayed as esaily as a lonely teenage boy who killed to “feel alive”.
Sorry for the rant, kishi pissed me off ALOT with this end for Pain. I knew the arc had to end and i could see how kishi was trying to make the hardcore badass seem sympathetic (why even try when the badass in question has just BLOWN UP the favorite village of most of the fans) so i had prepared my self for either a) Pain becouming naruto’s ally somehow, or b) Pain dying. i was hoping for A and willing to accept B and then kishi gave me C) all of the above. Goddammit kishi……
ID say the Pain arc was good up until Naruto killed God Pain. Everything falls apart when Nagato and Naruto meet.
This is why Oda > Kishi. One Piece never fails to deliver while Naruto just hasnt been the same lately.
Come on Naruto!!! Dont pull a Bleach on me!!!
Personally, I’d say Naruto has too many different characters nowadays and should kill off more people. Just imagine if Kishi had made all the villains turn good instead of killing them off; that would be a total cop out itself in my mind.
I agree that Shippuden has been nowhere near as good as the orignal but I don’t think the Pain arc is the chief culprit. I think the whole plot with Sasuke and Itachi is what threw off the story entirely. I still find it hard to believe that Itachi was such a tool he could be manipulated into killing his whole clan. Plus he was so much cooler as a bad guy.
I mean sure Kishi totally pulled a “deus ex machina” for the Pain ending but the arc as a whole was the best in Shippuden. It wasn’t nearly as well done as the Gaara ending (which is for my money the best moment in the series) but it at least redeemed Naruto’s character and made him seem cool again. I guess I’m the only one with this view but that’s how I feel.
That a good comment Bugman, I just disagree.
Yeah… except I think he should have left the characters he killed… dead.
I think the Pain arc was the worst of the entire series.
The Gaara arc makes the Pain arc look retarded. Everything done right in the Gaara arc was done wrong in the Pain arc. People stayed dead (the 3rd Hokage) and the back story wasn’t based off of Tiny the Dog… Nooooooooooooooooo!
i disagree and agree with you miah, although it was complete bollacks that everyone was brought back when they should stayed dead, the fight was the best in the shippuuden so far, after God Realm was killed it just went downhill… it started good, ended badly … thats my opinion
No way, I love the hand to hand combat pre Shipuuden. But thats my preference.
oh yeah the hand to hand was ace, but shippuuden has some pretty sweet fights
@Bugman44: Thanks for the comment. I’m not bothered by the number of characters in the manga. Some of the new ones are intriguing.
Truthfully, I could have cared less whether Kishi killed Negato or left him alive; whether he left him as a villain or turned into an ally via the “Gaara Effect.” It was the way Kishi ended it, that left me so dissatisfied. However; if pressed, I was really hoping that Negato would have kept Naruto in his Chibaku Tensei prison. Then Naruto might have received additional time/training from Dad. Also, it would have provided manga time for the other Rookie Twelve, when they embarked on a Naruto retrieval arc. That could have been a fun ride.
I actually thought the Itachi/Sasuke story was excellent. My favorite panel of all time is the “Last Forehead Poke.” Itachi’s final acts were a barely perceptable smile and and a tap to Sasuke’s forehead. It was perfect.
The Deus ex machina device of an ending was what killed (no pun intended) the arc. Kishi had set up so many potential plot twists and used none of them. I thought that Naruto, through his sage training and pwnage of Pain, had gained massive “cool” points. His chat with Negato and the subsequent suicide ending, took most of those points back.
And… your not the only one who felt that way. There were many people on IRA who thought the ending was great and that it portrayed Naruto’s “growth” beautifully. I had hoped some of them would provide their reasons in the comments.
jdb44: i do think that Naruto has grown alot, being able to spare a guy who had done so much damage to his life and home. He had becoume much cooler with his fight with Pain and i thought that him sparing Nagato showed great maturity and mercy. what kishi did after though, kind of ruins the message. Nagato reviveing everyone was like saying as long as naruto knows pain from loss he dosent have to live with it. i would have been much more interested in seeing a desperate, damaged konoha trying to rebuild after being mostly destroyed by Pain zand having to deal with the coming war then just bing every single person who died in this arc is back and bing with yamato and the carpenters soon it will be like this entire arc never happened….. making it a complete waste of time. all that really changes is Naruto, him getting stronger with sage mode and becouming more loved by the village. which is good too i guess.
TakashiD: I’ll agree that Naruto showed some growth during the arc, especially in his strength as a shinobi. However, that growth hasn’t translated into substantial changes in the way Naruto is treated by his peers. Moreover, as I’ve said before, Naruto needs to grow in the area of leadership. To date he has excelled as a single contributor but not as a leader. Sasuke has clearly surpassed Naruto on that front. Kishi has to somehow credibly provide Naruto that experience and show him excelling in that regard.
As for the arc ending as you noted, I agree completely.
aww i missed the kishi bashing party =P
i agree on all fronts about the pain arc beeing a mess up, it was a very promising arc but in the end kishi couldnt get everything together, It’s why i love One Piece Oda really knows how to bring everything together.
I’ll check IRA some more again, kinda forgot about it lately
That was a great article, I think! Really Dynamiiiiiiiiiiic!
I was one of the persons that, however, totally disagreed. I loved the arc and I didn’t think it was shitty. Some points are understandable, though. I agree on the author that it was… weird to let a character (two, Konan indluded) vanish so fast after having introduced them in such a long flashback. That was… silly. Two characters lost, “oops, where did they go?”
But still, I believe that Nagato’s change of mind was sensible because of THIS: (I have a blog myself and I wrote a breakdown about that as well, but I’m German and unless you can read German… I think I’ll have to try to summarize it translated)
The Rikudou Sennin had this “Sharin’negan”, you know? Rinnegan and Sharingan united. He had two sons, one is the “Uchiha son” and the other is the “Senju son”. Both sons inherited some things from his father. Now we definitely know that the “Uchiha son” would have inherited the Sharingan, as the entire later Uchiha clan has this dou jutsu.
. Besides, how should the first of the Senjus (Hashirama, Tobirama, Touka) know that they have the potential for the Rinnegan? All this info is written on the mystic stone tablet
…what if the Senju son has inherited the Rinnegan on the other hand? 1st, that would mean that the whole Senju clan should be able to awaken the Rinnegan. But no one did, as we know. We know that the Uchihas probably ALL could activate it, but they HAVE to activate it nonetheless, and it’s not super easy.
Maybe the activation of the Rinnegan is MUCH more difficult and that’s why we never saw Hashirama, Tobirama, Touka or Tsunade or Nawaki with the Rinnegan. I mean, the Rinnegan is much stronger, so it should be much harder to activate, that would just be fair
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/467/12/
and this is located in an Uchiha hideout. How could the Senju know? They were enemies, so the Uchiha wouldn’t let them have a look when they want, and even so this info can only be read if the stone tablet was read “in the correct order with MS, S and Rinnegan”.
2nd, this would mean that Nagato had to be a scattered Senju descendant. That suits him very well, as he only talked about peace (and Tinyyyyy) in his childhood. But Nagato was weak, he had to face his two pains (parents’ death, Yahiko’s death) and he got sad. “And sadness leads to sorrow, sorrow leads to anger, anger leads to hate, and hate leads to the Dark Side of the Force.” He definitely turned to the dark side, to Akatsuki. But in the end, Naruto convinced him with Jiraiya’s book, and how could he have achieved that if the Will of Fire was not dwelling inside Nagato? I mean, Naruto is NOT Sailor Moon who can talk EVERYONE into becoming one of the good guys
.
So, yeah, that’s my point. What do you think of it?
Nobody reading here anymore? *sniff* I’d like to hear what you guys think of my theory!
Nobody could see ur theory until I approved it just now because of the link. Sorry about that >_< You should make that a post, rather than a comment.
Kishi will get his mojo back… just in time to lose it again!
He’s presented alot of great possibilities in this arc, we have an alliance of the nations (a ninja united nations, henceforth known as “N.U.N.” ) we have alot of powerful characters that could be developed into something useful (kisame-frieza-samehada, the otherkages, we have the teasings and tauntings of EPIC battles to come (Naru v. Madara, Naru v. Raikage)
…and then we have the CRAP that will likely happen…
A level of disappointment in the battles that will be rivaled only by the failure of that of Neo v. Smith in the Matrix: Revolutions.
Further (wasted) development of Sasuke… do we really need to know more about him?
Soap-opera-like drama between Naruto and the Raikage-led N.U.N. over the “death to Sasuke” order… instead of AWESOME PURE VIOLENCE…
Little or no development of Kisame, the hidden mist village, the Mizukage, and her illegitimate spawn she conceived with Kisame, and then made her bodyguard (yes, the shark-toothed hammer/sword kid.. already forgot his name) All of which will be diappointing – save for the bodyguard kid… Zabuza should come back from the dead and rape him.
…and in the midst of all this, I have now lost my mojo for ranting about this.
@Jeremiah: Thank you for appreciating me as an author
! I’m really honored! Though it might take a day or two to express my whole theory correctly because I’m a German girl and although I can speak fluently English, one will always be able to tell the difference to a native speaker/writer. Concerning jokes, sarcasm, colloquial language and so on… And as I would want to write this post really awesomeness-ly (so that it can cope with your posts), it may take some time or I won’t be able to achieve this at all
. I’d prefer to write a version and send it to you first, so that you can have a look at it before publishing it. What do you think about that?
“it devalued Naruto’s decision not to kill Negato.”
Im sorry but to me it seems like just the opposite. If Naruto would have killed Nagato then Kakashi, Shizune, and all the other Konoha-nins would still be dead. He only would have served his own selfish thirst of vengeance. And how is this the same thing as the Gaara arc? Naruto wasnt looking for revenge while he was fighting Gaara, he was protecting Sasuke and Sakura.
I agree that killing Nagato was a dumb decision but that doesnt ruin the plot. Konoha intellegiance is more comical to be than story crushing.
@aeris85 – Jeremiah’s right, you should elaborate on your theory in a post. I look forward to reading it.
You stated that you loved this arc, but you didn’t provide any examples of why.
Your theory about Negato’s “sensible” change of heart doesn’t appear to be a reason to love the arc, and it is a bit flawed. Rinnegan, as I understand it, is the Father of all Dojutsu. Byakugan and Sharingan both are derivatives of Rinnegan. Rikudou Sennin had the Rinnegan eye and it was believed to have died with him. We now know (if Madera is to be believed) that Rikudou Sennin split his powers between two sons. Wouldn’t it be more likely that the senju would have Byakugan and the Uchiha have Sharingan eyes? Although that’s unlikely, it’s more plausible than the Rikudou Sennin giving Senju his full Rinnegan. Truthfully, I don’t see Negato as being a Senju. If anything he could be the offspring of an accidental Senju/Uchiha pairing. Again it’s unlikely, but Negato would then have the blood of both clans in his veins…So his bloodlines would pull him in opposite directions.
Regardless, why Negato changed his world view doesn’t change the fact that Kishi did a poor job of credibly explaining Negato’s about-face. And that’s one of the big reasons I think the arc fell off a cliff. Then Kishi performed his suicide no jutsu and killed any hope of saving the arc.
I’d love to see a post that explains why you “loved” this arc. Specifically, what made it great. Keep in mind that I have acknowledged that there were some great elements in the arc and that Kishi had set up the plot in such a way that it could have been spectacular. He just didn’t capture the potential that this arc promised. Tell me what you saw in this arc that I didn’t.
I truly do look forward to seeing a well thought out post of why the arc worked. However, be ready to defend your reasons.
@fanboi- I never said that Naruto had to kill Negato, in fact, if you read one of my comments above, I said that it might have been better if Negato had captured Naruto. The suicide no jutsu was a plot device that essentially nullified everything that had occurred during the Konoha invasion. It cheapened the whole story.
Both arcs had elements of revenge and protection. The fact remains that Kishi used those elements much better in the Gaara arc.
It wasn’t just “killing Negato” that ruined the plot. It was the process leading to his death, the way he died, and the aftermath of his death. Kishi created a perfect storm with Negato’s metaphorical wrist slash.
As I said in the post. Konoha’s Keystone Cops wouldn’t have killed the story if Kishi had delivered on the ending. He just didn’t deliver.
@aeris: my guess is you should just post it. This is iareawesomeness, not I am grammatically correct and reasonably awesome.
No worries, you written ‘accent’ is adorable. GO FOR IT!
@jdb: Wow, thanks for so much input and your questions and the encouragement to write a post about the arc itself, although I won’t do that, I think. You asked me to write a post about why I loved the arc regarding your “bad and the ugly” issues and what I thought of them. Hmm, I do not think that it’s sensible to write why I loved some arc and why I didn’t, because I can’t prove those feelings. I just liked it, and there’s nothing to cite that. I can onyl say this much:
Of course, I loved all your “the good” issues: Narutos BAM Rasengan moves against Pain were EPIC, seeing Minato telling Naruto that he is his son was soooooooo overdue, Hinata’s confession was sweet, and the almost-9-tails was … yeah, epic as well!!
But for all the bad and the ugly things… I just didn’t think that they were sooooooo bad and ugly. As I said in my first comment, I agree with you that Kishi has deleted two characters (Nagato and Konan) in such a short time after spending so much time on them, that was really silly, yes. But the Gedo Rinne Tensei no Jutsu: I don’t have anything against it. I mean, this is the first time after Chiyo-baasama that we saw someone reviving TONS of people, that’s a cool skill, isn’t it? That’s worth something, and all I can say is that I did not find that shitty and silly and so on.
It proved that:
1st: Naruto has the gift to convince people, may they be as EVIL as they want (Gaara was nothing compared to Nagato), Naruto has the power to change people because he tries to understand them.
2nd: That Ero-Sennin’s life was not a waste because Naruto would not have been able to convince Nagato WITHOUT Jiraiya’s book! He always wanted his books to change the world, and this one did it.
You also wrote the part “other nagging issues”, the one about Tsunade’s coma being an inconsistency for you: Okay, for me, it wasn’t.
Kakashi: Used up so much Chakra that he instantly died, right after thinking “…although this last move will definitely kill me”. Dead, brain and heart, everything.
Tsunade: Released her chakra seal on her forehead where most of her chakra was stored, and gave it to Katsuyu for protection. As we’ve seen earlier in the great Sannin fight where she released her seal, she got weak and transformed into her old looking self for a short time. This time, during Pain’s attack, a more extreme version of this: Total loss of strength, of the beauty no jutsu with bom-chika-wow-wa, and she faints. Koma (or with “c”?). Why should Nagatos Revival no Jutsu revive her? She’s not dead. Not medically, though. I don’t know what Gedo Rinne no Tensei is looking for when it’s on its way: souls in the purgatory, hell and heaven? If so, it wouldn’t have found Tsunade’s soul there, because it’s still in her body.
I just don’t see why one could think that Gedo had to cure her as well.
Maybe I do have a reason why I liked this arc: Naruto coming back to Konoha and everybody appreciating him for what he did: “Naruto, you are a hero.”
@aeris85- Sorry, I didn’t mean to put you on the spot. You should write your posts on those things that YOU want to discuss. I look forward to reading them whatever the subject.
Your answer to why you liked the arc is telling though. “…I just liked it, and there’s nothing to cite that.” I think a lot of people liked it but couldn’t say why. It’s kind of a twist on self fulfilling prophesy. They wanted to like the story so much that, regardless of the quality of the story telling, the they ended up liking it. Just a theory…
As for the Gedo Rinne Tensei, it certainly is a cool jutsu. That doesn’t mean that Kishi using it to resurrect the entire village wasn’t a complete cop out.
Naruto had already proved that he could change people prior to this arc. The arc may have reinforced the notion, but it didn’t prove it. As for Jiraiya, his impact on Naruto was what made Jiraiya’s life meaningful to the Nin world.
Your argument about Tsunade’s coma is the best I’ve read. It’s well thought out. But Kishi could have easily made the issue go away with one panel showing Kakashi’s soul being ripped out.
The village acknowledging Naruto was good, but so far it hasn’t translated into Naruto being treated as a hero…and more importantly as a leader.
“The village acknowledging Naruto was good, but so far it hasn’t translated into Naruto being treated as a hero…and more importantly as a leader.” – Yeah, that’s right, that scene of appreciation was very short.
No need to excuse yourself, I found it cool to be asked such a thing, and I will write my Juubi’s eyes theory today, I think.
As for your theory of most of the people trying so desperately to like the arc –
well, that would definitely not fit to me
. I came up with something last night I wanted to ask you: What kind of end would YOU have preferred instead of Gedo? I agree that SOME characters could have died, but only the characters nobody knows anyway
, normal citizens. But would you really prefer KAKASHI DEAD??? NO way! I think you’ve gotta see this arc from the story teller “I want to tell something really really REALLY cool, a real big fight, the biggest ever, dramatic, history making” side. In order to do something like that without killing a Kakashi character, it was almost inevitable to do a “reset button” no jutsu at the end. My boyfriend said this to me: “If Nagato would have destroyed only one house and a wall, it would not have been that dramatic”. (he’s very sarcastic, of course the buildings should be a metaphor for the people of Konoha that were attacked)
Antoher thing to the Tsunade issue: You wrote “completely deplete her chakra reserve before Negato could infuse her with some of his”
Am I correct that you assume that Gedo Rinne simply infused everybody with chakra? If so: why? I think that’s wrong. Or how could restoring chakra bring Fukasaku back to life who was stabbed by a sword? Of course, there is no explanation on what Gedo REALLY does, but I think that it “simply” revives people. This definition would suit to everything: Kakashi & Fukasaku revived (really dead), Tsunade not revived (not dead).
Ok, I’m going to translate my Juubi’s eyes theory now!
@aeris85- When the Negato arc ended there was a fairly intense debate on IRA about the ending. It was closely split between those who liked the arc and those who didn’t. Several of the people who liked the arc asked the same question you just asked, “How would you have ended the arc?” At the time I actually took them up on their challenge and wrote an outline for how a better arc (in my view) could have unfolded. The posts with those debates have since been deleted so I can’t direct you to them to read. (Shifts eyes toward Jeremiah, wonders why he deleted those blogs) As I noted in a comment above, the arc could have gone in a number of directions. Negato could have lived or died; Naruto could have won or been captured; Kakashi could have lived or died. As long as the end wasn’t accomplished with a cheap writer’s device it would have been better.
Would I have preferred for Kakashi to live? Sure, but by his own hand, not via a rewind button. In my mind it further eroded his standing in the manga.
As for the buildings being a metaphor for the people of Konoha, Kishi pulled a bit of a reset there also. Yamato used his Mokuton technique to rebuild much of the buildings in the blink of an eye…And Tazuna shows up out of nowhere, WTF. Hmmm, well at least Kishi is being consistent.
As for Tsunade, as I said, your explanation is the best I’ve seen. However, look at the panels in my post where Gedo is reviving the “dead.” There’s just a bolt of some kind hitting the victims in the chakra center. There’s no soul shown going back into them. By contrast, when Human path ripped his victims’ souls from their bodies, Kishi drew the soul being removed. If souls were the key to revival, Kishi didn’t make it clear.
I don’t think that the key to revival were souls, either. As you pointed out, we already know how souls would have looked like. So I think the revival works by life energy, Nagato split up his life energy, giving it to every dead person he attacked. That’s also the reason why he died, he had no more.
PS: Is it proved that the belly is the chakra center? As for you example pics of the bolt, it could also be that the bolt hits were the person is wounded. That would fit for Fukasaku to begin with.
We’ll have to agree to disagree on the whole revival thing.
As for the chakra center, see below.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/79/10/
Bushy Brow’s explanation of the chakra system during the Chunin exams calls it the inner coils system.
Everyone DOES realize that after ALL of the build-up leading to the “Pain arc ending” that in the span of ONE chapter:
1) Nagato does a 180 and changes sides
Team Hawk is shown with there plans of Destroying Konoha about to be set in motion.
2) Nagato commits suicide
3) Kakashi has a conversation with his father
4) Kakashi, Shizune, Fukusaku and other ninjas are revived
5) Nagato and Naruto are declared The “Children of Destiny”
6) Konan gives Naruto cheap imitation flowers that will be the only reminder that this arc ever happened.
7) Konan, Nagato, and Yahiko are “deleted” from the manga never to be heard of again.
Wasnt this chapter just a little too crowded? The chapter should have been split into “at least” two chapters to cover all of these points but it was rushed to say the least.
The next chappter “A joyful Village” shows some people grateful for Naruto and then a few chapters later….BAM…. its like nothing ever happened. It really annoyed me.
Yeah… next to nothing achieved. Even Kakashi talking to the White Fang produced absolutely nothing…
*cries in corner in pure disappointed*